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Primavera Sound 2021


chilirocker

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Just now, xxialac said:

Everything in your post sounds very credible and thanks for sharing insights.

I do think there are still enough great European bands who'd love to play and would still make it a credible edition, even without the transatlantic ones.

The UK appears happy with only UK acts after all. And also some Primavera is surely better than no Primavera at all?

I wonder if they're on the fence, if the additional challenges caused by Brexit, limiting UK bands willingness to travel are just bad enough to tip them over the edge. Would be very sad.

I'd imagine that the UK govt didn't want to give in on anything around the time of the Brexit "deal", and as there are no tours happening it made little difference. It would not surprise me if a deal for easier travel happens at some point when it becomes necessary. 

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40 minutes ago, bluenova said:

Great Escape is mostly indoors isn't it, so less of a surprise. Dot to dot is similar, and usually in May too, but they've just announced a move to September.

Even with massive numbers, I'd be happier with an outdoor festival than a small club this summer.

Yeh I just meant odd they didn’t wait till weds 

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42 minutes ago, Quadrophobia said:

Assuming all European Bands would be able to tour. UK bands coming to Europe ist certainly not out of the picture, but festival touring would be much more of a hassle than normally. Also theyd prefer UK gigs for obvious reasons.

Consider this. A fictious band, lets call them White Muncipality, Old Street is planning a EU September tour. They could either play clubshows, say 2-4 per country, a total of maybe 20, or festivals, maximum 12 - 15 if there'd be festivals all September and theyd sprawl from Wednesday to Sunday. 
With clubshows you'd need to pass a border every 5-7 days, with fetivals possibly daily. This will be complicated with a lot of travel regulations still in place, depeding on each countries Covid situation and EU-UK Schengen development. Not hard to make out what bands would chose, right?

No guarantee that German, French, Italian and Scandinavian Bands would be able to come to Spain easily too.
 

I think we’re putting forward the same point. I don’t think it’s a possibility, for these reasons exactly. 

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There was a rumour of an announcement next week. I doubt it will be much later than that. 

And still think they’ll be bold and announce a later date and then rely on  being able to replace transatlantic acts. The U.K. is showing if nothing else that there’s huge pent up demand for tickets.

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Somebody on Reddit spotted and translated this:

"Right now we are at a crossroads: we can confirm and say: 'yes, there will be a festival, for 35 thousand people!' and we have to fulfill the contracts, that is, we have to pay the advance to the bands that, if there is no festival, will only return [the money] to us when there is a new date. And this is a terrible financial endeavor: after a year of pandemic, I do not believe that there is anyone with the financial liquidity to take that kind of risk. Or else we kick off and 2022 with the festival. ” The pandemic situation in Portugal is not the only factor to be taken into account. The availability of international bands and the normalization, or not, of air travel are other possible impediments to the realization of major events.

Last year, NOS Primavera Sound even postponed its 2020 edition to September (it would, like all festivals, end up being canceled). This year, that hypothesis is out of the question, guarantees José Barreiro. “Because of the evolution of vaccination in England and the United States, a large part of the festivals [in these countries] also passed to September or October. Last year we managed to fit almost 90% [of the poster] in three months. This year is impossible. If we made a completely different proposal [with other artists], we would be selling cat in a poke and defrauding the expectations of those who bought a ticket for this poster. ” “We have to decide by March 15, at the most, what to do with this year's edition”, concludes José Barreiro.

https://blitz.pt/principal/update/2021-02-28-Havera-festivais-de-musica-em-Portugal-este-ano--O-verao-nao-e-igual-para-todos-e-ha-uma-incerteza-que-corroi

I know this is the NOS edition, but still doesn't sound too promising.

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18 minutes ago, FloorFiller said:

Somebody on Reddit spotted and translated this:

"Right now we are at a crossroads: we can confirm and say: 'yes, there will be a festival, for 35 thousand people!' and we have to fulfill the contracts, that is, we have to pay the advance to the bands that, if there is no festival, will only return [the money] to us when there is a new date. And this is a terrible financial endeavor: after a year of pandemic, I do not believe that there is anyone with the financial liquidity to take that kind of risk. Or else we kick off and 2022 with the festival. ” The pandemic situation in Portugal is not the only factor to be taken into account. The availability of international bands and the normalization, or not, of air travel are other possible impediments to the realization of major events.

Last year, NOS Primavera Sound even postponed its 2020 edition to September (it would, like all festivals, end up being canceled). This year, that hypothesis is out of the question, guarantees José Barreiro. “Because of the evolution of vaccination in England and the United States, a large part of the festivals [in these countries] also passed to September or October. Last year we managed to fit almost 90% [of the poster] in three months. This year is impossible. If we made a completely different proposal [with other artists], we would be selling cat in a poke and defrauding the expectations of those who bought a ticket for this poster. ” “We have to decide by March 15, at the most, what to do with this year's edition”, concludes José Barreiro.

https://blitz.pt/principal/update/2021-02-28-Havera-festivais-de-musica-em-Portugal-este-ano--O-verao-nao-e-igual-para-todos-e-ha-uma-incerteza-que-corroi

I know this is the NOS edition, but still doesn't sound too promising.

He does sound very negative, definitely.

On the other hand, the following paragraph of that article has an interview with the similarly sized Paredes de Coura, which is more positive.

"More optimistic is João Carvalho, director of Vodafone Paredes de Coura. “I believe that festivals are held. At least those which are closer to the end of the year. I believe that Paredes de Coura, for example, happens: I can say that just yesterday I signed three contracts with international bands for this year's edition. I am completely confident ”, he assures. “Whether it will be restricted or not, I don't know. Although festivals, in this business model, cannot be done with restrictions. It is unthinkable to pay for a festival if only half the people can get there ”

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Couldn't tell from your message whether you meant to announce the lineup itself but seems extremely unlikely to me that they would reveal the June 2022 lineup in March 2021. Sure they will simply announce what's happening then and as there's a key announcement in Portugal on 11 March might just be after that.

 

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5 hours ago, xxialac said:

He does sound very negative, definitely.

On the other hand, the following paragraph of that article has an interview with the similarly sized Paredes de Coura, which is more positive.

"More optimistic is João Carvalho, director of Vodafone Paredes de Coura. “I believe that festivals are held. At least those which are closer to the end of the year. I believe that Paredes de Coura, for example, happens: I can say that just yesterday I signed three contracts with international bands for this year's edition. I am completely confident ”, he assures. “Whether it will be restricted or not, I don't know. Although festivals, in this business model, cannot be done with restrictions. It is unthinkable to pay for a festival if only half the people can get there ”

Maybe some of you don't know, but both José Barreiro and João Carvalho are partners in the same company. Both are organizers of NPS and Paredes de Coura. José Barreiro is in charge of NPS and João Carvalho is in charge of Paredes de Coura. Picnic is the company created between Paredes de Coura and Primaversa Sound Barcelona to manage NPS.

So, both know things. In my opinion, José Barreiro is saying that no NPS this year, and João Carvalho is saying that Paredes will go ahead (at least at this point).

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Does anyone know how the contracts stuff works, ie, at what point in the process do the festivals pay advances to the bands?

Assuming for argument's sake that the festival doesn't happen this year, what's the chance of the lineup getting a complete refresh for next year?

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17 hours ago, FloorFiller said:

Somebody on Reddit spotted and translated this:

"Right now we are at a crossroads: we can confirm and say: 'yes, there will be a festival, for 35 thousand people!' and we have to fulfill the contracts, that is, we have to pay the advance to the bands that, if there is no festival, will only return [the money] to us when there is a new date. And this is a terrible financial endeavor: after a year of pandemic, I do not believe that there is anyone with the financial liquidity to take that kind of risk. Or else we kick off and 2022 with the festival. ” The pandemic situation in Portugal is not the only factor to be taken into account. The availability of international bands and the normalization, or not, of air travel are other possible impediments to the realization of major events.

Last year, NOS Primavera Sound even postponed its 2020 edition to September (it would, like all festivals, end up being canceled). This year, that hypothesis is out of the question, guarantees José Barreiro. “Because of the evolution of vaccination in England and the United States, a large part of the festivals [in these countries] also passed to September or October. Last year we managed to fit almost 90% [of the poster] in three months. This year is impossible. If we made a completely different proposal [with other artists], we would be selling cat in a poke and defrauding the expectations of those who bought a ticket for this poster. ” “We have to decide by March 15, at the most, what to do with this year's edition”, concludes José Barreiro.

https://blitz.pt/principal/update/2021-02-28-Havera-festivais-de-musica-em-Portugal-este-ano--O-verao-nao-e-igual-para-todos-e-ha-uma-incerteza-que-corroi

I know this is the NOS edition, but still doesn't sound too promising.

Yeah this is pretty definite proof that there won't be a PS in 2021.

I can imagine they brokered quite a big package of bands for 2022 already. It would come off very positively announcing they will quit the unneccessary waiting for a festival that won't happen and instead present something that people can look forward to in 2022. Headliners would be fixed around this period of time anyways.

 

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6 minutes ago, Quadrophobia said:

Yeah this is pretty definite proof that there won't be a PS in 2021.

I can imagine they brokered quite a big package of bands for 2022 already. It would come off very positively announcing they will quit the unneccessary waiting for a festival that won't happen and instead present something that people can look forward to in 2022. Headliners would be fixed around this period of time anyways.

 

It's really not pretty definite proof, is it.

Porto and Barcelona may take different paths.

Or it may be an article trying to lobby the local govt to offer them financial underwriting etc

And why did Paredes de Coura think they could run their same sized festival?

Finally Ken35 said only this weekend that Primavera, Roskilde and Werchter were trying to collaborate to put together a lineup.

It's not over until it's over.

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23 minutes ago, xxialac said:

It's really not pretty definite proof, is it.

Porto and Barcelona may take different paths.

Or it may be an article trying to lobby the local govt to offer them financial underwriting etc

And why did Paredes de Coura think they could run their same sized festival?

Finally Ken35 said only this weekend that Primavera, Roskilde and Werchter were trying to collaborate to put together a lineup.

It's not over until it's over.

This is nothing but wihsful thinking, I'm sorry. 

They won't take different paths and if they did, it would most certainly not be the bigger festival that goes ahead. Lobbying the government is fruitless because they have no control over the primary problems. Availability of international bands in September and the Corona situation then. 

And while I don't think that PdC can go ahead they have several advantages over PS. They don't have to reschedule but have a date that is at least a possibility, they are somewhat smaller and, most notably, they are not reliant on PS Barcelona pulling big acts. 

And honestly, whatever any possible insider says might be true, but it might just be something they thought of but never materialized. Rock Werchter was already rumoured to move to September in January, the news of that slipped officially two weeks ago, yet they don't seem to actually go through with it. Same goes for BKS. The truth sinply is that larger festivals on mainlad Europe are not possible to hold in 2021 without severe risks attached.

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1 minute ago, Quadrophobia said:

This is nothing but wihsful thinking, I'm sorry. 

They won't take different paths and if they did, it would most certainly not be the bigger festival that goes ahead. Lobbying the government is fruitless because they have no control over the primary problems. Availability of international bands in September and the Corona situation then. 

And while I don't think that PdC can go ahead they have several advantages of PS. They don't have to reschedule but have a date that is at least a possibility, they are somewhat smaller and, most notably, they are not reliant on PS Barcelona pulling big acts. 

And honestly, whatever any possible insider says might be true, but it might just be something they thought of but never materialized.

They could take different paths if the local Catalan government has indicated it is favourable to a festival going ahead (they subsidise it every year after all and welcome the tourist money it brings) and the Portuguese equivalent is sounding more cautious.

Yes, on the other points. 

In the end not long to wait - we shall see and probably by next week.

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2 hours ago, daveje said:

Does anyone know how the contracts stuff works, ie, at what point in the process do the festivals pay advances to the bands?

Assuming for argument's sake that the festival doesn't happen this year, what's the chance of the lineup getting a complete refresh for next year?

They usually get paid x months' before the festival so bands can use it to book flights, sort crew and any accommodation, etc. Generally it'll depend on individual contracts when they get advances – some of the small and mid level bands won't get any at all and only get paid after it's happened.

If they did it in 2022 instead I'm pretty confident they'd try and keep as many bands as possible to stop people from wanting refunds – they need as much liquidity and cash in the bank as possible. But who's going to be excited to keep tickets for a festival that's something like two years from when they first bought it? I think they'd need a killer new headliner or two to keep people interested and keeping the tickets, personally.

Personally I think they'll try their best to roll this over to September, but we'll see.

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On 2/26/2021 at 4:04 PM, xxialac said:

 

The UK appears happy with only UK acts after all. And also some Primavera is surely better than no Primavera at all?

 

Yeah - I think many people will accept any lineup for the chance to go to a festival again.

I personally won't as I can't justify the expense to see what might be for me a C list lineup. I have tickets rolled over for Black Deer which they are saying is going ahead last weekend of June (??).... the main bands I was interested in are pretty much all American ,Wilco etc, so I likely won't be attending if they end up with a very different fully UK lineup. Which they will.

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1 hour ago, jannybruck said:

They usually get paid x months' before the festival so bands can use it to book flights, sort crew and any accommodation, etc. Generally it'll depend on individual contracts when they get advances – some of the small and mid level bands won't get any at all and only get paid after it's happened.

If they did it in 2022 instead I'm pretty confident they'd try and keep as many bands as possible to stop people from wanting refunds – they need as much liquidity and cash in the bank as possible. But who's going to be excited to keep tickets for a festival that's something like two years from when they first bought it? I think they'd need a killer new headliner or two to keep people interested and keeping the tickets, personally.

Personally I think they'll try their best to roll this over to September, but we'll see.

Thanks. I was wondering whether advances had already gone out, and to what extent bands were already 'locked in'.

I'm inclined to agree that if everything rolls over to next year, there needs to be some changes to the lineup. The headliners that were most relevant last year might not be the same for next year. And there's also the fact that many bands have given up on this year completely and started planning for next year. Plus possible attrition. My feeling is people sitting on tickets won't really care if the lineup is different.

Obviously September is preferable, but I'm finding that increasingly unrealistic.

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Download UK cancelled

With few exceptions, all June festivals are going down the drain.

Regarding PS22: I know of at least one headliner that is pretty safely on board for 2022 too. 

I think none of the headliners will be "outdated" by 2022. Beck is more of a discography act anyways, Pavement, Massive Attack and Strokes (somewhat) haven't played in Ages, Tyler has only become more established, Tame Impala are the biggest Indie-Rock Band in the world right now, so it doesnt matter how long the album has been out and Gorillaz will probably continue releasing song machine stuff, so they'll stay relevant. The only problems I see are The National (Love them but they toured their last material extensively) and Bad Bunny, who by now  could simply be too expensive, having become one of the biggest pop stars in the world

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