How long to learn...the piano

[O'Doyle Rules]

Given that remote working is expected to last until at least early summer, maybe it is time to take up some more hobbies...think running every day is making me lose my hair 😅

Was thinking of buying a 88-key keyboard/piano and learning using the app Simply Piano.

I love music but have 0 experience of playing any instruments.

Was thinking of playing an hour a day and wonder what expectations I should have?

It's basically so I can play a celebratory "re-opening of the pubs" concert in Kings Cross.

[jparx]

That was my new year resolution and I've been using the Simply Piano app with a Yamaha P45 (highly recommend that if you're willing to drop a few hundred quid) for about 3 months. I used to play (briefly) when I was about 9, and I've played guitar for about 20 years, so I had some foundations. In three months I've reached the point of playing Hey Jude, Let it Be and a simplified Tiny Dancer. Edit: and All Too Well of course!

The app is good , especially for a beginner. The structure of the lessons is good and you do feel like you're constantly making progress, but slow and with enough reps for it sink in. The audio recognition on an iPad mic can be a bit hit and miss (not to the point where it ruins it) so I'd advise using a cable if have one. There's plenty of songs to learn, and at various difficulties, but brace yourself for some fucking dreadful covers!

I'd recommend to someone in your position. It gets you playing stuff you'll recognise very early on. It's not a traditional way of learning the instrument but if you're looking to play your favourite songs and be able to jam along, it's a good piece of software. You do learn some theory as well, it's just not the same as having traditional lessons. 

My only real complaint, and this is probably because of my experience playing guitar, is you're mostly learning the vocal lines translated to piano. I had a look at learning a simplified Piano Man, but you're literally plodding along with the vocals. And that's the same if you try and learn the advanced version. That being said the app does get you reading and understanding music, so you can always download sheet music separately.

Edited April 21, 2020 by jparx

[jparx]

Fire away if you have any questions btw. I'm probably well positioned to answer having recently started down the same path!

[Gilgamesh69]

Not quite the same but I ordered a keyboard recently too. A Roland GO:KEYS, only has 61 keys but seems to have a lot of different tones and features.

 

I don't know how to play either so this thread could be pretty useful

[jparx]

One key tip if you're starting from scratch is don't over practice, particularly in the early goings. When you see the pros play, their hands are so relaxed and fluid, but you won't be at the point right away especially as you're focusing on which keys to hit and where your chords are, and your wrists can get quite tense and sore in the process. Make sure you take breaks and you have a good seat, at the right height, that allows you to keep your back straight.

[UEF]

5 hours ago, jparx said:

 

My only real complaint, and this is probably because of my experience playing guitar, is you're mostly learning the vocal lines translated to piano. I had a look at learning a simplified Piano Man, but you're literally plodding along with the vocals. And that's the same if you try and learn the advanced version.

 

Well at least you'll be able to play lounge piano...

[kalifire]

I had piano lessons from 4 years old and played right through to my early 20's, at which point my circumstances changed and I never really played again. I haven't played properly for the best part of 20 years, which kills me in a way since it's such a wonderful creative outlet to be able to express yourself through.

There are really two kinds of approaches to learning piano. You could jump in and figure out how to press the right keys to play particular chords, so you can suddenly clunk your way through that tune you really like, or you could learn properly from the beginning, starting with the very basics. The second way is how you learn piano.

So my tip would be not to short-cut the basics. Learn how to play scales and practice over and over again until you can do it with your eyes closed. Start learning very simple things, and understand it will take years to be the pianist you might imagine. Pick a course, or some structured tuition so you're not just going off random YouTube videos.

You will feel it's slow, the practice will be incredibly boring at times, but persevere. Persist, and at some point down the line, something will click. You'll be able to improvise and play things by ear. You'll hear a tune and work out how to play it. But to do this properly takes time.

As you progress, there will be moments where whatever you were struggling with gets easier, and comes together quickly. It starts to feel instinctive and second nature. Look out for those moments, because they indicate you're getting it.

Also (and some may disagree with this) observe if those moments don't come. The reality is, not everyone is creative in this way. For some it's a real struggle and their creativity might lie elsewhere. If you've persisted but it's just not happening for you, don't be afraid to call it - you haven't failed, you're just talented in another way, but you gave it a shot and that's your accomplishment.

Edited April 21, 2020 by kalifire

[priest17]

Plenty of useful, rational responses above so here my counter point:

Three fingers a couple of notes apart is basically a power chord, plenty of sustain and you're golden.

My references are I've played guitar for 17 years despite being 100% tone deaf and drums for 6 years despite having no rhythm. 

[Gilgamesh69]

Anyone here got any good (preferably free) resources for learning? Both for playing and the theoretical stuff. YouTube channels, websites, articles etc

[Quark]

This thread is making me think about picking up my guitar again. If Mrs Q files for divorce it's your collective fault.

[SwedgeAntilles]

29 minutes ago, Quark said:

This thread is making me think about picking up my guitar again. If Mrs Q files for divorce it's your collective fault.

Think of the emotional subject matter for your songs though. 

[Pipkins]

I would highly advise against the sp app if your aim is simply to play songs as opposed to pieces. Even if you want to learn to sight read there are much more effective methods. The sp app is much derided by classical musicians. A very easy, very effective and FREE method is:

Learn all your major chords (very easy, just play the first, third and fifth of a scale to form a chord). Use YouTube to find how to do this, or take any note, this can be your root (or TONIC) count four notes up and then another three, including the black keys). You now have a major chord. Now drop your third a semitone (down to the next note which may be a black key) and the chord has changed from a major chord to a minor chord. After these, which only take a day or two to remember, look at YouTube and learn Sus 2 and Sus 4 chords, sevenths and inversions. They are simply variations on your original major chord. You will find that within a week you will be able to play almost any song you can think of and it will sound great. The only exception is Coldplay, Adele, Sheeran or U2. Nothing you do will ever make them sound good.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Pipkins

[FloorFiller]

I got a guitar when I was 16 and one of my biggest regrets in life has always been not learning to play it and in turn create music in some way, so likewise in deciding to use this time to tackle that 🙂 Probably too late to ever headline Glastonbury, but at least I can be one of those c**ts who brings their guitar with them and ruins the atmosphere by trying to play Wonderwall...

[Quark]

42 minutes ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

Think of the emotional subject matter for your songs though. 

I have creativity of a banana and the emotional depth of a Bernard Manning joke.  I'm unlikely to be producing much in the way of soul searching balladry tbh.

[jparx]

Well, all I'll say as someone who has actually used Simple Piano for getting on four months now, with an extensive background in a different instrument, I'd recommend it highly to beginners. Classical pianists will obviously hate it, but in the guitar world I know full how much the hardcores hate any new e-learning software that eliminates the need for physical lessons, or dares to make lessons more fun and less tedious. There can be a lot of elitism out there and sections of the community can easily forget what it's like to be a beginner (not speaking to anyone here!)

And to be clear with Simply Piano, you do learn theory, you do learn scales, you do learn how to read music, it's just presented and ordered differently from traditional lessons to appeal to people with less time to commit to it to keep it interesting. It's designed for regularly, short bursts, and that's been working we for me so far. I've learnt loads more in 4 months with it than I did in 18 months of piano lessons as a child.

[The Nal]

Have been taking lessons for the last 5 months or so. Id advise to learn properly. ie how to read music from day 1.

As below

https://simple.wikibooks.org/wiki/Piano/Reading_Music

Learn your FACE and All Cows Eat Grass

[northernringo]

On 4/21/2020 at 10:22 AM, jparx said:

That was my new year resolution and I've been using the Simply Piano app with a Yamaha P45 (highly recommend that if you're willing to drop a few hundred quid) for about 3 months. I used to play (briefly) when I was about 9, and I've played guitar for about 20 years, so I had some foundations. In three months I've reached the point of playing Hey Jude, Let it Be and a simplified Tiny Dancer. Edit: and All Too Well of course!

The app is good , especially for a beginner. The structure of the lessons is good and you do feel like you're constantly making progress, but slow and with enough reps for it sink in. The audio recognition on an iPad mic can be a bit hit and miss (not to the point where it ruins it) so I'd advise using a cable if have one. There's plenty of songs to learn, and at various difficulties, but brace yourself for some fucking dreadful covers!

I'd recommend to someone in your position. It gets you playing stuff you'll recognise very early on. It's not a traditional way of learning the instrument but if you're looking to play your favourite songs and be able to jam along, it's a good piece of software. You do learn some theory as well, it's just not the same as having traditional lessons. 

My only real complaint, and this is probably because of my experience playing guitar, is you're mostly learning the vocal lines translated to piano. I had a look at learning a simplified Piano Man, but you're literally plodding along with the vocals. And that's the same if you try and learn the advanced version. That being said the app does get you reading and understanding music, so you can always download sheet music separately.

Got this app yesterday and it is brilliant.

I can play another instrument to a decent standard so have no issues reading music etc. Could always 'hack' a tune one handed too but wanted to learn how to actually play the piano/keyboard and after a few hours yesterday I'm already pretty confident playing two handed (albeit with only the 5 'starter keys' on both hands).

My keyboard is a bit of an antique though so may need to purchase a newer one at some point.

[Quark]

24 minutes ago, northernringo said:

Got this app yesterday and it is brilliant.

I can play another instrument to a decent standard so have no issues reading music etc. Could always 'hack' a tune one handed too but wanted to learn how to actually play the piano/keyboard and after a few hours yesterday I'm already pretty confident playing two handed (albeit with only the 5 'starter keys' on both hands).

My keyboard is a bit of an antique though vintage / retro / a classic (delete as appropriate) so may need to purchase a newer one at some point.

FTFY

Edited April 27, 2020 by Quark

[jparx]

21 minutes ago, northernringo said:

Got this app yesterday and it is brilliant.

I can play another instrument to a decent standard so have no issues reading music etc. Could always 'hack' a tune one handed too but wanted to learn how to actually play the piano/keyboard and after a few hours yesterday I'm already pretty confident playing two handed (albeit with only the 5 'starter keys' on both hands).

My keyboard is a bit of an antique though so may need to purchase a newer one at some point.

Glad you're enjoying it!

I've started to find one of the most useful aspects is the new beta feature with the expanded song library. I was learning Your Song over the weekend, and it's incredibly intuitive the way it breaks the song down, allows you to slow down the tempo etc. Again, I know from a purist, classically trained pianists POV it might not be the "right" way to learn, but I'm very much of the opinion with learning an instrument that there's no right or wrong way. As long as you're enjoying yourself and happy with your progress, your way is working. It's got me to the point where I can fairly confidently sight read basic music, so I'm pretty chuffed!

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

I’m also very interested in doing this, it’s weird because I thought about it a couple of days ago and then this post appeared.

For somebody who is technically unemployed (I’ve got a job to start once WFH ends) I don’t want to commit to much money to it. Would a keyboard suffice and still be a decent way to learn? And if so can anybody recommend any decent cheap options?

[northernringo]

13 minutes ago, jparx said:

Glad you're enjoying it!

I've started to find one of the most useful aspects is the new beta feature with the expanded song library. I was learning Your Song over the weekend, and it's incredibly intuitive the way it breaks the song down, allows you to slow down the tempo etc. Again, I know from a purist, classically trained pianists POV it might not be the "right" way to learn, but I'm very much of the opinion with learning an instrument that there's no right or wrong way. As long as you're enjoying yourself and happy with your progress, your way is working. It's got me to the point where I can fairly confidently sight read basic music, so I'm pretty chuffed!

I agree. I appreciate it isn't probably the 'best' way to learn but if your objective is to be able to confidently play a variety of popular songs, etc. then I don't see the harm. It isn't something I'll ever take to the next level so happy with these courses so far.

[jparx]

29 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

I’m also very interested in doing this, it’s weird because I thought about it a couple of days ago and then this post appeared.

For somebody who is technically unemployed (I’ve got a job to start once WFH ends) I don’t want to commit to much money to it. Would a keyboard suffice and still be a decent way to learn? And if so can anybody recommend any decent cheap options?

All depends on your budget really. Ideally you'd want 88 full size keys that are at least semi weighted, but you're instantly looking at £150+

If you just want to jump in with something cheap and cheerful, your main considerations would probably be full size keys or not, how many keys, and what features. I'd always go full size keys since my fingers are chubby, so something like this would be a good start https://www.amazon.co.uk/Casio-CTK-240AD-Full-Size-Keyboard-Adapter/dp/B007VCFSYS/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?dchild=1&qid=1587983379&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_two_browse-bin%3A2637343031&s=musical-instruments&sr=1-3

If you want something cheaper just have a look on eBay for second hand Yamaha/Casio ones. 

Word of warning - Amazon has a load of RockJam keyboards which are well reviewed. I initially bought one of those, but I had to send it back twice as the middle C key broke. Might have been an anomaly, but it didn't fill me with confidence on the quality.

 

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

12 minutes ago, jparx said:

All depends on your budget really. Ideally you'd want 88 full size keys that are at least semi weighted, but you're instantly looking at £150+

If you just want to jump in with something cheap and cheerful, your main considerations would probably be full size keys or not, how many keys, and what features. I'd always go full size keys since my fingers are chubby, so something like this would be a good start https://www.amazon.co.uk/Casio-CTK-240AD-Full-Size-Keyboard-Adapter/dp/B007VCFSYS/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?dchild=1&qid=1587983379&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_two_browse-bin%3A2637343031&s=musical-instruments&sr=1-3

If you want something cheaper just have a look on eBay for second hand Yamaha/Casio ones. 

Word of warning - Amazon has a load of RockJam keyboards which are well reviewed. I initially bought one of those, but I had to send it back twice as the middle C key broke. Might have been an anomaly, but it didn't fill me with confidence on the quality.

 

Cheers, I was thinking maybe about around £50 so that seems ideal. Don’t think I can justify much more based on my situation but that seems like a good compromise.

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

As an aside, does anyone else feel their lockdown experience so far is fairly similar to this peep show scene, just replace clarinet with piano.

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Deaf Nobby Burton

[Gwladboy]

Saw this thread back in April and it must have planted a seed because I’ve just bought a Roland FP10 for my son and I to learn piano. 

I can play a bit of guitar but can’t read music or really understand music theory so I’m interested in that.  I also think the apps would appeal to my 7 year old more than standard piano lessons.

How are you guys who posted originally getting on with it?