Simsy Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Ozanne said: What would get votes then, free cake? Put something in the manifesto about massive tax cuts for newspaper owners & less regulation of the press. Watch the Sun, Mail, Express etc convince their readers that this is the party they should vote for. Obviously whoever wins the election doesn't have to follow through on all their manifesto promises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattiloy Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 14 hours ago, maelzoid said: I've been making this same point to friends. There is only one person who has won a general election who is not a Tory in the last 40 years (11 elections): Tony Blair. This country is more right wing than many people here would like it to be, me included. I think if Labour want to lead this country, they have to lean to the centre. Candidates as far to the left as Corbyn simply will not get elected. polling on single economic issues like rail, health, equality all shows that left wing policies are more popular. the trouble is you're never going to get out of the gate if you can't convince even all the MPs of the major 'left wing' party to back a slate which includes promises on those issues. you're fighting an uphill battle as it is when the media has spent decades deriding the credibility of 'loony left' policies and then when you finally have a leadership which puts forward a manifesto containing proper left wing policies half of the MPs immediately call a vote of no confidence and spend the next years undermining the credibility of the leadership and the policy positions as fantasy, as 'loony left'. it is utterly self defeating. and it is defeatist and pathetic to simply accept our fate as this never progressive country, which isn't actually true, and just bend over and take it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiochicken Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 21 minutes ago, mattiloy said: polling on single economic issues like rail, health, equality all shows that left wing policies are more popular. the trouble is you're never going to get out of the gate if you can't convince even all the MPs of the major 'left wing' party to back a slate which includes promises on those issues. you're fighting an uphill battle as it is when the media has spent decades deriding the credibility of 'loony left' policies and then when you finally have a leadership which puts forward a manifesto containing proper left wing policies half of the MPs immediately call a vote of no confidence and spend the next years undermining the credibility of the leadership and the policy positions as fantasy, as 'loony left'. it is utterly self defeating. and it is defeatist and pathetic to simply accept our fate as this never progressive country, which isn't actually true, and just bend over and take it. All those things are simply entry criteria... MPs who don’t agree with you, a media that’s against you etc. etc. You have to win with the cards you’re dealt not the cards you want to be dealt. Politics is messy, and “individual policies poll well” is nowhere near enough on its own. Face this reality and compromise becomes the least worst option for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozanne Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Simsy said: Put something in the manifesto about massive tax cuts for newspaper owners & less regulation of the press. Watch the Sun, Mail, Express etc convince their readers that this is the party they should vote for. Obviously whoever wins the election doesn't have to follow through on all their manifesto promises. So no free cake? 😞 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattiloy Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Radiochicken said: All those things are simply entry criteria... MPs who don’t agree with you, Not so, the toxic legacy of new labour left the PLP full of centrist/right wing MPs. Sadly Corbyn tried to accommodate them and they stabbed him in the back. It looks a lot like Starmer is one of their lot after all and is not prepared to allow the left to continue growing their influence. The result could well be fewer left candidates and more centre/right candidates at the next election. At which point Starmer would struggle to get a truly progressive manifesto through even if he wanted to and gets a majority, particularly with the likes of wes streeting in ministerial positions. Edited December 5, 2020 by mattiloy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakeyboi135 Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 5 hours ago, Ozanne said: What would get votes then, free cake? Cake or death? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 1 hour ago, mattiloy said: Not so, the toxic legacy of new labour left the PLP full of centrist/right wing MPs. Sadly Corbyn tried to accommodate them and they stabbed him in the back. It looks a lot like Starmer is one of their lot after all and is not prepared to allow the left to continue growing their influence. The result could well be fewer left candidates and more centre/right candidates at the next election. At which point Starmer would struggle to get a truly progressive manifesto through even if he wanted to and gets a majority, particularly with the likes of wes streeting in ministerial positions. People only started thinking Starmer was right wing when he kicked out Long Bailey showing he was going to actually do something about all the jew hate in labour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozanne Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 19 minutes ago, Jakeyboi135 said: Cake or death? Odd choice for a referendum 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfool01 Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simsy Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 38 minutes ago, Ozanne said: Odd choice for a referendum 😉 Annoying when only 48% vote for cake, so we all have to die. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattiloy Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 1 hour ago, steviewevie said: People only started thinking Starmer was right wing when he kicked out Long Bailey showing he was going to actually do something about all the jew hate in labour. Do you think honestly think the likes of Long Bailey, Corbyn, the lady below hate jews? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 1 minute ago, mattiloy said: Do you think honestly think the likes of Long Bailey, Corbyn, the lady below hate jews? I don't know...I'm just saying that was when Starmer was perceived to have shifted to the right.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattiloy Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, steviewevie said: I don't know...I'm just saying that was when Starmer was perceived to have shifted to the right.... It didn’t help but his pick of arch Blairite David Evans as general secretary + shadow cabinet appointments already leant in that direction. His invitation to anybody who thinks the scale of AS was exaggerated to leave the party and suspending those who voice support for Corbyn in the party. Nothing right wing about that but a clear pattern of marginalising and attacking the left and undermining party democracy which doesnt give you much hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 14 hours ago, mattiloy said: Do you think honestly think the likes of Long Bailey, Corbyn, .... hate jews? Nope. It's pretty clear what Wrong Daily and Corbyn hate. Which is to admit they were in the wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 14 hours ago, mattiloy said: Nothing right wing about that but a clear pattern of marginalising and attacking the left and undermining party democracy which doesnt give you much hope. depends what the hope is that you have. It probably gives Labour more hope of being elected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zahidf Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 Ha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloorFiller Posted December 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 19 minutes ago, zahidf said: Ha Surprised it took this long for him to get it. Has seemed inevitable for a long time. Can’t be many of Trump’s team left now who haven’t had it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfool01 Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 (edited) Guillianni is a prime candidate for more severe illness isn’t he ... maybe the White House had been trying to get herd immunity?! and what weird twitter name is that ?! Edited December 6, 2020 by crazyfool1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcshed Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 1 hour ago, crazyfool1 said: and what weird twitter name is that ?! Read some Kurt Vonnegut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted December 11, 2020 Report Share Posted December 11, 2020 so Loser Donny is literally killing people now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero000 Posted December 11, 2020 Report Share Posted December 11, 2020 9 minutes ago, eFestivals said: so Loser Donny is literally killing people now. The executions? Awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maelzoid Posted December 11, 2020 Report Share Posted December 11, 2020 He's been killing people for a while. The Kurds abandoned by departing US troops. 3000+ people a day due to his poor Covid response. That's more than a 9/11 every single day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanoL Posted December 11, 2020 Report Share Posted December 11, 2020 The fundamental problem is that nationwide spending and national debt has been compared to a credit card, and this notion has been hammered home over and over by both Tory and Labour politicians. So whenever a party comes up with a policy that is going to vastly improve everyone's lives, people immediately ask "how will we pay for it?". And unless there's clear tax rises that seem to counteract it, people don't believe it will happen. Or they believe they will be made to pay for it personally, that the government will up the basic tax rate from 20% to 40% because it's the only way to pay for all of this, and therefore they will go broke. That's not how it works, but it's a long, hard road to realigning peoples thought processes to see spending on a country as an investment. It's like buying shares in something that then succeeds and pays you back with dividends. Much as I know we like Starmer, he but also Corbyn are missing a huge trick here. Because Sunak is outright demonstrating, right now, with furlough and all that, that that's not how it works. They should be jumping on that, and showering it with praise, talking about it being an investment in our people and our economy because we know they will succeed when things are back to normal. But they haven't - they've attacked it as not enough (which to be fair, it isn't) and the Tories will use it as another excuse to bring back austerity. (There's also the argument that we're already in a planned economy, and that at this point it can't be untangled, so instead we need to demonstrate how the Tories aren't in favour of the free market at all, that they plan the economy just as much as any socialist party would - they just plan it for the benefit of the few, whereas Labour would plan it for the benefit of the many) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfool01 Posted December 11, 2020 Report Share Posted December 11, 2020 5 hours ago, eFestivals said: so Loser Donny is literally killing people now. And today he tweets this !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenelk Posted December 11, 2020 Report Share Posted December 11, 2020 (edited) 50 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said: And today he tweets this !! Wow I didn't see him trying for the misunderstood pacifist look. Though saying that, the religious right have allowed themselves to be convinced by him that he is a man of god, whereas Biden, a quietly religious man, is painted as the anti-christ Edited December 11, 2020 by Greenelk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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