When will this shit end?

[Toilet Duck]

1 minute ago, Yoghurt on a Stick said:

Hello stuartbert two hats,

Yeah, I think what I said was accurate at the time, but now hopefully not so. I still think that this could go on for much longer than people expect / hope for. Obviously if a vaccine is found sooner rather than later then that'll be a game changer.

I haven't looked in to it, but apparently the virus started in bats, then went to pangolins, and then humans. Makes me wonder why our livestock and domestic animals might not be susceptible too. 

 

To be honest, nobody is entirely sure yet. The virus is stable, so when we do have a vaccine, it should work for some time. There are questions though about how much immunological memory those that get a mild or even an asymptomatic infection might have. However, more and more evidence is starting to mount up suggesting that the BCG vaccine is at least partly effective. It was designed to protect against TB, but confers protection to other respiratory diseases as well (and even malaria). New trials looking at this are underway, if they work, those who have had it already may be more or less immune (there have been lots of documented examples of people who seemed naturally immune, this may be why, or their innate immune response may be the same as somebody who received the BCG). Those who have not had it (including me!) would need to get it. Of course, it’s been in short supply for years, but could be ramped up very quickly (mass vaccination in a few months time would be feasible)...who knows, have to see how the current trials pan out, but the epidemiological data supporting this is mounting.

What everyone is witnessing now is Science and Medicine in real-time. These types of discoveries happen all the time, but once we follow them up, they often don’t work out. So, you dust yourself off and start again. Usually it just doesn’t happen with everyone watching! Normally you only find out when things work and they get used to treat people. So, while some of these things might seem like false hope at times, it’s how pretty much every discovery that you now take for granted was made. Some of what has been found out over the last few months will be useful, some won’t (but might be another time)...hang in there, it will end!

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

28 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

To be honest, nobody is entirely sure yet. The virus is stable, so when we do have a vaccine, it should work for some time. There are questions though about how much immunological memory those that get a mild or even an asymptomatic infection might have. However, more and more evidence is starting to mount up suggesting that the BCG vaccine is at least partly effective. It was designed to protect against TB, but confers protection to other respiratory diseases as well (and even malaria). New trials looking at this are underway, if they work, those who have had it already may be more or less immune (there have been lots of documented examples of people who seemed naturally immune, this may be why, or their innate immune response may be the same as somebody who received the BCG). Those who have not had it (including me!) would need to get it. Of course, it’s been in short supply for years, but could be ramped up very quickly (mass vaccination in a few months time would be feasible)...who knows, have to see how the current trials pan out, but the epidemiological data supporting this is mounting.

What everyone is witnessing now is Science and Medicine in real-time. These types of discoveries happen all the time, but once we follow them up, they often don’t work out. So, you dust yourself off and start again. Usually it just doesn’t happen with everyone watching! Normally you only find out when things work and they get used to treat people. So, while some of these things might seem like false hope at times, it’s how pretty much every discovery that you now take for granted was made. Some of what has been found out over the last few months will be useful, some won’t (but might be another time)...hang in there, it will end!

Interesting post.

One of my mates mentioned something about anti malaria tablets ( chloroquine) improving the treatment / reducing the death rates of people with the coronavirus. However, this was some weeks back so not sure where that is at now. 

[bamber]

I took a photo of Kelis, I don't remember doing that but found this on my phone from March 7, 2020

This would be the exact moment I stopped having any fun anymore.

Glad I had this, will carry me through.

Kelis has a new series on Netflix starting next week.

Cooking with Cannabis.

Edited April 10, 2020 by bamber
I thought it trough.

[bamber]

1 hour ago, Yoghurt on a Stick said:

Hello stuartbert two hats,

Yeah, I think what I said was accurate at the time, but now hopefully not so. I still think that this could go on for much longer than people expect / hope for. Obviously if a vaccine is found sooner rather than later then that'll be a game changer.

I haven't looked in to it, but apparently the virus started in bats, then went to pangolins, and then humans. Makes me wonder why our livestock and domestic animals might not be susceptible too. 

 

Bats and Pangolins are carnivorous. Even the most prolific carnivorous human societies have rarely eaten mammals that are themselves carnivorous. Most societies subsist on herbivores and veg. Eating  carnivores has always always been a bit of a no-no.

(Bats are mammals that can fly, awesome, that super-human ability makes them most resistant to most viruses as it turns out.)

In parts of Asia it is deemed acceptable. This is the problem.

 

Vegan solves this.   

 

Why, given the choice of chicken or fish or veg or bat would you go for bat? Some choose bat. I don't understand that? 

[Lycra]

Lost 4, successfully resusitated 1 and came away leaving 1 other who had chosen to give up the fight to remain alive. That was Mrs Lycra's day. She had to briefly let her inner emotions out so she could rejoin the battle again today......

Stay home, stay way from others, stay safe

[Neil]

6 hours ago, Toilet Duck said:

However, more and more evidence is starting to mount up suggesting that the BCG vaccine is at least partly effective. It was designed to protect against TB, but confers protection to other respiratory diseases as well (and even malaria). New trials looking at this are underway, if they work, those who have had it already may be more or less immune (there have been lots of documented examples of people who seemed naturally immune, this may be why, or their innate immune response may be the same as somebody who received the BCG). Those who have not had it (including me!) would need to get it. Of course, it’s been in short supply for years, but could be ramped up very quickly (mass vaccination in a few months time would be feasible)...who knows, have to see how the current trials pan out, but the epidemiological data supporting this is mounting.

I'm struggling to believe there's much in the BCG thing, as the vast majority of the UK population will have had it apart from those aged over 67.

Because of that, if BCG made much difference, I would have thought there'd be a noticable difference in infection rates between those aged 65 and those aged 70. From the numbers I've seen reported on TV and in news reports there doesn't seem to be anything there.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Neil

[stuartbert two hats]

10 minutes ago, Neil said:

I'm struggling to believe there's much in the BCG thing, as the vast majority of the UK population will have had it apart from those aged over 67.

Because of that, if BCG made much difference, I would have thought there'd be a noticable difference in infection rates between those aged 65 and those aged 70. From the numbers I've seen reported on TV and in news reports there doesn't seem to be anything there.

The BCG doesn't give lifelong protection. It would have worn off for those in their 60s.

[yehbutnobut]

19 minutes ago, Lycra said:

Lost 4, successfully resusitated 1 and came away leaving 1 other who had chosen to give up the fight to remain alive. That was Mrs Lycra's day. She had to briefly let her inner emotions out so she could rejoin the battle again today......

Stay home, stay way from others, stay safe

Shouts out to Mrs Lycra. What she and all her colleagues are doing is utterly incredible. Absolute heroes, now let's all stay the fuck at home for them xxx

❤💚🧡💜💙

[chuckles07]

41 minutes ago, Lycra said:

Lost 4, successfully resusitated 1 and came away leaving 1 other who had chosen to give up the fight to remain alive. That was Mrs Lycra's day. She had to briefly let her inner emotions out so she could rejoin the battle again today......

Stay home, stay way from others, stay safe

 

17 minutes ago, yehbutnobut said:

Shouts out to Mrs Lycra. What she and all her colleagues are doing is utterly incredible. Absolute heroes, now let's all stay the fuck at home for them xxx

❤💚🧡💜💙

This. 👏🏾👏🏾

[Neil]

1 hour ago, stuartbert two hats said:

The BCG doesn't give lifelong protection. It would have worn off for those in their 60s.

ahh, i'd missed that. Thanks. About 20 years, from googling.

[steviewevie]

8 hours ago, Toilet Duck said:

To be honest, nobody is entirely sure yet. The virus is stable, so when we do have a vaccine, it should work for some time. There are questions though about how much immunological memory those that get a mild or even an asymptomatic infection might have. However, more and more evidence is starting to mount up suggesting that the BCG vaccine is at least partly effective. It was designed to protect against TB, but confers protection to other respiratory diseases as well (and even malaria). New trials looking at this are underway, if they work, those who have had it already may be more or less immune (there have been lots of documented examples of people who seemed naturally immune, this may be why, or their innate immune response may be the same as somebody who received the BCG). Those who have not had it (including me!) would need to get it. Of course, it’s been in short supply for years, but could be ramped up very quickly (mass vaccination in a few months time would be feasible)...who knows, have to see how the current trials pan out, but the epidemiological data supporting this is mounting.

What everyone is witnessing now is Science and Medicine in real-time. These types of discoveries happen all the time, but once we follow them up, they often don’t work out. So, you dust yourself off and start again. Usually it just doesn’t happen with everyone watching! Normally you only find out when things work and they get used to treat people. So, while some of these things might seem like false hope at times, it’s how pretty much every discovery that you now take for granted was made. Some of what has been found out over the last few months will be useful, some won’t (but might be another time)...hang in there, it will end!

Yes, heard about this BCG vaccine thing. Everyone here had it till up to 2005 I think. Not sure about other countries, my partner (who is Japanese) thinks they have it still in Japan and that was the thinking behind the low rates there...but that could be about to change.

[Toilet Duck]

1 hour ago, Neil said:

I'm struggling to believe there's much in the BCG thing, as the vast majority of the UK population will have had it apart from those aged over 67.

Because of that, if BCG made much difference, I would have thought there'd be a noticable difference in infection rates between those aged 65 and those aged 70. From the numbers I've seen reported on TV and in news reports there doesn't seem to be anything there.

Well, I was born in Leeds, in the 70s, never got the BCG. It was discontinued. Started up again for a while, then fizzled out. My wife who was born in Dublin in the 70s, did get it, but then it fizzled out again. Even in China, vaccination became lax in the 60s and 70s. It’s a pattern that is repeated across the developed world and tallies with the median age of cases in most places. Median age of fatalities is much higher and the benefit of vaccination is probably outweighed by the natural deterioration in innate immunity in people over 80. Developing world still sees a lot of TB, so vaccination is more prevalent and countries that have mandatory vaccination strategies have lower case numbers, flatter curves and lower mortality rates. 

But it’s not just a correlation with patterns of infection. There’s a biological reason why the vaccine might confer some protection. It acts like a volume control on the innate immune system (the non-specific part of our defence against infection), as well as stimulating the adaptive part to make antibodies against TB (the specific part of our immune system). The best way I can describe it is that it turns our non-specific defences against infection up to 11...Some of the studies looking at BCG correct for every confounding factor they can measure (including stringent public health interventions and cultural differences), and there’s still a significant correlation with transmission rates and mortality. As always, it may not turn out to be useful, but we’d be remiss to ignore and not look into it.

[stuartbert two hats]

5 minutes ago, Neil said:

ahh, i'd missed that. Thanks. About 20 years, from googling.

And we stopped doing it about 15 years ago! I guess it should show up in the data with people in their late twenties/early thirties having some protection? 

Edited April 10, 2020 by stuartbert two hats

[Neil]

4 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

And we stopped doing it about 15 years ago! I guess it should show up in the data with people in their late twenties/early thirties having some protection? 

or even more strongly, in the proportion of cases amongst the young in places which still have it compared to the proportion of cases amongst the young in places which don't.

[stuartbert two hats]

Just now, Neil said:

or even more strongly, in the proportion of cases amongst the young in places which still have it compared to the proportion of cases amongst the young in places which don't.

Internationally? I think that's right. Not caught up with those articles yet, but I guessed that was what was being reported on.

Need to add to the reading list!

[Neil]

17 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

Well, I was born in Leeds, in the 70s, never got the BCG. It was discontinued.

slightly confused for why you didn't get it. It was govt policy from 1953 to 2005 to vaccinate all school children.

There was perhaps a parental opt-out, but from what I can remember almost all (if not all) kids had it in my time.

[Crazyfool01]

I was born in 1976 and definately had it .. I fainted beforehand !! I blame the heat in the corridor where we lined up ... ironic that I now have to inject 4 x per day !!   

[charlierc]

8 hours ago, Yoghurt on a Stick said:

Interesting post.

One of my mates mentioned something about anti malaria tablets ( chloroquine) improving the treatment / reducing the death rates of people with the coronavirus. However, this was some weeks back so not sure where that is at now. 

This has been the shitshow in the USA as Trump began to rave about this as a miracle option to begin to control the crisis, while America's medical experts have been more cautious. This in turn has lead to more arguments, to the point where Trump stopped the infectious disease expert Dr. Fauci answering a question on it at a press conference this week even after he said in the same conference "I'm not a doctor". Plus Fox News doing their usual thing of going "Everyone else wants this to fail because Trump endorsed it", which isn't helpful.

Anecdotally, it seems to work on some but not all cases, while Sweden has officially abandoned a trial on it. I think its one of those things that would be great if proven to work, but it needs clear proof it works otherwise it might just cause more bother than it solves.

[Toilet Duck]

28 minutes ago, Neil said:

slightly confused for why you didn't get it. It was govt policy from 1953 to 2005 to vaccinate all school children.

There was perhaps a parental opt-out, but from what I can remember almost all (if not all) kids had it in my time.

Nope, my sister was born in the same hospital the following year (Irish twins 😂) and she got it! Basically, while it may have been policy, it wasn't mandatory and wasn't enforced (I was also back in Ireland by the time I was two and it was given at birth, not in school in Ireland, so I missed out on it altogether). It's been the same here in Ireland for quite some time. It's currently on the standard vaccination list, but there hasn't actually been any vaccine in the country for the last 5 years due to a worldwide shortage (and the health service hadn't been falling over themselves to get their hands on some. It's not required to start school or for anything else, so they just haven't bothered...the public health nurse was pretty blasé about it when our daughter was born 5 years ago, said she'd probably get it eventually if they ever got stocks again). Given that TB wasn't massively prevalent and was reasonably under control in many developed nations by the early 70s, many vaccination regimens just left it out if they didn't have any at the time. Places where it has been mandatory have actually checked that people got it, and these are the places that seem to have lower cases and fatalities. I bet if they checked everyones TB antibody titre it would vary a lot since many people got the vaccine ages ago and haven't thought about it since (I work with blood and tissue a lot, so get my HepB titre checked on a regular basis, whenever it drops, they give me a boost of the vaccine). We just don't do that for TB (there was a bit of a resurgence in it when drug resistant TB became more prevalent in the US a while ago, but it's still off the radar in most places in the developed world). 

[Avalon_Fields]

15 hours ago, whitehorses said:

Yeah shopping is clearly the most dangerous thing most of us - except the key workers obvs - will do in a day.

Each time I go shopping I feel more anxious doing so. Full respect to people working in shops all day, unsung heroes for sure. 
 

 

Quote (So, no 'close dancing' then!): Coronavirus has not been spread by shopping or going to the hairdresser, a leading virologist has said after studying a hotspot for the virus.

Prof Hendrik Streeck, leading the response in one of Germany's worst-hit regions, said Covid-19 might not be spread as easily as people believe.

In his research, Prof Streeck said the home of an infected family his team visited "did not have any live virus on any surface" including on phones, door knobs or even the pet cat's fur.

He told German TV "there are no proven infections while shopping or at the hairdresser" and that Germany's "patient zero" only infected her colleagues and not other guests or diners at the hotel where she was staying.

"The virus spreads in other places: the party in Ischgl, the club in Berlin, the football game in Bergamo," he said.

"We know it's not a smear infection that is transmitted by touching objects, but that close dancing and exuberant celebrations have led to infections."

Edited April 10, 2020 by Avalon_Fields

[zahidf]

Non essential aisles???

 

 

[Rumblestripe]

Just now, zahidf said:

Non essential aisles???

Toys, slippers, raincoats? School Uniforms? Paint?

Quite a bit of stuff is only marginally esential at best in these times I guesss

[zahidf]

Just now, Rumblestripe said:

Toys, slippers, raincoats? School Uniforms? Paint?

Quite a bit of stuff is only marginally esential at best in these times I guesss

Nothing in the law as to non essential shopping.

[zahidf]

Wonder if these guys will be arrested 

 

 

[gizmoman]

9 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Non essential aisles???

This is out of order, Priti Patel said yesterday this is not acceptable,

"Priti Patel has said it is “not appropriate” for police officers to check shopping bags during lockdown in an exclusive interview with talkRADIO. Speaking with Dan Wootton on his drive time show, the Home Secretary said implementing the new coronavirus restrictions is “not about heavy handed law enforcement”. Her comments came after Northamptonshire Police chief Nick Adderley said his force could be “days away” from checking that shoppers are only buying essential items in a bid to curb lockdown rule breakers. “That’s not appropriate, let me be clear about that,” the Witham MP said. “I work with the policing leadership every single day of the week and have been since this crisis and even working into this crisis as well. “That is not the guidance, that is not down to the measures that we have been adopting thus far.” In her first interview since the coronavirus crisis took hold, Ms Patel paid tribute to the “majority of the British public” who had been respecting the social distancing guidelines and urged them to continue to do so over the Easter weekend. She also praised the police, telling Dan: "Not everybody's going to get it right". “This is not about heavy handed law enforcement, I think I really must emphasise that. “There is a balance in this and I do pay credit to the police because these are extraordinary times. “They exercise their judgement, policing by consent means that officers, based on guidance, exercise their judgement on the scenarios and the situations and the circumstances that they are in.”