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When will this shit end?


Chrisp1986

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13 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

The airports were fine to be honest, Heathrow was super quiet on the way out and back and Frankfurt where I flew from on the way back was equally quiet, neither had queues for security or passport control and everyone was wearing masks all the time.

My flight on the way out was super quiet, I had a whole three rows to myself so it felt really relaxing. The one on the way back was much more stressful (it was a full plane), I put myself right in the back corner to limit the amount of people around me, but the two girls in front of me pretty much had their masks below their chin the whole plane, so with about 20 minutes left to go I asked if they could wear them properly and they were super hostile to me, so it wasn’t particularly fun. [b]I also don’t understand why the plane companies are bringing round food and drinks as it encourages people to take their masks off. [/b]The two people on the row beside me were fine and had their masks on the whole way except to have a drink of water, and I just kept mine on the whole time, and I was wearing one of the masks that they were in the Intensive care wards as my aunt said it should protect me even if others around me have their masks off. So hopefully it’s ok...

 

Certainly in the UK rules, one of the exemptions to face coverings wearing on public transport is that you can remove your covering to eat and drink, but you should consider the length and nature of your journey when determining how necessary that would be. There's no hard and fast rules on what's allowed, it boils down to "don't be a dick"

 

For example, if you're getting a 10 minute bus down the road to go to tesco, keep your covering on. Not doing so constitutes being a dick. But if you're getting a 4 hour train from London to Edinburgh, you can absolutely take it off for 10 minutes to eat a sandwich and drink a can of coke. It would be pretty unreasonable not to allow that. I would suggest you should do it in between stations though as it's easier to maintain a 2m distance when you don't have people going up and down the aisles to board or leave the train.

 

Now suppose its 35 degrees outside and the hottest day of the summer. In that case it's more likely to drink water even on a short journey.

 

 

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54144130

“JD Wetherspoon has said that 66 of its workers have tested positive for the coronavirus but maintains that visiting pubs is safe.”

When no staff or customers are wearing masks I literally don’t understand how pubs are “safe” at the moment. Honestly until we change this there will keep being transmission in these locations because having people moving about in an indoor environment without masks simply is going to cause transmission between guests and staff, and it’s especially not fair on the staff.

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2 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

 

Certainly in the UK rules, one of the exemptions to face coverings wearing on public transport is that you can remove your covering to eat and drink, but you should consider the length and nature of your journey when determining how necessary that would be. There's no hard and fast rules on what's allowed, it boils down to "don't be a dick"

 

For example, if you're getting a 10 minute bus down the road to go to tesco, keep your covering on. Not doing so constitutes being a dick. But if you're getting a 4 hour train from London to Edinburgh, you can absolutely take it off for 10 minutes to eat a sandwich and drink a can of coke. It would be pretty unreasonable not to allow that. I would suggest you should do it in between stations though as it's easier to maintain a 2m distance when you don't have people going up and down the aisles to board or leave the train.

 

Now suppose its 35 degrees outside and the hottest day of the summer. In that case it's more likely to drink water even on a short journey.

 

 

Yeah I mean these girls in front of me started off with pringles, then with twirls, then with something else and then something else again. Whilst they were eating I didn’t say anything but when they turned the lights off to start the descent for landing they just took them off completely and weren’t eating or drinking so that’s when I stepped in and had words. I was not impressed in the slightest as the flight was only an hour, it’s not very hard to keep a mask on for the majority of this and I just found it disrespectful to others to be honest.

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7 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

We need to get people like Sumption on the case, he's one of the few talking sense,

 

Really?

Straight off the back this joker makes the dumb point about how its young people leading the spike so it doesn't matter, But the whole reason you put the restriction in now, is so young people don't spread it to the older generations. Young people who work in most public facing roles, hospitality, retail etc.  Also he makes the same tired point that you can meet up in a pub or workplace with more people than six. So the restrictions are too strict but not strict enough? Also everyone knows that the reason the restriction is the first to be reintroduced is because the economy is suffering too, so the gov dont want to shut pubs, schools or anything that makes money, so they make restrictions on social gatherings so that the economy doesn't have to be shut down again. Is it too little too late probably. 

I'm concerned about some rights and liberties being in the government hands. But I don't not worry about the government wanting to take away our freedom by implementing lockdown in a pandemic. Especially since at the first convenient moment the government eases restrictions, often too early because they want to save the economy and a lot of the things people have been calling authoritarian like mask rules or this rule of six have come after u-turns or the government constantly saying that they don't want to implement these draconian rules. I think it's stupid to think that the government is intentionally taking away our personal rights right now, obviously you should always keep an eye on how your government treats you. But I just don't see any of the governments actions as intentional or too control the masses anyway after the corona virus pandemic. 

At the end of the day, you can say these rules are too draconian and against our rights, but this rule of six is not far enough in my opinion, and the virus will spread again and we will see infections spread to older people and death will rise (though hopefully less than before) and they'll implement new measures far too late. 


 

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Rule of 6 is a tricky one, yes it’s going to have some positive effect, but it’s not going to be enough.

Mass migration back to schools, universities and the work place is more likely what’s going to spark a drive in cases and there needs to be a higher focus on how to make these places safe, as the current measures in place aren’t good enough in my opinion.

Not to mention at the moment there is transmission in restaurants and pubs and no effort is being made to minimise that. Measures in restaurants and pubs go as far as having a hand sanitiser at the door and some are potentially wiping tables down, so it’s really not cutting it to be honest. I’m shocked people can cram into a pub without masks but can’t go shopping without one, but as said before I suspect they don’t want to put people “off”, yet in Germany people don’t seem to be put off going to restaurants and bars despite the mask rules, they seem perfectly satiated with them.

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In the midst of a pandemic, people really shouldn’t need Government advice as to whether they should be visiting those most vulnerable or not - regardless of the new gathering guidelines - use your own common sense. 
My grandad is approaching 80 and has severe COPD - me and my family will not be visiting him until all of this is over, for his own safety. We’ve taken that approach ourselves and everybody should do the same. Whether 4 or 400 people are allowed to gather will not change how we act on this.

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What I also found interesting over my time away was in germany they don’t use the term “mask” they use the term “Mund-Naseschutz“ which quite literally means “mouth and nose covering”- so it’s very specific to say both your mouth and nose should be covered, whereas in the uk the term “face covering” is more ambiguous.

Also, in the UK, if someone is not wearing a mask I have never seen anyone get told off, not once! But in germany, at the entrance to a shopping centre, the security guard was policing it, at McDonald’s the woman at the entrance was being so firm and not letting anyone in without one, on the train the guard came up and down making sure people were wearing them the whole time. And when I was in restaurants or a bar if someone had forgotten to put their mask on when moving around immediately the staff would say to them “Maske aufsetzen bitte” which means “put your mask on”. In the space of 5 days I’ve seen more people being told to put their masks on if they aren’t wearing them or wearing them properly than I’ve seen in 2 months over here (as I haven’t seen anyone be told off once). Also there didn’t really seem to be an emphasis on hidden medical exemptions over there like we have over here, it was more if you can’t wear a mask then you’re not coming in unless you provide documentation; they weren’t just taking people’s word for it.

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8 minutes ago, st dan said:

In the midst of a pandemic, people really shouldn’t need Government advice as to whether they should be visiting those most vulnerable or not - regardless of the new gathering guidelines - use your own common sense. 
My grandad is approaching 80 and has severe COPD - me and my family will not be visiting him until all of this is over, for his own safety. We’ve taken that approach ourselves and everybody should do the same. Whether 4 or 400 people are allowed to gather will not change how we act on this.


I mean sure, but you have to be fine with the idea that:

 

A - his health may suffer due to loneliness

B - At 80 and with underlying health conditions, he might die of natural causes at any points. As a family member of mine did during the lockdown. If that happens, you’ve basically isolated him for no benefit and let him live out his last days in isolation. 

 

People can choose what’s best for their own specific circumstances, but I’m a bit concerned that “avoid Covid at all costs” will have unintended consequences. 

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6 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

What I also found interesting over my time away was in germany they don’t use the term “mask” they use the term “Mund-Naseschutz“ which quite literally means “mouth and nose covering”- so it’s very specific to say both your mouth and nose should be covered, whereas in the uk the term “face covering” is more ambiguous.

Also, in the UK, if someone is not wearing a mask I have never seen anyone get told off, not once! But in germany, at the entrance to a shopping centre, the security guard was policing it, at McDonald’s the woman at the entrance was being so firm and not letting anyone in without one, on the train the guard came up and down making sure people were wearing them the whole time. And when I was in restaurants or a bar if someone had forgotten to put their mask on when moving around immediately the staff would say to them “Maske aufsetzen bitte” which means “put your mask on”. In the space of 5 days I’ve seen more people being told to put their masks on if they aren’t wearing them or wearing them properly than I’ve seen in 2 months over here (as I haven’t seen anyone be told off once). Also there didn’t really seem to be an emphasis on hidden medical exemptions over there like we have over here, it was more if you can’t wear a mask then you’re not coming in unless you provide documentation; they weren’t just taking people’s word for it.


The word “mask” should basically never be used. We had a debate about this on Friday when you were offline. “Face covering” is correct but I quite like this “mouth and nose covering” term you mention. As long as we minimise usage of “mask” then I’m happy 

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6 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:


The word “mask” should basically never be used. We had a debate about this on Friday when you were offline. “Face covering” is correct but I quite like this “mouth and nose covering” term you mention. As long as we minimise usage of “mask” then I’m happy 

Most of us were pretty unconvinced IIRC.

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3 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:


I mean sure, but you have to be fine with the idea that:

 

A - his health may suffer due to loneliness

B - At 80 and with underlying health conditions, he might die of natural causes at any points. As a family member of mine did during the lockdown. If that happens, you’ve basically isolated him for no benefit and let him live out his last days in isolation. 

 

People can choose what’s best for their own specific circumstances, but I’m a bit concerned that “avoid Covid at all costs” will have unintended consequences. 

To be clear, this means in his home - we’ve all been popping round into his garden over the summer and will continue to FaceTime etc over winter. Luckily he’s been up to date with his technology (after many painful hours of showing him how!!). He also luckily has my grandma so is not alone - if he were then maybe we’d all be thinking differently  

As I say, it’s the decision we’ve all made. My wife is a respiratory physiotherapist working directly with COVID patients on a daily basis, and my young child is in nursery. I also commute into a major city on public transport everyday, so we couldn’t be much more high risk if we tried!! We just couldn’t live with ourselves if we popped round for a cuppa and passed it on to him - especially knowing the effects would likely be devastating for him.

And as I say, this is a decision we’ve made regardless of guidelines, and others really need take control on their own decisions on things like this.

 

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6 minutes ago, st dan said:

To be clear, this means in his home - we’ve all been popping round into his garden over the summer and will continue to FaceTime etc over winter. Luckily he’s been up to date with his technology (after many painful hours of showing him how!!). He also luckily has my grandma so is not alone - if he were then maybe we’d all be thinking differently  

As I say, it’s the decision we’ve all made. My wife is a respiratory physiotherapist working directly with COVID patients on a daily basis, and my young child is in nursery. I also commute into a major city on public transport everyday, so we couldn’t be much more high risk if we tried!! We just couldn’t live with ourselves if we popped round for a cuppa and passed it on to him - especially knowing the effects would likely be devastating for him.

And as I say, this is a decision we’ve made regardless of guidelines, and others really need take control on their own decisions on things like this.

 


Yeah I would say visiting from a 2m distance in the garden is probably the best of both worlds in this scenario. But I know people who have vulnerable relatives that seem to think mothballing them is in their best interests, and I find that disproportionate and in need of nuance 

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39 minutes ago, BobWillis said:

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Follow the science. The science that can’t tell if you’re infected now or in April. 

The recent rise in cases is what has triggered the new "rule of 6", they claim that infections are on the rise because of the case numbers, people are looking at the daily case graph and see things going out of control but you need to look at the testing that is giving those numbers, as above, the number of false positive increases with increased testing especially when cases are low, so there is a baseline of cases that are not really there, but the most obvious reason that cases are rising is because they are now testing in high infection areas, they have identified which areas need priority for testing (for track and trace) and are concentrating their efforts there, that will obviously show more positives but that doesn't mean there is a massive increase in cases overall, just that in the areas with higher case numbers you will find more positives. If you only tested in London at the moment, for example you would get a much lower number of positives. The only numbers that matter are deaths and people in hospital because of covid, and that number is NOT the people admitted number that is published, that number includes anyone going into hospital for any reason who has tested positive, they could be asymtomatic and in hospital for an unrelated reason but are still classed as covid admissions. 

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11 minutes ago, Mouseboy11 said:

Wonder if Keir caught it off his kids?
 

 

Keir isn’t showing symptoms, one of his family members are.

12 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

You don’t need to wear a mask. You need to wear a mouth and nose covering. Said covering could be a mask, but doesn’t necessarily need to be. 

We all know the difference between the 2 words, we know what it is meant when someone says mask or covering.  Just because someone has said mask doesn’t mean we are going to rush out to buy medical grade face masks. 

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Who'd of thought you should listen to teachers more when planning how to safely reopen schools. Starmer's already screwed when it all goes to pot because Johnson already got him to publicly state it was safe to send your kids back to school at pmqs

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