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When will this shit end?


Chrisp1986

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1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

Not pretending anything, genuinely didn't know. There have been doomongers on here predicting that it'd be cancelled so was wondering if you'd be in with that group. 

I still think the vaccines are the way out, but we've not finished the vaccination programme yet, so there's gains yet to come.

They're also the way out for international travel, but that requires vaccination programmes finished in the places we want to travel to also. That was always going to be the case, it's why I've never been that excited about Monday anyway because I care more about being able to see friends in Europe than going to clubs or gigs. 

Travel will be a shitshow the rest of the year but that's because that's how long a lot of the world will take to finish vaccinating.

Schools will be closed anyway, won't they?

It's difficult for me because you know my views on unlocking and that I do think it's too early but I'm looking at Monday, at the announcement the other day, and you appear to have got everything you wanted. And yet you're still unhappy? I mean it really is the worst of all worlds when the government pick the choice that makes both of us depressed!

I think we're faced with a fair amount of uncertainty...that's the problem. Suddenly the unlocking doesn't feel so irreversible. Anyway, things are improving, and will continue to improve, but it isn't over yet and there may be bumps in the road, that's how I'm looking at it.

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3 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

I entirely agree that more positive reporting of this is required though. 

I hope when I comment inflammatory things you understand I’m only trying to equalise debate where I see things going too hard in one direction.

When America sneezes the world catches a cold. Soon we are going to hit a wall with vaccine uptake and we might regret some approaches we took a few months prior. I think at the moment are numbers are really good. They may get slightly worse. I don’t want people on the fence with the vaccines to get put off by constant negative reporting when things are actually in a pretty good position.

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2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Speak for yourself. Ill be going to gigs and films asap

The divide between the unlockers and lockdowners is getting so wide. Honestly feels a bit like a Brexit debate. It’s like two completely different schools of thought that can’t meet in the middle.

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4 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

The media and the focus can’t talk about anything other than doomsday. I just want to caveat that this is going to seriously backfire unless there is some more balance to the debate. 

Then the answer is to provide that balance with the other side of the argument, not try and shut down the side you don't like - all that does is empower the anti-vaxxers, frankly. "Look, people are saying the vaccine isn't as effective and Matt is trying to shut them up! It must be true!"

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6 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

It’s not that it shouldn’t be questioned it’s the fact that it should be balanced. Right now it’s wall to wall coverage about how the vaccines are failing against the delta variant. No coverage at all of our deaths now being “at average” way lower than influenza deaths.

The media and the focus can’t talk about anything other than doomsday. I just want to caveat that this is going to seriously backfire unless there is some more balance to the debate. 

 

When the delta variant fizzles out and a new variant comes in and vaccine uptake tails off you’re going to be wishing you weren’t being so negative when our numbers at the moment are so good.

where are you seeing this wall to wall coverage of vaccines failing against the delta variant?

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6 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

It will take years and years and maybe in all our lifetimes we will never see what was deemed normal again.

Nothing more irritating than hyperbolic nonsense like this. It's a pandemic, we have had them before and will have them again. It will end.

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4 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Then the answer is to provide that balance with the other side of the argument, not try and shut down the side you don't like - all that does is empower the anti-vaxxers, frankly. "Look, people are saying the vaccine isn't as effective and Matt is trying to shut them up! It must be true!"

Challenging people’s views is not telling people to shut up. If anything I’ve seen more aggression from people who get challenged on the view that everyone wants to continue restrictions.

Edited by Matt42
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19 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

It's difficult for me because you know my views on unlocking and that I do think it's too early but I'm looking at Monday, at the announcement the other day, and you appear to have got everything you wanted. And yet you're still unhappy? I mean it really is the worst of all worlds when the government pick the choice that makes both of us depressed!

I think that is where we are...

No one can be happy with Monday I feel...

I would rather us stay in lockdown with masks and distancing etc if we haven't the confidence to actually unlock.

Monday isnt unlocking - its a fucking joke

Edited by Barry Fish
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5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

where are you seeing this wall to wall coverage of vaccines failing against the delta variant?

I was thinking this...

We can all see the real world data that they are more than holding their own against the delta variant. 

God knows where we'd be if Delta was with us in Jan...!

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Just now, Barry Fish said:

I think that is where we are...

No one can be happy with Monday I feel...

I would rather us stay in lockdown with masks and distancing etc if we haven't the confidence to actually unlock.

Monday is unlocking - its a fucking joke

On the other hand, all the legal restrictions are gone, there are gigs, there are festivals, there's no longer a need for social distancing in pubs... all the things needed are there, it's just a matter of people being willing to actually do or provide them.

Which was what I've been warning about for months - I think Latitude still not having sold out is a big indicator of how high demand will actually be. And I was constantly told that was crap and people are desperate to get out there and everything will be sold out and I'm weird if I choose to stay indoors... there was always more to unlocking that just dropping restrictions, you need public confidence too, and you're right we don't have that.

And without that you can't necessarily get "back to normal" anyway because you need everyone (or 90%+ of people) on board. 

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Talking about consumer confidence, prices have increased dramatically here in London over the past couple of months in terms of going out (I paid £7 for a bog standard lager at a boozer last week, my friend nearly £12 for a glass of wine) and I fear that, even if things are open,these places are going to struggle hugely when people realise how costly it's getting. I'm sure it's not just London that's seeing these increases.

Lockdown will have proved to a lot of people that it's relatively easy to have a great time at home with friends, and I think it might swing back that way once the novelty wears off.

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1 minute ago, jannybruck said:

Talking about consumer confidence, prices have increased dramatically here in London over the past couple of months in terms of going out (I paid £7 for a bog standard lager at a boozer last week, my friend nearly £12 for a glass of wine) and I fear that, even if things are open,these places are going to struggle hugely when people realise how costly it's getting. I'm sure it's not just London that's seeing these increases.

Lockdown will have proved to a lot of people that it's relatively easy to have a great time at home with friends, and I think it might swing back that way once the novelty wears off.

One would hope when they can run at full capacity again the prices will come back down although that rarely works in practice!

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1 hour ago, efcfanwirral said:

Haha I can do both of those things- live in the real world and still look forward to doing one thing. To me it's not negativity, it's just reality

I don’t think you’ve been overly negative, I don’t necessarily agree with some of your stances but generally speaking you’re quite level headed with your comments and put them across in a respectful way. 

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29 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Nothing more irritating than hyperbolic nonsense like this. It's a pandemic, we have had them before and will have them again. It will end.

You must be very old to have lived through a pandemic then as the last global one was a hundred years ago.

and as for the rest of your comment - grow up, stop thinking about nobody but you and realise there is a huge world and not just the small isolated part you exist in.

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19 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Which was what I've been warning about for months - I think Latitude still not having sold out is a big indicator of how high demand will actually be. And I was constantly told that was crap and people are desperate to get out there and everything will be sold out and I'm weird if I choose to stay indoors... there was always more to unlocking that just dropping restrictions, you need public confidence too, and you're right we don't have that.

Latitude is an interesting one - as I'm finding out its a hell of a journey for most people. Most years I look at it and think nah way too far, but with it being a test event and others I had tickets for cancelling I'm happy to make the effort. The lineup is good for me but only because I've spent a year listening to smaller artists who all happen to be on, plus supergrass, Stephen Fretwell and wolf Alice would've been on my must sees for this year anyway. But the lineup isn't what I'd call good genrally- and I wouldn't consider it in normal years. But then I post on efestivals so am not the general public- its about being at a festival for me with the bonus of some stuff I wanted to see anyway.

I'm on the fence about live music demand - I'd be interested to see what happens if they announced a festival with a really popular lineup in a month's time.

Obviously not exactly a crowd that you'd expect to be particularly cautious but Courteeners shifted 70,000 tickets for September before freedom day was confirmed, so the demand seems to be there. The lineups aren't though 

Edited by efcfanwirral
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17 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

I cannot be bothered but if I could I can easily find 10 headlines every day proclaiming how great vaccines are - if you look only for negative you will find only negative. IF you look only for positive you will find only positive.

Personally I read both and not just the big bold headline which is normally utter rubbish.

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There was definitely a sweet spot a few months ago where stuff was selling out constantly and people's confidence was high. For whatever reason – probably to do with all the uncertainty around events, but possibly people's financial circumstances and vaccine status as well – it seems to have dropped off considerably.

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3 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Latitude is an interesting one - as I'm finding out its a hell of a journey for most people. Most years I look at it and think nah way too far, but with it being a test event and others I had tickets for cancelling I'm happy to make the effort. The lineup is good for me but only because I've spent a year listening to smaller artists who all happen to be on, plus supergrass, Stephen Fretwell and wolf Alice would've been on my must sees for this year anyway. But the lineup isn't what I'd call good genrally- and I wouldn't consider it in normal years. But then I post on efestivals so am not the general public- its about being at a festival for me with the bonus of some stuff I wanted to see anyway.

I'm on the fence about live music demand - I'd be interested to see what happens if they announced a festival with a really popular lineup in a month's time.

Obviously not exactly a crowd that you'd expect to be particularly cautious but Courteeners shifted 70,000 tickets for September before freedom day was confirmed, so the demand seems to be there. The lineups aren't though 

Equinox will be a bit of a ticket test in sept … 

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Weird how this Covid plays on your mind.

I will be quite happy to go to a gig again.

I have put off rejoining the gym until this "wave" blows over. I know any excuse ha ha.

Nevermind "Freedom" day on July 19th I think they should rename it "Division" day. All kinds of shit ahead. 

As it goes I will do what I want but have no problem with people doing what they want RE rule changes.

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5 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

You must be very old to have lived through a pandemic then as the last global one was a hundred years ago.

and as for the rest of your comment - grow up, stop thinking about nobody but you and realise there is a huge world and not just the small isolated part you exist in.

Didn’t say I’d lived through it you diddy. 
 

No idea what you mean by the second part but you’re extremely condescending. Obviously it’ll be slower route to Normal for poor countries but it’ll come too 

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44 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Challenging people’s views is not telling people to shut up. If anything I’ve seen more aggression from people who get challenged on the view that everyone wants to continue restrictions.

You might think your “challenging people’s views” on this forum by standing on a wall pointing at (in your mind only) potential anti-vax comments.

What’s actually “challenging people’s views” is asking questions - even stupid ones - and having a factual science-led debate about it.

Edit: btw I agree with your wider point at the unbalanced media portrayal of perceived negatives with the vaccines. A little wound up a question on a forum would get bundled into that, but no beef. 👌

Edited by Radiochicken
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41 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

It will take years and years and maybe in all our lifetimes we will never see what was deemed normal again.

If you honestly believe that, then why are you here?

I'm serious on this. If that statement turns out to be even halfway true, then Glastonbury Festival in a recognisable form will never happen again, so being on this forum is just torturing yourself.

If there's an ongoing risk of restrictions being kept or reimposed, then the absolute first thing to go will be a festival with a near 2-month build time and a staff of over 20 FTE year round that requires signifiant money to be committed 3 or even 6 months ahead of the event. Something of that scale can no longer be workable - we'll be left with much simpler events that can be set up with less than 2 months notice and 3 weeks build (ie the type that have survived this year). More complex events, specifically Glastonbury and Boomtown, simply become too much risk.

Commercial insurance won't touch it, and Michael and Emily won't (or at least, shouldn't) literally risk the farm on a yearly basis.

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