Jump to content

Your most controversial music opinions


CaledonianGonzo
 Share

Recommended Posts

Just now, Matt42 said:

But when was the last time we had someone get genuinely big and innovative in the metal scene? I can’t think of a single bank who has had a rise to popularity like the old dogs did back in their day. The concept of a new metal band rising to stadium stardom feels light years away.

That’s down to history and influence. Most stadium rock bands are ancient too. in fact even Eminem, who is more or less completely irrelevant in today’s hip hop, outsells the shit out of any other rapper.

But yeah, as @jump points out, the metal scene isn’t just who goes to massive gigs. It’s who goes to shitty underground metal bars on a Tuesday night. If you checked one out, you might be surprised that the people there look normal and like bands who aren’t the big four of thrash. 😁

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, dentalplan said:

If you checked one out, you might be surprised that the people there look normal and like bands who aren’t the big four of thrash. 😁

I saw Ghost at Wembley and not once did I see anyone wearing any of The Big 4 band shirts. I mostly saw Gojia, Parkway Drive, Volbeat and a few others. I only noticed as I was wearing an Interrupters hoodie and people kept coming up to me say they are fans too and loved them at Hellfest so I got curious to what other band merch people were wearing.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

But when was the last time we had someone get genuinely big and innovative in the metal scene? I can’t think of a single bank who has had a rise to popularity like the old dogs did back in their day. The concept of a new metal band rising to stadium stardom feels light years away.

So what? Stadium rock is not the be all and end all of a music scene. Punk rock rarely produced any stadium bands but remains one of the most influential music scenes ever. Just cos metal hasn't produced a massive band for a while, doesn't mean the scene is dead!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It feels like there's a bit of revisionist history going on. Metallica, Iron Maiden, AC/DC etc didn't become stadium fillers on their first album it was several albums and years later that they got to that point. Slipknot and Rammstein have just moved from arenas to those big shows in this country and there will be others at some point.

I think it's bad looking at Download as the face of metal since everyone complains about how bad their bookings are with the repeats of Def Leppard headlining, not getting Bring Me when they were shit hot, haven't booked acts like Ghost, Architects, Slaves, A Perfect Circle etc in big spots/at all and just generally not having their finger on the pulse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Matt42 said:

But when was the last time we had someone get genuinely big and innovative in the metal scene? I can’t think of a single bank who has had a rise to popularity like the old dogs did back in their day. The concept of a new metal band rising to stadium stardom feels light years away.


No, we won’t have a band as big as Metallica, Maiden or Sabbath again but that’s not what you said.

A band being as big as ‘the old dogs back in the day who rise to stadium superstardom’ is a totally different point to ‘metal being a genre that is genuinely on the way out’, which is what you posted originally.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Matt42 said:

Does download genuinely reach 80k attendees still? Either way, it’s a speck on the main population of festival attendees.

 

That’s pretty dismissive. It’s like calling dance music a speck because of Creamfields or dismissing rap/hip hop on the basis of Wireless…

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

That’s pretty dismissive. It’s like calling dance music a speck because of Creamfields or dismissing rap/hip hop on the basis of Wireless…

Yeah I understand that - but I would say that there is a huge chunk of people attending music festivals etc that don’t engage with dance music. Dance acts are still confined to relatively small stages on major festivals and a big festival booking is probably the biggest gig a DJ can get.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Matt42 said:

Yeah I understand that - but I would say that there is a huge chunk of people attending music festivals etc that don’t engage with dance music. Dance acts are still confined to relatively small stages on major festivals and a big festival booking is probably the biggest gig a DJ can get.

You're not arguing that dance music is on its way out too are you?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

You're not arguing that dance music is on its way out too are you?

No not at all. But what I will say is dance music never reached the highs of popularity that metal did. Dance music has maintained a similar level of popularity throughout - with new generations discovering it and keeping it a float.

My view is that metal doesn’t have the same cycle going for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be fair to Matt, I do wonder if metal is something of a cultural dead-end. We’ve obviously had hard rock groups for nearly 60 years, and they’ve evolved into various styles/genres, metal being just one. I don’t see any of the current metal groups making the jump into mainstream acceptance - and by that I mean popular outside of the metal scene; headlining Glastonbury, stadiums and the like.

In fact, it’s hard to pinpoint any guitar bands that look likely to get to that level. Yes, there are some that headline smaller festivals, or do co-headlining slots, but I don’t see anyone becoming the next Oasis, or Guns ‘n’ Roses etc. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, henry bear said:

To be fair to Matt, I do wonder if metal is something of a cultural dead-end. We’ve obviously had hard rock groups for nearly 60 years, and they’ve evolved into various styles/genres, metal being just one. I don’t see any of the current metal groups making the jump into mainstream acceptance - and by that I mean popular outside of the metal scene; headlining Glastonbury, stadiums and the like.

In fact, it’s hard to pinpoint any guitar bands that look likely to get to that level. Yes, there are some that headline smaller festivals, or do co-headlining slots, but I don’t see anyone becoming the next Oasis, or Guns ‘n’ Roses etc. 

We will have another band (of any genre) rise up to that level soon. It just seems like metal / rock / punk / indie whatever has to die a complete death before it comes. We’ve seen a few bands try, the 1975, Mumford & Sons, Royal Blood etc - but I think the market has failed them.

I think the next big band will come from a complete revival of the rock genre. Aka - at a point where a band making straight up rock sounds fresh.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, henry bear said:

To be fair to Matt, I do wonder if metal is something of a cultural dead-end. We’ve obviously had hard rock groups for nearly 60 years, and they’ve evolved into various styles/genres, metal being just one. I don’t see any of the current metal groups making the jump into mainstream acceptance - and by that I mean popular outside of the metal scene; headlining Glastonbury, stadiums and the like.

In fact, it’s hard to pinpoint any guitar bands that look likely to get to that level. Yes, there are some that headline smaller festivals, or do co-headlining slots, but I don’t see anyone becoming the next Oasis, or Guns ‘n’ Roses etc. 

Yeah it’s not just metal that’s on its arse in the mainstream - rock acts altogether are struggling to make that big jump these days. It’s just more obvious with metal as it’s at the more abrasive end of the spectrum, so much so that it’s impressive that some of the bands who made it back in the day actually did make it.

I’m sure guitar bands (and in turn, some semblance of metal) will have its day again at some point, and although we might not get another Metallica or Maiden any time soon, there are still bands making waves in the metal scene, even if they’re not the household names they might’ve been twenty years ago. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I mean is - one day a totally new band is going to come onto the scene with a very strong debut album which shoots them up the ladder. An AM style debut. None of the bands currently active right now are going to cut it. This new band will overtake them all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dare I say it but looking at how Maneskin have erupted it does give me faith that a band can emerge in today’s era. The only caveat is that maneskin obviously were given a lot of help (and backed heavily) to reach it.

It won’t be until a band is given the attention from their label like what Billie was given or O Rod that we will see a new player. If labels had a bit more faith in rock we might see it happen - but it won’t be until rock is something fresh again.

Edited by Matt42
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

We will have another band (of any genre) rise up to that level soon. It just seems like metal / rock / punk / indie whatever has to die a complete death before it comes. We’ve seen a few bands try, the 1975, Mumford & Sons, Royal Blood etc - but I think the market has failed them.

I think the next big band will come from a complete revival of the rock genre. Aka - at a point where a band making straight up rock sounds fresh.

You’re writing The 1975 and Royal Blood off abit quick aren’t you? No wonder bands aren’t getting bigger if people are declaring them failures as soon as they are getting going just to jump to the next big thing which is apparently Maneskin now. lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, jump said:

You’re writing The 1975 and Royal Blood off abit quick aren’t you? No wonder bands aren’t getting bigger if people are declaring them failures as soon as they are getting going just to jump to the next big thing which is apparently Maneskin now. lol

Not saying they are failures but I think the market has changed a bit. Bands would slowly build their way up lineups - but now I think there is a shorter window of opportunity to make it as a bona fide headliner. It’s like the usual Foals / Biffy Clyro debate where people thought they’d become headliners because they’d hung around a bit. It doesn’t seem to work like that anymore. If your career isn’t on a solid upward trajectory by album 2 the best you can hope for is a mid-tier festival headline slot and a decent slot at glasto.

Edited by Matt42
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Not saying they are failures but I think the market has changed a bit. Bands would slowly build their way up lineups - but now I think there is a shorter window of opportunity to make it as a bona fide headliner. It’s like the usual Foals / Biffy Clyro debate where people thought they’d become headliners because they’d hung around a bit. It doesn’t seem to work like that anymore. If your career isn’t on a solid upward trajectory by album 2 the best you can hope for is a mid-tier festival headline slot and a decent slot at glasto.

I mean Biffy have headlined R&L 3 times, booked to headline Download twice, IOW, Sonisphere and few overseas ones, they are headliners but just not at Glasto. If we’re are going by the criteria of they are only big if they are headlining Glasto then we can’t include Guns n Roses or Iron Maiden either.

In any case expecting something as counter-culture as metal to be mainstream is a big ask. Even when everyone was Limp Bizkiting they were not playing stadiums and didn’t appeal to a lot of metalheads.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The dance Vs metal size debate is pretty interesting and says a lot about how mega acts are increasingly a thing of the past. Although I've not checked that deeply, I'd say it's a pretty fair bet that no dance acts have sold anything like as many records as the likes of Metallica or AC/DC.

Moving down, even Slayer have sold as many as Moby. Having said that, there are anomalies, David Guetta has sold more than both.

But dance music has a reach way beyond the big artists, it's the sheer amount of music being produced and consumed where dance music is king. At Glastonbury, we have Silver Hayes, The Glade, Arcadia, Block 9 and Shangri La, all containing multiple dance music venues, plus all the dance at The Park and the various bars. I know Glastonbury is huge, but it's not even a dance festival as such. Metal, even at its peak has never been anywhere near as pervasive as dance - and for the most part, the music you hear in all those venues has been produced by a massive variety of artists - it's the long tail where dance wins.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, jump said:

You’re writing The 1975 and Royal Blood off abit quick aren’t you? No wonder bands aren’t getting bigger if people are declaring them failures as soon as they are getting going just to jump to the next big thing which is apparently Maneskin now. lol

If you don't think Maneskin are big, have a go at the "guess how many monthly listeners they have on spotify" game.

I did. And I was surprised.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, maelzoid said:

If you don't think Maneskin are big, have a go at the "guess how many monthly listeners they have on spotify" game.

I did. And I was surprised.

Big and actually big are two different things, they are gonna be like The Darkness who are hot for a sec and then forgotten about as quickly. Like fuck are they the saviours of rock music.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, maelzoid said:

If you don't think Maneskin are big, have a go at the "guess how many monthly listeners they have on spotify" game.

I did. And I was surprised.

This feels like a good game for the meet next year:

A price is right higher/lower style game where people have to guess which band is bigger based on their SPotify numbers...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, jump said:

Big and actually big are two different things, they are gonna be like The Darkness who are hot for a sec and then forgotten about as quickly. Like fuck are they the saviours of rock music.

You could well be right.

But as of today, their monthly listener numbers are bigger than Taylor, Kendrick, Coldplay, Macca. Huge. 

I'm not saying that this translates into real cultural impact or a long career. And actually listening to their latest (I wanna be your slave) it doesn't really rock, it sounds more like a standard pop song with slightly more guitars.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, maelzoid said:

You could well be right.

But as of today, their monthly listener numbers are bigger than Taylor, Kendrick, Coldplay, Macca. Huge. 

I'm not saying that this translates into real cultural impact or a long career. And actually listening to their latest (I wanna be your slave) it doesn't really rock, it sounds more like a standard pop song with slightly more guitars.

Maneskin actually played my local venue a few months before covid and it only holds 300 people, I don't think they even sold it out. I personally hate the "but they are big on Spotify argument", there's so many Soundcloud rappers who play small venues despite having millions of listeners from around the world and half the time it's people who listen these acts because they are on editorial playlists rather than people actually listening to an album.

I actually find it quite depressing we are viewing music as they are only culturally relevant if they are playing stadiums or have big Spotify numbers. There're so many household names who have legit changed music who were never stadiums bands. Rock and especially metal isn't meant to be you and your parents listening to someone because they won Eurovision or Karen in HR has put them on in the office for casual background music, it's meant to be counter culture with the old timers not getting why you're listening to The Sex Pistols, Marilyn Manson, My Chemical Romance or whoever it was growing up for you rather than worrying about when they will headline Glasto or will they make it to the latest gym playlist on Spotify.

  • Upvote 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...