Black Lives Matter

[km9]

1 hour ago, mcshed said:

Apologies if this has been too many posts on the one aspect of this issue. 

I'm worried that as this descends into debate club less people will read this thread and genuine sharing information will be lost. So if anyone feels this is dragging on, please just ask and I'll stop posting.

It's been dragging on for ages mate, not your fault. Who knows though, maybe all of a sudden everyone will spontaneously accept that in online arguments, people are very unlikely to change their opinion and so will stop ranting at each other. I doubt it though.

[mcshed]

5 minutes ago, Dave_c said:

Agreed, no argument that police use excessive force in situations where it is not warranted, but I think it's false to conclude that this is biased towards BAME.

As the other fella was pointing out BAME people in the US are far more likely to have to deal with the police. So a violent police force is one way for a society to have a racial bias without any individual person displaying bias.

[Neil]

22 minutes ago, Dave_c said:

Agreed, no argument that police use excessive force in situations where it is not warranted, but I think it's false to conclude that this is biased towards BAME.

As every other part of the justice system is biased against BAME when it's supposedly operating to the rules, I reckon when a part of that goes beyond the rules the same will happen. 

[zahidf]

 

[zahidf]

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/16/priti-patel-linked-with-monument-protection-campaign-organiser?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&__twitter_impression=true

 

Hmmmm

[jparx]

13 minutes ago, zahidf said:

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/16/priti-patel-linked-with-monument-protection-campaign-organiser?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&__twitter_impression=true

 

Hmmmm

I give her six months at this rate.

[Winslow Leach]

26 minutes ago, jparx said:

I give her six months at this rate.

Yeah, before she’s PM and bringing back hanging.

[mcshed]

40 minutes ago, Winslow Leach said:

Yeah, before she’s PM and bringing back hanging.

She's dead keen.

[DJL]

10 hours ago, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

 

There are about 42,000,000 black people in the USA.

Police shot 1,004 people last year. 250 were black, or 25%. Nearly all of them were black men armed with a weapon or resisting arrest.

That means as a percentage this number of black people were shot by cops in 2019 -

0.00000595238%

Does that seem like a large number to you?

I actually make it 0.00059523809% (though to be fair that could be my poor maths). Either way though it seems like a larger number than the percentage of white Americans shot by cops in 2019. - 197 million population, 370 shootings (worked out in the same way) = 0.00019473684. I think that context is important. 

[zahidf]

Police in England and Wales six times more likely to fine BAME people in lockdown

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/17/police-in-england-and-wales-six-times-more-likely-to-fine-bame-people-in-lockdown

 

[Neil]

10 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Police in England and Wales six times more likely to fine BAME people in lockdown

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/17/police-in-england-and-wales-six-times-more-likely-to-fine-bame-people-in-lockdown

 

is it because they're breaking lockdown much more than white people? 

</sarcasm>

[Crazyfool01]

* scours the internet for some vaguely related statistics to disprove ...

[Copperface]

2 hours ago, Neil said:

is it because they're breaking lockdown much more than white people? 

</sarcasm>

Except that Guardian article really is twisting those stats and starts off with a misleading headline. Six times more likely my arse.

The Cumbrian figures showed that in total 5 BAME residents received enforcement fines. 22 were issued to non resident BAME persons. This was largely down to one major day when a large group of BAME people travelled into the Lake District from outside the area (Manchester I believe) and refused to return to their homes when initially requested, after local people had complained to police about potential lockdown breaches. Engagement etc failed and enforcement was the only course of action. This one incident totally skewed the Cumbria figures and are not representative.Because the sample figure is tiny. Even after that their total is 8%.

The Lincolnshire and Suffolk figures were largely contained to certain areas and the ethnic minority involved was Rumanian, who it appeared did not believe the restrictions applied to them. Many of those fines were issued when they been arrested for other offences involving drunkenness and ASB in addition to charging for other offences. 

The true figure is eventually revealed as 1.6, and a lot of that probably stems from an instinctive reaction not to engage.

However, we then return to societal and structural reasons. 

 

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by Copperface

[Neil]

49 minutes ago, Copperface said:

we then return to societal and structural reasons. 

yep, with the societal reasons including racism.

It's been proven via research as a problem at all levels of the justice system for decades, and nothing has been changed to make it go away.

My comment against that particular instance was sarcasm, which you seemed to have missed. It may or may not have been a factor in those instances, but it's proper head in the sand stuff to believe it's not the overall problem that it's constantly proven as being.

[Copperface]

50 minutes ago, Neil said:

yep, with the societal reasons including racism.

It's been proven via research as a problem at all levels of the justice system for decades, and nothing has been changed to make it go away.

My comment against that particular instance was sarcasm, which you seemed to have missed. It may or may not have been a factor in those instances, but it's proper head in the sand stuff to believe it's not the overall problem that it's constantly proven as being.

Which is my definition of institutional racism (as opposed to institutionalised).

All of which I've consistently advocated and agreed with - and it's not unique to the justice system.

I prefer ironic to sarcastic........:)

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by Copperface

[zahidf]

Ha ha ha ha. Cops having a breakdown over a wrong order

 

[marcoolio]

On 6/16/2020 at 1:54 PM, gigpusher said:

 Forgive the expression but Obama had to be whiter than white to get there. He had no scandals. 

No scandals?!

Did you not know he once asked for Dijon mustard with his hamburger??

[Copperface]

46 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Ha ha ha ha. Cops having a breakdown over a wrong order

 

Alternative view......watch till end.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/08/25/black-lives-matter-peggy-hubbard-lemon-intv-ctn.cnn

[Mr.Tease]

1 hour ago, zahidf said:

Ha ha ha ha. Cops having a breakdown over a wrong order

 

 

To be fair, waiting for food when you're hungry is second only to waiting for food to cool when you're hungry, in terms of psychological distress for me. Once at home, I remember declaring "THEN I WILL EAT NOTHING!!!!" (i think either due to the long cooking time of something, or someone had eaten what I was planning on having) and storming off almost in tears- boy, did I regret that!😂

[Copperface]

That reaction is not about a wrong order, it's about not being able to see the food being prepared.

Not unusual for it to be 'tampered with' out of sight if in uniform etc.

Was a spate of it happening in South London on the OKR at the colonel's place specifically with military personnel from  nearby barracks years ago. Some guy was fighting his own little war of retribution on the military by adding his own special condiments to their food. He eventually got rumbled and it wasn't pretty. But zero f***ks or sympathy given by me.

Standard procedure by police to always watch, if possible, your food prep in US and also here in UK for police and military.

So yeah, ha ha ha.

[Gilgamesh69]

So police are scared of their food being tampered with, whilst black people are scared of being murdered by police.

 

Those poor coppers, if only they could just quit their job so they wouldn't have this problem 😢

[mcshed]

44 minutes ago, Copperface said:

Standard procedure by police to always watch, if possible, your food prep in US and also here in UK for police and military.

So yeah, ha ha ha.

She ordered food at a drive through you can't see your food being prepared anyway?

[Copperface]

20 minutes ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

.. black people are scared of being murdered by police.

 

😢

Lol, the most prevalent problem lies within certain sections of the BAME communities. Police and other societal reactions are a symptom of the continuing disregard for life and violence contained within some demographics. Crack on kids.......

[Neil]

1 minute ago, Copperface said:

Lol, the most prevalent problem lies within certain sections of the BAME communities. Police and other societal reactions are a symptom of the continuing disregard for life and violence contained within some demographics. Crack on kids.......

Just about no one says police aren't necessary.

Police try to justify the bad and just-as-illegal actions they choose to make as reasonable.

Who knew? Lol

[Copperface]

8 minutes ago, Neil said:

Just about no one says police aren't necessary.

Police try to justify the bad and just-as-illegal actions they choose to make as reasonable.

Who knew? Lol

I'm not justifying them. Who is? They are wrong when that happens, no question. 

Edited June 17, 2020 by Copperface