When will this shit end?

[Fuzzy Afro]

17 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

hey...seriously? If struggling ring your GP, or samaritans or something. And know that things may be about to get a bit worse again, but then they will get better. 2021 will be a good year.

What I’m worried about is that I moved in with my partner for the original lockdown but it would be highly impractical to do so again, and if we end up getting banned from visiting one another then I don’t know what I’d do 

[stuie]

6 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

What I’m worried about is that I moved in with my partner for the original lockdown but it would be highly impractical to do so again, and if we end up getting banned from visiting one another then I don’t know what I’d do 

That’s just not going to happen. Please try not to worry. I understand that’s easier to say than do. 

[zahidf]

9 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

What I’m worried about is that I moved in with my partner for the original lockdown but it would be highly impractical to do so again, and if we end up getting banned from visiting one another then I don’t know what I’d do 

Not that i would advocate breaking the law of course, but there is zero way the police can enforce couples not seeing each other and i suspect 99% of couples wont be adhering to it

[Ozanne]

1 hour ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

And plenty of people haven’t, which is why it’s going to be a rule now. That’s the point. 

Yes I get that. I said that I feel they should’ve been following the guidelines. Just because something isn’t a law doesn’t mean it can be ignored. 
 

Can’t you support bubble with your partner?

Edited September 8, 2020 by Ozanne

[SwedgeAntilles]

@stuartbert two hats off topic but I can't believe it's taken until now for someone to go for that avatar. 

Great work.

[Zoo Music Girl]

44 minutes ago, parsonjack said:

Sorry been away for a couple of days.....here's the graph of the ratio between positive tests/tests carried out.  The peak rate in late June was around 0.014 which equates to approx 1 positive case in 77 tests.  This dropped to a low of 0.0032 on 10 July which equated to 1 positive case in 312 tests.

Recent weeks have seen the ratio climbing gradually but as we now don't get testing figures until Thursday's the graph doesn't show data after 2 Sept, and is therefore yet to take account of the big rises in last couple of days.  By my reckoning though we will need a testing figure of 214,000 to stay under the June peak....and that would be some 5000 higher than the peak daily tests recorded so far.... 🤔

 

Thanks for the update!

[efcfanwirral]

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-09-08/up-to-35-billion-of-furlough-cash-stolen-or-paid-out-in-error-hmrc-boss-says

And there we go - this will be used as the reason for no more furlough, same reason that newly (within quite a large timeframe) self employed people were completely excluded from the help scheme (see Excluded UK), despite being able to prove a whole year's worth of earnings if asked. I was one of those but thankfully didn't need it, but the government excuse was basically "self employed don't declare their earnings anyway and there would be too many fraudulent claims". 

Same will be used following this revelation for whatever comes next 

Edited September 8, 2020 by efcfanwirral

[Fuzzy Afro]

8 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Yes I get that. I said that I feel they should’ve been following the guidelines. Just because something isn’t a law doesn’t mean it can be ignored. 
 

Can’t you support bubble with your partner?

No because we both have housemates 

[DeanoL]

1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

I treat them as the same. As I said I don’t need it to be law to carry out the guidelines. 

I try but it's hard to keep 2m away from people who aren't also trying to keep 2m away from you. If you managed that you're better than me!

[squirrelarmy]

21 minutes ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

@stuartbert two hats off topic but I can't believe it's taken until now for someone to go for that avatar. 

Great work.

I preferred his previous one. 

[ace56blaa]

22 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-09-08/up-to-35-billion-of-furlough-cash-stolen-or-paid-out-in-error-hmrc-boss-says

And there we go - this will be used as the reason for no more furlough, same reason that newly (within quite a large timeframe) self employed people were completely excluded from the help scheme (see Excluded UK), despite being able to prove a whole year's worth of earnings if asked. I was one of those but thankfully didn't need it, but the government excuse was basically "self employed don't declare their earnings anyway and there would be too many fraudulent claims". 

Same will be used following this revelation for whatever comes next 

Government: "Ah well, people are our exploiting our furlough scheme for money, we could have just don't UBI but no we needed to make a incredibly complicated system, that puts the futures of millions of UK staff in the hands of businesses currently feeling the effects of a pandemic and recession, as well as just ignoring millions more, giving them no income in a pandemic where job loss is at all time low and it's hard to find more work, the same hours as you had before - but now we'll end furlough and let millions go jobless and homeless because of these dastardly scammers, who somehow stole millions from a government scheme and that's there fault not us, the great world beating government, anyway enjoy your inspiring foodbanks"

- But seriously are they big fraudulent claims in the Germany and other European furlough schemes.? Because if they is, they are still extending furlough so no excuse for UK not and there is not much fraud in other furlough schemes what does that say about Rishi and money arm of the tories.

[Ryan1984]

Very worst-case (?) scenario here:

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Ryan1984

[Memory Man]

Thats way over the top. I hate the tories as much as anyone but i genuinely dont fear a true 2nd wave that goes on to overwhelm the nhs. Cases are in the under 35s and are not resulting in mass hospitalisations.

[Matt42]

Just now, Memory Man said:

Thats way over the top. I hate the tories as much as anyone but i genuinely dont fear a true 2nd wave that goes on to overwhelm the nhs. Cases are in the under 35s and are not resulting in mass hospitalisations.

Yeah that’s a bit dramatic. Although coronavirus + brexit is going to be a bit rough.

[Zoo Music Girl]

11 minutes ago, Ryan1984 said:

Very worst-case (?) scenario here:

 

Depressing thread but I fear a lot of that is accurate.

[efcfanwirral]

33 minutes ago, ace56blaa said:

Government: "Ah well, people are our exploiting our furlough scheme for money, we could have just don't UBI but no we needed to make a incredibly complicated system, that puts the futures of millions of UK staff in the hands of businesses currently feeling the effects of a pandemic and recession, as well as just ignoring millions more, giving them no income in a pandemic where job loss is at all time low and it's hard to find more work, the same hours as you had before - but now we'll end furlough and let millions go jobless and homeless because of these dastardly scammers, who somehow stole millions from a government scheme and that's there fault not us, the great world beating government, anyway enjoy your inspiring foodbanks"

- But seriously are they big fraudulent claims in the Germany and other European furlough schemes.? Because if they is, they are still extending furlough so no excuse for UK not and there is not much fraud in other furlough schemes what does that say about Rishi and money arm of the tories.

I think it does work 2 ways - I think there is an element of our country that always wants to see what they can "get away with" to get what they can out of the government. It's like benefit cheating - it undoubtedly happens but the Tories exaggerate it to excuse not really having a decent system. I'm also sure a lot of self employed don't declare their earnings. It does give he government an argument to the public to not do these things which is a shame, I dont know what the public attitude is in other countries but not all come off (from the outside) as selfish as some elements of our society. 

But where do they get that attitude from? Being as immoral as possible and trying to break the rules to make money is what a Tory government is there for.

The problem is that it is a government's job to implement a system like this to deter fraud - like you say not scrap the system because a percentage are fraudsters.

If they made it clear that there would be checks and serious jail time for actual fraud (not mistakes), it would go a long way towards getting the money to the right places -

like the self employed thing - it all happened over the end of a tax year so a whole year of earnings were ready to be filed for a lot of us (our first).  18 months of self employed income for me but according to the government's rules it was only to the end of the tax year before, where my PAYE earnings were higher over the 12 months so was exempt, despite earning more than that in the 12 months of the 19/20 tax year. It felt like punishment for leaving the corporate grind if I'm honest (on principle- my work slowed but didnt stop luckily)  - which surprises me as I'd have expected them to want more to give up their employment rights...

instead of demonising us it should've just been "if you only have the most recent year of earnings file it and claim, but you WILL be audited, maybe not now or next month but we WILL find out and we will get the money back and prosecute if you have claimed fraudulently.". And nobody could complain at that. Make rules, enforce them. Easy. 

All this shows me they actually dont want to help people because they dont believe in it, which means the unemployment crisis is going to be way more brutal here than other western "democracies" 

Edited September 8, 2020 by efcfanwirral

[reflekting]

1 minute ago, Matt42 said:

Yeah that’s a bit dramatic. Although coronavirus + brexit is going to be a bit rough.

Wait till the Tories actually start taxing the middle classes and watch the Tory press go ape-shit. That will be something to behold. 

[steviewevie]

11 minutes ago, Ryan1984 said:

Very worst-case (?) scenario here:

 

definitely worst case. Hopefully we're better prepared this time, we have these steroids to deal with it, and social distancing and mask wearing plus increased vaccine use means flu is less virulent. Hopefully.

[steviewevie]

Just now, steviewevie said:

definitely worst case. Hopefully we're better prepared this time, we have these steroids to deal with it, and social distancing and mask wearing plus increased vaccine use means flu is less virulent. Hopefully.

the mass unemployment thing could be true though...infact the hit to the economy could be fuckin massive.

[SDSM]

32 minutes ago, ace56blaa said:

Government: "Ah well, people are our exploiting our furlough scheme for money, we could have just don't UBI but no we needed to make a incredibly complicated system, that puts the futures of millions of UK staff in the hands of businesses currently feeling the effects of a pandemic and recession, as well as just ignoring millions more, giving them no income in a pandemic where job loss is at all time low and it's hard to find more work, the same hours as you had before - but now we'll end furlough and let millions go jobless and homeless because of these dastardly scammers, who somehow stole millions from a government scheme and that's there fault not us, the great world beating government, anyway enjoy your inspiring foodbanks"

- But seriously are they big fraudulent claims in the Germany and other European furlough schemes.? Because if they is, they are still extending furlough so no excuse for UK not and there is not much fraud in other furlough schemes what does that say about Rishi and money arm of the tories.

Currently, Audit Committees are putting together testing and DD over claims and how assurance can be gained for these tests. There is a contingent liability being recoreded for the furlough schemes until these tests are proved to show no fraud has been detected. This is going to be complex as will require data assurance specialists who can look at IT system logins and even going further CCTV and door swipe cards. I'm assuming that there is going to be big costs involved and therefore penalties will be huge. I'm glad im leaving the industry as it going to get very complicated going forward. Obviously, Not every furlough claim will be tested and only a couple of employees on furlough will be subject to a audit, There is no personal liability the onus is on the company to claim correctly.

[Zoo Music Girl]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

the mass unemployment thing could be true though...infact the hit to the economy could be fuckin massive.

Yeah I think he's bang on about a lot to the economic stuff in that thread. Brexit is absolutely going to kick our arse.

[jparx]

20 minutes ago, Ryan1984 said:

Very worst-case (?) scenario here:

 

Ha. That's incredibly over dramatic IMO, and that's consider I feel especially pessimistic about it all today.

[Ozanne]

10 minutes ago, Memory Man said:

Thats way over the top. I hate the tories as much as anyone but i genuinely dont fear a true 2nd wave that goes on to overwhelm the nhs. Cases are in the under 35s and are not resulting in mass hospitalisations.

It’s not just hospitalisations, under 35s can still suffer and experience long covid which won’t be admitted to hospitals. 

[Waterdeep]

5 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

It’s not just hospitalisations, under 35s can still suffer and experience long covid which won’t be admitted to hospitals. 

There seems to be a gap in treatment options for those with 'mild' cases not in hospital. Advances in treatment for hospitalised patients is great but I haven't heard of anything yet, apart from supplements, for the milder cases which we know can also cause serious damage and long drawn out complications.

[Crazyfool01]

5 hours ago, steviewevie said:

Are parkrun being a bit optimistic? October is when cases could really be increasing. I know it's outside, but large groups of people running together..?

I guess they could send them off in waves ....