Kasabian//Tom Meighan

[gigpusher]

19 minutes ago, Quark said:

Interesting point, and yeah I prob did misunderstand your point a bit - my bad. Language is an important thing, so see where you're going.

Absolutely there is a desire to be on the right side of history, and we've seen that in the BLM movement with firms falling over themselves to "do the right thing". I think there's an element of "if the results are correct, how important is it that the motivation was spot on?" but that's a loooong topic of conversation!

I think the problem I see is that as a society we are getting more and more polarised and so yes there is a greater number of people in society embracing being less sexist, racist, homophobic etc being 'woke' (a phrase I hate!!) but then there is a growing number of people who as a reaction to it are becoming more and more openly racist, sexist and homophobic. I want to start seeing actions that make people realise the benefits of a kinder, more compassionate society. 

I guarantee poor Vikki Ager will suffer more abuse from disgruntled Kasabian fans who'll blame her for what happened. I'd like to see more work done to bridge the gap between the woke and the mens right activists etc that you see becoming more prominent. I'd like to see sentencing and societies reaction be one that focusses less on punishment and more on treating the causes. 

Anyone out there with young boys. You have a job to do raising them right. Make sure you tell them female stories, that they understand womens stories are important to them too. Teach them how to express themselves and voice frustration and anger and direct it appropriately. 

I just think our whole approach needs to change. 

[Quark]

Just now, gigpusher said:

I think the problem I see is that as a society we are getting more and more polarised and so yes there is a greater number of people in society embracing being less sexist, racist, homophobic etc being 'woke' (a phrase I hate!!) but then there is a growing number of people who as a reaction to it are becoming more and more openly racist, sexist and homophobic. I want to start seeing actions that make people realise the benefits of a kinder, more compassionate society. 

I guarantee poor Vikki Ager will suffer more abuse from disgruntled Kasabian fans who'll blame her for what happened. I'd like to see more work done to bridge the gap between the woke and the mens right activists etc that you see becoming more prominent. I'd like to see sentencing and societies reaction be one that focusses less on punishment and more on treating the causes. 

Anyone out there with young boys. You have a job to do raising them right. Make sure you tell them female stories, that they understand womens stories are important to them too. Teach them how to express themselves and voice frustration and anger and direct it appropriately. 

I just think our whole approach needs to change. 

Nothing in there to argue with GP 👍

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Nah, he will always be the man who beat his fiance and got away with community service. He may try to make a comeback but i doubt many people will give him the time of day

you only have to read the Kanye thread here to know that fans will look to excuse anything and everything.  

(as bad and the opposite side of nu-puritanical-ism )

Edited July 8, 2020 by eFestivals

[Quark]

Just now, eFestivals said:

you only have to read the Kanye thread here to know that fans will look to excuse anything and everything.  

"excuse" or "allow redemption"?

Sorry, couldn't resist....

[eFestivals]

Just now, Quark said:

"excuse" or "allow redemption"?

Sorry, couldn't resist....

Ha!  

Redemption first needs the person to show they've changed. When that's happened with Kanye?

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

(as bad and the opposite side of nu-puritanical-ism )

 

[gooner1990]

12 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

People have very short memories. A couple of years out of the spotlight and as long as he doesn’t misbehave again he’ll be back.

He might come back, but it won't be in Kasabian, from that statement the remaining members of the band want nothing to do with him anymore.

[DeanoL]

There's a chance the bandmates that toured with him and were his friends for 25 years had absolutely no clue the sort of person he was. It's possible that this incident was the only time he's ever done anything like that and it was a complete abberation.

But most likely they knew from his attitude toward women and the way he was that he wasn't quite 'right' and never called it out because he's their mate. I can't say I'm that sympathetic to the band as a whole.

[Padgey]

9 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Nah, he will always be the man who beat his fiance and got away with community service. He may try to make a comeback but i doubt many people will give him the time of day

Ozzy Osbourne doesn't seem to get remembered as the man who knocked his wife's 2 front teeth out!

[Hugh Jass]

12 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Nah, he will always be the man who beat his fiance and got away with community service. He may try to make a comeback but i doubt many people will give him the time of day

History is full of examples to the contrary.

[Tartan_Glasto]

As highlighted with the other celebs that have carried out domestic violence and gone on to still have a career, fans will choose what they do and do not want to see.

The Chris Brown was is odd though, as I would have thought Chris Brown and Rihanna had quite the overlap of fans. So it's odd that he continued to have the same successful career after. 

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

4 minutes ago, gooner1990 said:

He might come back, but it won't be in Kasabian, from that statement the remaining members of the band want nothing to do with him anymore.

I wouldn’t rule it out personally, maybe a couple of years down the line.

Kasabian are still big, but they’re definitely on the decline. I’ve got a few mates who are diehards and they are adamant it’s not Kasabian without him and they should just split up.

If this hits their popularity and whoever they end up replacing him with means they slip out of headliner status for things like Reading etc, it wouldn’t surprise me to see them welcome him back.

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

There's a chance the bandmates that toured with him and were his friends for 25 years had absolutely no clue the sort of person he was. It's possible that this incident was the only time he's ever done anything like that and it was a complete abberation.

But most likely they knew from his attitude toward women and the way he was that he wasn't quite 'right' and never called it out because he's their mate. I can't say I'm that sympathetic to the band as a whole.

Hmmm, that presumes an insight the band might not have had, and a presumed-guilty attitude from the band. 

It can be taken at face value, you know - and should be. He beat his ex, and the band sacked him because that was unacceptable to them.

[rexclark]

1 hour ago, Hugh Jass said:

Why should they disband? The rest of them haven’t done anything wrong.

They haven't but IMO they're not a shell of a band without him so although they are completely in the right to push him out, Kasabian without Tom would never be the same.

[stuie]

40 minutes ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

whereas with this it's going to be difficult to get any support from others. Nobody is going be saying "ohdon't be so hard on him, it was only a bit of domestic abuse. None of us are perfect!"

Sadly, that’s how a lot of the replies to that statement on twitter read! Can’t believe the way some people think tbh. 

[gooner1990]

4 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

I wouldn’t rule it out personally, maybe a couple of years down the line.

Kasabian are still big, but they’re definitely on the decline. I’ve got a few mates who are diehards and they are adamant it’s not Kasabian without him and they should just split up.

If this hits their popularity and whoever they end up replacing him with means they slip out of headliner status for things like Reading etc, it wouldn’t surprise me to see them welcome him back.

Sales wise they've been on the decline since their first album!

But yes, I have a few mates who are big Kasabian fans and they say they should just call it a day now.  Its like if Oasis had sacked Liam Gallagher...it just doesn't work.

[zahidf]

11 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

History is full of examples to the contrary.

True but things have changed now, and the sort of indie/rock festival scene he will be in wont accept him.

 

Chris Brown is one example: no UK festival even tried to book him after his stuff

[Andre91]

They might as well give Noel Fielding a permanent gig and have him as the new frontman. 

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

I’d like to see a super Hans style super group formed between them and the Courteeners to see this site go into meltdown.

[Quark]

11 minutes ago, Andre91 said:

They might as well give Noel Fielding a permanent gig and have him as the new frontman. 

Not if that puts the Boosh performance of Eels on the Pyramid in jeopardy.

[dentalplan]

20 minutes ago, zahidf said:

True but things have changed now, and the sort of indie/rock festival scene he will be in wont accept him.

 

Chris Brown is one example: no UK festival even tried to book him after his stuff

Had they before?

What I’m expecting is that Kasabian moves on without him but he launches a solo career in a couple of years, and the public can make decide whether he has a career or not with their wallets.

[FloorFiller]

2 minutes ago, dentalplan said:

Had they before?

What I’m expecting is that Kasabian moves on without him but he launches a solo career in a couple of years, and the public can make decide whether he has a career or not with their wallets.

Considering his contributions to Kasabian other than being ‘the frontman’ I’d love to hear any solo stuff he possibly comes out with 😅 I’ve no doubt it’ll happen, but I’ve also no doubt it’ll be shit and forgotten about after any initial ‘he’s back!’ hype that it may or may not arrive with.

[mcshed]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

that's not of any relevance towards Kasabian's choice to virtue-signal their nu-puritanical-ism.

I've no problem with someone losing their job because of what they've done. I've no problem with an employer deciding to sack someone because of what they've done as long as there's a thought process to it.

I *do* have a problem with any employer claiming they had no choice over the decision: they have a choice.

Thankfully, there's some employers who go out of their way to employ ex-offenders. Unfortunately, lots of those companies feel unable to tell the public they do that because the public are morons.

And because the public are morons, those like Kasabian virtue-signal their nu-puritanical-ism. 

Fair enough I was just pointing out the legal and real world repercussions are inexorably linked. 

I agree that Kasabian should take ownership of their decision, but I'm not sure if them saying they had to do it is them signalling how puritanical they are, more saying it's out of their hands so as to not upset those who remain onside with Tom.

[Jon F]

14 hours ago, Gnomicide said:

But that doesn't make them the same band though does it? One member (2 if you count Pat Smear) went on to be successful with a completely different band. That doesn't do much for Nirvana fans, Foos don't drop Nirvana songs into their set.

Joy Division / New Order might be the better example here?  If anything, they seem to be dropping more Joy Division stuff into their sets recently.

In both those cases though the frontman died so there's obviously some sympathy/support for the band to continue.     Unlike say Lostprophets where the rest of the members struggled even when they tried to continue under a different name.

[eFestivals]

12 minutes ago, mcshed said:

I agree that Kasabian should take ownership of their decision, but I'm not sure if them saying they had to do it is them signalling how puritanical they are, more saying it's out of their hands so as to not upset those who remain onside with Tom.

but it's a lie that it's out of their hands. They have their own agency, and they should own it.

When people start pretending there's a higher power which gives them no choice we're all in big trouble!

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, Jon F said:

Joy Division / New Order might be the better example here?  

In both those cases though the frontman died

Barney is dead..?  

:P