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Do you think Glastonbury 2021 will go ahead? 2.0


Do you think Glastonbury 2021 will go ahead? 2.0  

351 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think Glastonbury 2021 will go ahead? 2.0

    • Yes, and it will be business as usual.
      5
    • Yes, with some minor requirements (hygiene warnings, extra hand gel).
      51
    • Yes, with some moderate/major requirements (face masks, distancing, temperature checks, testing).
      47
    • No, Coronavirus will still be too prevalent and mass gatherings will still be banned.
      121
    • No, Coronavirus will still be too much of a risk and the organisers will choose not to go ahead.
      81
    • No, for another reason.
      7
    • I can't even guess.
      39


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3 minutes ago, Lycra said:

I suppose the guidance sets out a framework for organisers but all it amounts to is formalizing a lot of what is already known. Which is organisers must demonstrate they meet all prevailing covid control measures whatever they be and whenever implemented for an event to go head. In recognising very early on that prevailing control measures (e.g. social distancing) will impact on event economic viability it's a simple means for government to say "nah, it's not happening mate"

Succinctly put......I agree.

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Michael's always optimistic, I'm half surprised he didn't say G2020 was the best one yet...

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Glastonbury will be going ahead as normal. It won’t work if there’s any restrictions.    What may happen is that they treat the festival as a holiday destination and you’ll be advised to isolat

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19 minutes ago, Copperface said:

It still remains that the relevant minister can restrict or ban certain events or types of events simply by issuing a direction. That won't change in March and the Regs will continue. 

I've not said different. It's *always* the case that any govt is able to override anything devolved downwards if it wants (and has the votes to, if it needs a vote).

What I have said is that the govt have made clear that the decision is with LAs. Which is reinforced in those links you provided.

22 minutes ago, Copperface said:

"and yet when Glastonbury's whole existence was under threat? The relevant LA made the call." - still haven't clarified what this bit was about. I thought Glastonbury took the decision themselves after consultation and advice.

that was a reference to long-ago licencing issues, where central govt declined to get involved when if 'important national event govt should have a say in' applied it would have done.

24 minutes ago, Copperface said:

I think the main point is that the government will probably leave a decision to a local authority in most cases (like the recent cancelled 'Fairy Festival; in the New Forest - cancelled by the LA) as its's not currently contentious in the current circumstances and not in the same league in terms of size and reputation as Glastonbury.

I think the Government would do the same in Glastonbury's case, but only if it agreed with the ultimate decision.

Good to see you agreeing with what I've explicitly said to you already and you've been arguing against. :) 

Meanwhile, there's little reason to see why the govt would get involved in anything about the Glastonbury decision. The LA is more than competent to make the right decision against the guidance/rules. 

The govt don't care about people flying in (subject to existing rules) in much greater numbers than Glastonbury will cause, so won't care about people flying in specifically for Glastonbury. Etc, etc etc.

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26 minutes ago, Lycra said:

In recognising very early on that prevailing control measures (e.g. social distancing) will impact on event economic viability it's a simple means for government to say "nah, it's not happening mate"

but that's the same rule as for everything, at the moment. It's not the govt getting involved in a decision about whether any specific festival can go ahead.

Glastonbury will need to satisfy the LA (and not the govt) that it meets the conditions that are in place at the time the festival will be happening, else the LA can pull the licence. 

It's nothing the govt needs to get involved with.

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41 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

but that's the same rule as for everything, at the moment. It's not the govt getting involved in a decision about whether any specific festival can go ahead.

Glastonbury will need to satisfy the LA (and not the govt) that it meets the conditions that are in place at the time the festival will be happening, else the LA can pull the licence. 

It's nothing the govt needs to get involved with.

But the government are involved as the document is a collaboration between the industry and the DCMS. In establishing a framework of covid compliance it asks organisers to demonstrate they can meet the prevailing covid rules, which are subject to change at any given time, and provides a tick list for LA by which to measure compliance. Currently for organisers the biggest issue is social distancing as this impacts directly on the economic viability of an event. 

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13 minutes ago, Lycra said:

But the government are involved as the document is a collaboration between the industry and the DCMS. In establishing a framework of covid compliance it asks organisers to demonstrate they can meet the prevailing covid rules, which are subject to change at any given time, and provides a tick list for LA by which to measure compliance. Currently for organisers the biggest issue is social distancing as this impacts directly on the economic viability of an event. 

Yep, the govt issued the guidelines, and then leaves the rest up to the LA. The govt won't get involved any further.

And yes, there's plenty in the guidelines which currently make festivals unviable, but there's good reasons* to think the guidelines will be much more relaxed by the time summer comes around. 

* That's with fingers crossed that events happen to a particular timeline, of course. But that's not an impossible timeline.

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1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

but that's the same rule as for everything, at the moment. It's not the govt getting involved in a decision about whether any specific festival can go ahead.

Glastonbury will need to satisfy the LA (and not the govt) that it meets the conditions that are in place at the time the festival will be happening, else the LA can pull the licence. 

It's nothing the govt needs to get involved with.

Admittedly this was posted when we were in that weird time when everyone was screaming for a lockdown and pubs to close etc, and all the govt would do was 'advise' people not to go to the pub (remember those days?) but I said this on 12th March and you appear to have altered course....I would say that this was only relevant now if we were in the same situation again in the future - where the government were abrogating responsibility forcing the LA to make a decision. But with the accepted legal framework now in place things have changed.

https://www.efestivals.co.uk/forums/topic/233492-will-coronavirus-lead-to-the-cancellation-of-glastonbury/?do=findComment&comment=5908580

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2 minutes ago, Copperface said:

but I said this on 12th March and you appear to have altered course

On 12th March it was one situation.
On 23rd March it was another situation.
And since July/August it's been the current situation, based on the DCMS guidelines, with the go-ahead (or not) left to the LA to decide.

 

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2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

On 12th March it was one situation.
On 23rd March it was another situation.
And since July/August it's been the current situation, based on the DCMS guidelines, with the go-ahead (or not) left to the LA to decide.

 

I've lost track of what we were debating.........................

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1 minute ago, Copperface said:

I've lost track of what we were debating.........................

I started off saying the decision was the LAs to make. You said it wasn't.

And now here we are. :) 

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2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I started off saying the decision was the LAs to make. You said it wasn't.

And now here we are. :) 

Ah yes.

I'd partially agree with that but only if the Government was in full agreement and subject to nationally set legal frameworks - the ultimate decision in any dispute would be made by the Minister . I think that would only become relevant if the LA wanted to restrict but the Govt were OK with it taking place. They can place all responsibility on the LA. Conversely, if the LA wanted to open but the Govt were against that then it's not the LA's decision to make.  

The key is that both the LA and the minister have powers to restrict, and ministerial directives trump the LA powers.

I was also pointing out that you said the Regs expire in March - they don't  - they are valid for two years and that the PHCDA 84 also contains most of the relevant powers.

The point about travelling etc is a bit of a red herring, but Glastonbury is a gathering, as is the Pilton Party. But clearly, they are very different. I would suggest the LA might have more confidence in prohibiting the PP than Glastonbury in any contentious times. It's an easy decision to make if national guidelines restrict gatherings but if there was any divergence of opinion between the two, the LA loses. But basically the LA has to follow the Govts legally set framework. They cannot make a decision unilaterally to diverge from that.

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I started off saying the decision was the LAs to make. You said it wasn't.

And now here we are. :) 

In a nutshell the decision is being pushed down to the organisers with the LA acting as policeman. Sometime before it gets fans all excited by asking for the balance payment GF will be forced to ask itself "Can we meet the covid regulations as they stand and how do we meet them if they change" In the end there may be to many obstacles to overcome.

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4 minutes ago, Copperface said:

I'd partially agree with that but only if the Government was in full agreement and subject to nationally set legal frameworks

I've never suggested that festivals would operate outside of any guidelines, i kept mentioning the guidelines.

6 minutes ago, Copperface said:

the ultimate decision in any dispute would be made by the Minister

or the courts perhaps. But yeah. Same as it always is, nothing different here to the normal. The govt is *always* able to step in if it wants to.

But in regard to covid (after the issuing of the guidelines) they've made it specific, with someone (Johnson, was it? I forget) confirming in the HoC that the final decision is with the LAs.

There is absolutely no reason to think the govt is going to change that stance.

The guidance itself is hugely likely to change at some point (when we can only guess), but that's an assumption everyone is working to.

10 minutes ago, Copperface said:

The key is that both the LA and the minister have powers to restrict, and ministerial directives trump the LA powers.

who knew that local govt is subservient to national govt? :P 

11 minutes ago, Copperface said:

But basically the LA has to follow the Govts legally set framework. They cannot make a decision unilaterally to diverge from that.

same as it ever was.

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12 minutes ago, Lycra said:

In a nutshell the decision is being pushed down to the organisers with the LA acting as policeman. Sometime before it gets fans all excited by asking for the balance payment GF will be forced to ask itself "Can we meet the covid regulations as they stand and how do we meet them if they change" In the end there may be to many obstacles to overcome.

spot on.

Although it's a reasonable assumption that the covid requirements are likely to be downgraded rather than upgraded from what they are now.

When they downgrade is a matter of speculation, but there's plenty of indicators that the date in mind currently for the govt is end of March. It'll of course depend how the situation pans out from now.

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42 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

spot on.

Although it's a reasonable assumption that the covid requirements are likely to be downgraded rather than upgraded from what they are now.

When they downgrade is a matter of speculation, but there's plenty of indicators that the date in mind currently for the govt is end of March. It'll of course depend how the situation pans out from now.

Problem is it's all going the wrong way. When you actualize how little time there is between now and March an awful lot has got to change. Five months after lockdown we were still social distancing with no mass gatherings allowed at gigs, football, rugby, horse racing, weddings, pubs etc. In another 5 months it will be March and we could very well be in the same situation. Without a significant improvement early on next year I'm leaning towards cancellation, maybe called as early as January. If it is indeed cancelled I would not be totally surprised if it came with a balance refund/ticket cancellation too. There's only so long they can hang on to your money and the numbers who've changed their plans will increase, viz: changing social circle, break-ups, babies, exams, changed mind, grumpy spouse/partner, old age, infirmity, death etc etc.....Applies to bands too

Could just too it up and start again 

Edited by Lycra
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If new cases/deaths start to go down before Christmas, then I think we can expect them to increase again in Jan/Feb post Christmas after everyone decides they're not going to bother with social distancing. 

The way the new cases is fluctuating makes it very hard to predict whether it will be a yay or nay for the festival. 

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10 minutes ago, Tartan_Glasto said:

If new cases/deaths start to go down before Christmas, then I think we can expect them to increase again in Jan/Feb post Christmas after everyone decides they're not going to bother with social distancing. 

The way the new cases is fluctuating makes it very hard to predict whether it will be a yay or nay for the festival. 

New cases aren't fluctuating that much. They are behaving in the manner predicted by many modellers when that factored in autumn/winter, reduced social distancing, opening up pubs/restaurants etc.

Edited by Lycra
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I am not saying it will never happen again, as obviously it will at some point - but it is kind of hard to picture it currently, 100k people camping on top of each other, strangers hugging etc

Ah God feeling very bleak about things today

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My wife has been interviewing for learning support assistant jobs at schools. I’ve said, if she’s offered a job, she should tell them about Glastonbury as it’s a pre-booked holiday (hoping it goes ahead). Do you reckon that’s the best option rather than her putting her ticket back in the pile?

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25 minutes ago, Redwinevino said:

I am not saying it will never happen again, as obviously it will at some point - but it is kind of hard to picture it currently, 100k people camping on top of each other, strangers hugging etc

Ah God feeling very bleak about things today

Glastonbury 2015 Friday night me and a mate got caught in an awful crush at about 1-2am down by the Shangri-La Hell stage (or whatever it was called that year).  We were trying to just pass through, but something had just finished on the stage so people were trying to leave, people were trying to get in for the next act and then people were going both ways trying to pass through plus there was a bar and food stall nearby.

Given the state most people were in with their eyeballs rolling all over the place it was nearly a disaster but thankfully security/stewards stepped in and got it sorted.  I just can't imagine lots of people being allowed that close to each other in 8 months time. 

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been reading through this thread while eating lunch ... can i just ask one question.

can we all go to a field in Pilton and get absolutely  shite faced to some banging good tunes ...... PLEASE ..!!!!

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2 hours ago, Tartan_Glasto said:

If new cases/deaths start to go down before Christmas, then I think we can expect them to increase again in Jan/Feb post Christmas after everyone decides they're not going to bother with social distancing. 

The way the new cases is fluctuating makes it very hard to predict whether it will be a yay or nay for the festival. 

I’m having a positive day today ... going 60/40 it’s happening 

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1 hour ago, Ryan1984 said:

My wife has been interviewing for learning support assistant jobs at schools. I’ve said, if she’s offered a job, she should tell them about Glastonbury as it’s a pre-booked holiday (hoping it goes ahead). Do you reckon that’s the best option rather than her putting her ticket back in the pile?

You're right to discuss it when they make the offer not during the interview. No need to give them reasons to give the job to someone else.

Unless they specifically ask, in which case don't lie.

I reckon the earlier you tell them the easier it will be to get time off, they can plan more if you tell them months ahead.

Edited by Leyrulion
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1 hour ago, crazyfool1 said:

I’m having a positive day today ... going 60/40 it’s happening 


same here. Earlier this week everything was looking bleak and I just couldn’t see any light at the end of the tunnel.

 

Feeling more positive today and watching this conference with Boris about quick testing, it ties in with the things Melvin was talking about for R&L, and what friends who work for a few leading venues around the capital have said. 
 

whether that means Glasto happens or not, I don’t know, that’s a different beast - But I’m feeling more positive we’ll be at gigs next spring and perhaps even those magical fields in June. 

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