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https://www.ft.com/content/b782f666-6847-4487-986c-56d3f5e46c0b

Apologies if this has already been discussed but theres been an interesting and controversial development on the vaccine, they're planning on deliberately infecting fit and healthy volunteers after being immunised with the Oxford vaccines and seeing the immediate effects of it and if it can work 

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My housemate has tested positive, so now I've gotta self-isolate for two weeks. Can't work from home so won't have much of an income. Will also miss out on college too, so now i'm wondering if I should just drop out.

:(

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2 minutes ago, Chapple12345 said:

https://www.ft.com/content/b782f666-6847-4487-986c-56d3f5e46c0b

Apologies if this has already been discussed but theres been an interesting and controversial development on the vaccine, they're planning on deliberately infecting fit and healthy volunteers after being immunised with the Oxford vaccines and seeing the immediate effects of it and if it can work 

It's paywalled but does it specify the Oxford vaccine? Was reading about this earlier on a different site and it said the specific vaccine/s hadn't been disclosed.

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24 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

@Toilet Duck should we be worried about the Oxford trials not having restarted in the US?

They insist on their own panel evaluating the data, rather than accepting the decision of the independent panel used in the UK. It’s fairly standard for different jurisdictions to request their own review of any data. The more cynical might view it as politically motivated, but it’s not unusual. There’s loads of drugs that had their approval pulled, only for it to be reinstated by the FDA, while the EMA take their time and review the evidence themselves. So, they are just being thorough. At the moment, the trial is still on track and we may get an interim analysis in the next few weeks. I believe the Pfizer and Moderna trials have loads more interim analyses planned than the Oxford one, so should probably be starting to get an inkling about these early ones all around the same time. 

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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/23/starmer-treats-johnson-as-a-toddler-but-he-has-regressed-to-being-a-baby

'The comparison was not flattering. On Tuesday night Boris Johnson gave us his third-rate Winston Churchill impression on TV; now Keir Starmer has given his reply. And it wasn’t just Labour supporters wishing Starmer was running the country: there are plenty of Tory MPs who must secretly harbour similar feelings.'

Spot on article, summing up Johnson's performances this week.

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20 minutes ago, Waterdeep said:

It's paywalled but does it specify the Oxford vaccine? Was reading about this earlier on a different site and it said the specific vaccine/s hadn't been disclosed.

No AZ have said they are not involved. GSK/Sanofi aren’t involved either...I’d hazard a guess at the Imperial vaccine as it’s quite a bit behind the others...

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47 minutes ago, Ayrshire Chris said:

Over 7% in Scotland yesterday. Sturgeon talks a good game but there are serious problems especially in city areas. Only 20 miles from us is a town where the police are overwhelmed with trying to deal with house parties and  drinkers gathering in parks. And there is the scandal of care homes, government instructions back in March to clear the hospitals and transfer the elderly to care homes, without testing, resulting in half the deaths in Scotland have been in care homes.  Sturgeon is winning the PR battle but it’s easy to do that when you don’t have to find the cash to pay for everything and just asks for more from Westminster. 

I don't intend to open a whole Scotland debate here as that has been discussed at length elsewhere. I would simply observe that the Scottish Government has very limited borrowing powers so it has little choice but to ask "for more from Westminster" if it wishes to take measures that would require additional funding.

It has asked Westminster for the power to borrow more money. This request has fallen on deaf ears.

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17 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

They insist on their own panel evaluating the data, rather than accepting the decision of the independent panel used in the UK. It’s fairly standard for different jurisdictions to request their own review of any data. The more cynical might view it as politically motivated, but it’s not unusual. There’s loads of drugs that had their approval pulled, only for it to be reinstated by the FDA, while the EMA take their time and review the evidence themselves. So, they are just being thorough. At the moment, the trial is still on track and we may get an interim analysis in the next few weeks. I believe the Pfizer and Moderna trials have loads more interim analyses planned than the Oxford one, so should probably be starting to get an inkling about these early ones all around the same time. 

So not worried about these two* cases of transverse myelitis?

* I'm not sure if we know the first pause was for that reason too do we?

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29 minutes ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

My housemate has tested positive, so now I've gotta self-isolate for two weeks. Can't work from home so won't have much of an income. Will also miss out on college too, so now i'm wondering if I should just drop out.

:(

Can your college do any online lessons?

Hope you and your housemate are ok.

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Two days of hammering F5 on gov.uk and finally got a test for my toddler. 50 miles away... Meanwhile I drove into my nearest drive through centre on the off chance and it had 20 people loitering in hi vis and zero people getting tested. 

It genuinely is a clusterfuck

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4 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

So not worried about these two* cases of transverse myelitis?

* I'm not sure if we know the first pause was for that reason too do we?

I think the first one was undiagnosed MS or something along those lines, the second is reported as transverse myelitis. Really depends on whether it’s the vaccine, and if so, how frequent it is. 1:100,000 wouldn’t stop a vaccine getting approved (there are underlying genetic risk factors at play too). It’s the kind of thing that post-approval monitoring would normally pick up (unless of course it’s not actually that rare, then you’d see a signal for it in phase 3)...viral infection can trigger transverse myelitis and other autoimmune diseases, so the key question is whether the risk is higher with the vaccine or after infection with the virus...

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17 minutes ago, Simsy said:

Can your college do any online lessons?

Hope you and your housemate are ok.

They've split the class into two and each half alternates between actual lessons and online lessons. But the online lessons aren't really lessons at all; they just send us over the presentations & other documents from the phone. Not good when there's loads of stuff involving discussions and group activities which we can't do online.

 

I've got a history assignment due in October, and before then i'll have only had two proper history lessons. No idea how i'm supposed to write an essay with such little preparation. :(

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45 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

No AZ have said they are not involved. GSK/Sanofi aren’t involved either...I’d hazard a guess at the Imperial vaccine as it’s quite a bit behind the others...

Yeah the times and telegraph says imperial 

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11 minutes ago, Leyrulion said:

Some positive news, if queries to NHS 111 are a very early indicator then the fact they're decreasing shows that current restrictions with the rule of 6 are making an impact. 

Hope so. Can just about live with the current restrictions for a few months.

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38 minutes ago, LJS said:

I don't intend to open a whole Scotland debate here as that has been discussed at length elsewhere. I would simply observe that the Scottish Government has very limited borrowing powers so it has little choice but to ask "for more from Westminster" if it wishes to take measures that would require additional funding.

It has asked Westminster for the power to borrow more money. This request has fallen on deaf ears.

I Understand that. 

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42 minutes ago, LJS said:

I don't intend to open a whole Scotland debate here as that has been discussed at length elsewhere. I would simply observe that the Scottish Government has very limited borrowing powers so it has little choice but to ask "for more from Westminster" if it wishes to take measures that would require additional funding.

It has asked Westminster for the power to borrow more money. This request has fallen on deaf ears.

Broad shoulders of the Union innit. Better together etc.

Should BJ allow the borrowing bloody Sturgeon would only extend the furlough scheme in an attempt to stall the virus.

It would probably work as well and how would that look.

Lots of jocks pissed that she’s banned the visiting to other households but perhaps that might make a difference. Time will tell. 

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19 minutes ago, Leyrulion said:

Some positive news, if queries to NHS 111 are a very early indicator then the fact they're decreasing shows that current restrictions with the rule of 6 are making an impact. 

Hmm, so this would be earlier data than the case increase then? If so, then this is encouraging?

Or would we normally expect this to follow the cases numbers, not vice versa?

 

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1 hour ago, Chapple12345 said:

https://www.ft.com/content/b782f666-6847-4487-986c-56d3f5e46c0b

Apologies if this has already been discussed but theres been an interesting and controversial development on the vaccine, they're planning on deliberately infecting fit and healthy volunteers after being immunised with the Oxford vaccines and seeing the immediate effects of it and if it can work 

This is the correct approach and should have been done months ago IMO. Instead of faffing around waiting for people to get naturally infected, they should vaccinate a bunch of volunteers and a placebo group and then immediately try to infect them with covid deliberately. If the placebo group catch it and the real group don’t then we are on to a winner. 

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28 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Yeah the times and telegraph says imperial 

Yeah, that about adds up. They’ve been pretty bullish all along and have some catching up to do. I’m surprised an ethics committee approved it to be honest. There’s almost 200 vaccines at various stages of clinical development, so it’s not like it’s our only hope and that justifies ethically unconventional approaches. Far too many questions not answered by such a trial to support the risk for me, most importantly, how performance in the young healthy people enrolled will translate into performance in the vulnerable population you are aiming to protect...they are testing inhalation as a delivery route (along with Oxford), which is a very useful investigation, but it’s at the experimental stage at the moment and not part of this challenge trial (as far as I can see)...

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15 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

This is the correct approach and should have been done months ago IMO. Instead of faffing around waiting for people to get naturally infected, they should vaccinate a bunch of volunteers and a placebo group and then immediately try to infect them with covid deliberately. If the placebo group catch it and the real group don’t then we are on to a winner. 

Was posting the above as you posted this...unfortunately it’s not that simple. In order to get such a trial approved, you need to minimise the risk by picking the lowest risk cohort for the study. That’s young healthy volunteers. No way you are deliberately infecting vulnerable people with a potentially fatal disease that we have no cure for. So, you are now testing a vaccine in a population other than the one you are hoping to protect and extrapolating the results and hoping it works (ie, not a winner at all)...there’s lots of other things too (how much virus you challenge with and how well that represents different real world exposures...whether an intramuscularly delivered vaccine can induce sufficient mucosal immunity to stop you from picking up and spreading the virus rather than just stopping you from getting sick...and a bunch of other variables that basically can’t be answered by rushing things). This kind of trial for a disease we have no cure for is highly risky and for me, can’t give clear enough answers to justify it. 

Edited by Toilet Duck
Typos!
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21 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

Yeah, that about adds up. They’ve been pretty bullish all along and have some catching up to do. I’m surprised an ethics committee approved it to be honest. There’s almost 200 vaccines at various stages of clinical development, so it’s not like it’s our only hope and that justifies ethically unconventional approaches. Far too many questions not answered by such a trial to support the risk for me, most importantly, how performance in the young healthy people enrolled will translate into performance in the vulnerable population you are aiming to protect...they are testing inhalation as a delivery route (along with Oxford), which is a very useful investigation, but it’s at the experimental stage at the moment and not part of this challenge trial (as far as I can see)...

From that, as well as imperial, Oxford are doing a challenge trial to see if people can be reinfected once they've had covid.

 

Says they are looking for a 'salvaged therapy first as well. What would that be?

20200924_003027.jpg

Edited by zahidf
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