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When will this shit end?

Chrisp1986

By Chrisp1986,
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onthebeach Explorer

onthebeach

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Yes, Iooking again at that article it’s a bit disingenuous as it keeps mentioning acetaminophen used alongside the vaccine.  I’ve now checked this is actually paracetamol which I think is pretty normal to take alongside vaccines? Bit of scare mongering there by mentioning an unknown drug name?

edit again - it appears that’s the common name for paracetamol in USA and that’s where the article is from - don’t think it’s a big deal to take paracetamol alongside in case of high fever - sorry for posting that article - looks full of hyperbole now

Edited by onthebeach
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jparx
jparx

I think on a music festival message board it’s a legitimate question to ask. It doesn’t suggest the OP doesn’t give a shit about anything else. Of course there are much bigger things to be worrie

Toilet Duck
Toilet Duck

So...OX/AZ, blood clots, suspension of vaccinations, politics, vaccine hesitancy, convoluted data, PR problems, Brexit, EU procurement naivety, poor logistics, national identity...there’s an awful lot

Lycra
Lycra

A while since I/we posted because just like everyone else we get fed up of this shit. So just like to say..... For the first time since last March we are free of covid patients 😊

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JoeyT Veteran

JoeyT

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11 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

I read an article saying only 50% of the UK would take a vaccine which has been developed so quickly. No doubt if the Russian one is mass-distributed I reckon the figure would be 10 times smaller than that.

Let's face it the Russians won't be in a rush to distribute to other countries!

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Toilet Duck Rising Star

Toilet Duck

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26 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

i thought that the oxford vaccine produced some similar results in the trials ... and that a slight temperature increase was not unusual and easy enough to treat with paracetamol ..... apologies @Toilet Duck but your  wisdom is  needed 

Howdy! Yes, an elevated temp is pretty standard with many vaccines (and 38 isn't much of a fever to be honest). Making a vaccine is the easy part, making sure it's safe and actually works is the difficult bit. Unless the laws of physics don't apply in Russia and time moves at a different pace, it's simply not possible to make a vaccine that has "passed all the safety checks" in two months. If everyone else decided to skip this part of vaccine development, we'd have hundreds available right now. 

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Simsy Proficient

Simsy

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52 minutes ago, balthazarstarbuck said:

“Putin said that his daughter had a temperature of 38C on the day of the first vaccine injection, and then it dropped to just over 37C on the following day. After the second shot she again had a slight increase in temperature, but then it was all over.“

Not overwhelming me with confidence that endorsement..

This has a whiff of that MP who fed his daughter a burger back in the BSE days. Surely it's safe, a politician wouldn't sacrifice their child just to win points?😧

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Toilet Duck Rising Star

Toilet Duck

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30 minutes ago, onthebeach said:

Yes, calling @toiletDuck please. I was feeling so positive about the Oxford vaccine until I stumbled on this. Not life threatening but probably enough to put most off

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.wired.com/story/covid-19-vaccines-with-minor-side-effects-could-still-be-pretty-bad/amp

Hi, so we had a bit of a chat about that article when it came out and really, it's looking for problems where they don't exist. Acetaminophen is just what they call paracetamol in the US and it's an American article. However, it's mentioned in  a sinister way (that it wasn't included in the original trial design), but it's the run of the mill analgesic that would be used post vaccination in most cases (how many kids get a dose of calpol after theirs?)...The author also suggests that there was something sinister in the control vaccination used, but actually answers their own question a to why this was the case. To be honest, it reads a bit like an anti-vaxxer piece trying hard not to be! (I myself hadn't seen enough data about the Moderna vaccine, but I spoke to a mate in Chicago who is a virologist and works with the people making the RNA vaccines and he's pretty impressed by what he is seeing, so maybe they'll be ok too...I'd still prefer to see some longer followup on side effects for them though). I've been through the Oxford vaccine paper in detail and there isn't anything in it that you wouldn't see with an annual flu shot (and with the booster, side effects were almost non-existent). In truth, the reporting of the Oxford vaccine data was accurate and we'll just have to wait and see how the final testing phase data looks. 

 

Edit: autocorrect fix!

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Crazyfool01 Grand Master

Crazyfool01

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14 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

Howdy! Yes, an elevated temp is pretty standard with many vaccines (and 38 isn't much of a fever to be honest). Making a vaccine is the easy part, making sure it's safe and actually works is the difficult bit. Unless the laws of physics don't apply in Russia and time moves at a different pace, it's simply not possible to make a vaccine that has "passed all the safety checks" in two months. If everyone else decided to skip this part of vaccine development, we'd have hundreds available right now. 

Phew 😅 I’ve been paying attention during your home schooling on this occasion :)  

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onthebeach Explorer

onthebeach

Posted
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1 minute ago, Toilet Duck said:

Hi, so we had a bit of a chat about that article when it came out and really, it's looking for problems where they don't exist. Acetaminophen is just what they call paracetamol in the US and it's an American article. However, it's mentioned in  a sinister way (that it wasn't included in the original trial design), but it's the run of the mill analgesic that would be used post vaccination in most cases (how many kids get a dose of call after theirs?)...The author also suggests that there was something sinister in the control vaccination used, but actually answers their own question a to why this was the case. To be honest, it reads a bit like an anti-vaxxer piece trying hard not to be! (I myself hadn't seen enough data about the Moderna vaccine, but I spoke to a mate in Chicago who who is a virologist and works with the people making the RNA vaccines and he's pretty impressed by what he is seeing, so maybe they'll be ok too...I'd still prefer to see some longer followup on side effects for them though). I've been through the Oxford vaccine paper in detail and there isn't anything in it that you wouldn't see with an annual flu shot (and with the booster, side effects were almost non-existent). In truth, the reporting of the Oxford vaccine data was accurate and we'll just have to wait and see how the final testing phase data looks. 

Ah thank you - just before your post I’d worked out that there was a lot of hyperbole there and amended my post and apologised for posting it - red faced here. I’m still team Sarah Gilbert

CFA1DF73-1D7E-41AA-81A8-79FF95A88043.jpeg

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Toilet Duck Rising Star

Toilet Duck

Posted
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1 minute ago, onthebeach said:

Ah thank you - just before your post I’d worked out that there was a lot of hyperbole there and amended my post and apologised for posting it - red faced here. I’m still team Sarah Gilbert

CFA1DF73-1D7E-41AA-81A8-79FF95A88043.jpeg

No worries! It's a stressful time and a lot of the world are pinning their hopes on a vaccine to end this. But to be fair, it's not the time to start cutting corners on vaccine development. It's too important...not just for this, but for the control of other diseases, so it would be dangerous to rush one out and damage our ability to prevent all sorts of things. People are right to be cautious and we should insist that, despite the pressure, something that will be given to otherwise healthy people is fit and proper for use, no matter how long it takes. So far, everything I've seen from the Oxford team is above board and by the book. Likewise, GSK/Sanofi are taking their time but should have a working, safe vaccine by next summer. Trialling vaccines (and other drugs) is an expensive business, so all of the different teams are engaged in a bit of self-promotion to help raise the funding required to get their vaccines over the line. But underneath the spin, teams like the one at the Jenner are making everything they do publicly available in the conventional scientific literature for other scientists (and anyone else that is interested) to examine and ask questions about. Transparency is the root of all trust in this, and unfortunately, in addition to the unrealistic timeframe of the Russian vaccine, this is mostly lacking for that one (I've searched and I can find a couple of trials registered in Russia, with very few participants (38 in total) of a human adenovirus COVID vaccine from the same institute...maybe that's it, maybe not?...but 38 volunteers is not "passing all safety checks"). Even the GSK/Sanofi vaccine can be scrutinised as they have publicly described what it is (it's just the Sanofi flu shot with the flu bit swapped out for the CoV spike...coupled with a GSK adjuvant to boost the response)...all of which is available publicly in their patents for the products. 

Anyway, I wouldn't apologise for posting anything. It stimulates discussion and after that discussion, you may decide that you still believe what was in any given article, or on reflection, you may change your mind. Being informed is a good thing!

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JoeyT Veteran

JoeyT

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7 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

Anyway, I wouldn't apologise for posting anything. It stimulates discussion and after that discussion, you may decide that you still believe what was in any given article, or on reflection, you may change your mind. Being informed is a good thing!

Never a truer word said.

This (within reason) can be said about so much posted on this forum.

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onthebeach Explorer

onthebeach

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18 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

No worries! It's a stressful time and a lot of the world are pinning their hopes on a vaccine to end this. But to be fair, it's not the time to start cutting corners on vaccine development. It's too important...not just for this, but for the control of other diseases, so it would be dangerous to rush one out and damage our ability to prevent all sorts of things. People are right to be cautious and we should insist that, despite the pressure, something that will be given to otherwise healthy people is fit and proper for use, no matter how long it takes.

Thank you as ever with your reasoned response. As I mentioned earlier today I’m concerned about the Russian vaccine being rushed without the usual protocols. I do hope it’s successful not only for the health of the participants but any bad results will be used by the anti vaccine brigade to discredit any other vaccines currently going through proper trials 😢

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