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When will this shit end?


Chrisp1986

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Noticing a few cancellations coming in for next week. Not massive numbers but enough that it's noticeable. Would guess the lack of clarity isn't helping and some people not feeling as confident to come away as they were. With the weather forecast looking so good it's unusual to see the number of cancellations otherwise

Edited by philipsteak
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42 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

and in Holland where they scrapped them cases went up by over 500%

So masks slow the increase and are therefore  a good thing.

They haven't got the vaccine levels we have.  You are not comparing like for like.

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20 minutes ago, philipsteak said:

Noticing a few cancellations coming in for next week. Not massive numbers but enough that it's noticeable. Would guess the lack of clarity isn't helping and some people not feeling as confident to come away as they were. With the weather forecast looking so good it's unusual to see the number of cancellations otherwise

Cancellations for? 

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17 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

"Freedom Day" is starting to look very much like the last 15 months - fucking shite

What exactly are you moaning about?

We are moving ahead with most if not all restrictions lifted, still with huge case numbers. Which specific elements of 'freedom day' aren't up to you loft standards? 

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30 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

They haven't got the vaccine levels we have.  You are not comparing like for like.

Not a massive difference in my opinion based on the figures below.  You may disagree.  

Partly vaccinated: Netherlands = 26%, UK = 16%

Fully vaccinated: Netherlands = 39%, UK = 51%

Total: Netherlands = 65%, UK = 67%

Source: https://ourworldindata.org/

Edited by slumberjack
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3 minutes ago, Radiochicken said:

100 crew on a Navy ship infected despite being double jabs. Wonder if this is a kinda natural experiment that backs up @Toilet Duck’s point we may be overestimating the vaccines effect on stopping transmission? 

Being in an enclosed spaces like a Navy ship for months is probably going to get you infected, no matter what the infection reductions by vaccines

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5 minutes ago, Radiochicken said:

100 crew on a Navy ship infected despite being double jabs. Wonder if this is a kinda natural experiment that backs up @Toilet Duck’s point we may be overestimating the vaccines effect on stopping transmission? 

Vaccine denialism is the new vogue 

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16 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

What exactly are you moaning about?

We are moving ahead with most if not all restrictions lifted, still with huge case numbers. Which specific elements of 'freedom day' aren't up to you loft standards? 

‘mUh FrEeDoMs!!!’

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11 minutes ago, slumberjack said:

Not a massive difference in my opinion based on the figures below.  You may disagree.  

Partly vaccinated: Netherlands = 26%, UK = 16%

Fully vaccinated: Netherlands = 39%, UK = 51%

Total: Netherlands = 65%, UK = 67%

Source: https://ourworldindata.org/

That is a pretty misleading way of looking at things. You can't really add them up and compare totals it doesn't make sense. Especially with Delta and the fact 2 doses is even more important. 39v51 is the main thing to look at. A sizeable difference.

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2 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

That is a pretty misleading way of looking at things. You can't really add them up and compare totals it doesn't make sense. Especially with Delta and the fact 2 doses is even more important. 39v51 is the main thing to look at. A sizeable difference.

It makes little difference, we still have 50% of the population not jully jabbed.

Expecting a totally different outcome to what happened in the Nethelands (due to a 10% difference) is naive. Our cases will be through the roof next week after the clubs open and thats clear as day. 

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3 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Vaccine denialism is the new vogue 

I have recent and current first hand experience of how the vaccines seem to be working...to an extent. It's definitely not preventing catching it but it definitely softens the blow if and when you do. There's an air of inevitability that at some point we'll all catch it and those who have been vaccinated stand a better chance of lessening the impact. So I don't deny that they work but I would dispel any myths that they protect you from catching the virus. But has this been the message all along? I genuinely can't remember!

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3 minutes ago, Supernintendo Chalmers said:

I have recent and current first hand experience of how the vaccines seem to be working...to an extent. It's definitely not preventing catching it but it definitely softens the blow if and when you do. There's an air of inevitability that at some point we'll all catch it and those who have been vaccinated stand a better chance of lessening the impact. So I don't deny that they work but I would dispel any myths that they protect you from catching the virus. But has this been the message all along? I genuinely can't remember!

I feel like when the vaccines first started circulating they were heralded as the nail in the coffin and did in fact break transmission and your chances of catching it.

Doesn't look to be the case now.

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15 minutes ago, Radiochicken said:

100 crew on a Navy ship infected despite being double jabs. Wonder if this is a kinda natural experiment that backs up @Toilet Duck’s point we may be overestimating the vaccines effect on stopping transmission? 

Using a bit of an outlier there. 100 crew tightly packed on a ship living with each other does not equate to normal everyday civy life. And reduction in transmission is exacerbated in real life because we don't spend that much time up close and personal with a lot of people. This is why most transmission is at home. 

The vaccine does not prevent you from getting the virus, as toilet duck has said. Give the virus enough of a chance though and it will still infect you. The benefit comes in how it helps your body get rid of it. 

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10 hours ago, crazyfool1 said:

Maybe because as you have said lots of people aren’t wearing them … so yeah that would make them pretty ineffective … or people not wearing them correctly ? Perhaps the govt should have given clear advice 

That's the key issue, really. 'Masks don't work because they're inherently ineffective' is simply not correct, but 'masks don't work because not enough people wear them or wear them properly' certainly is.

So the government can either give up because what's the point if half the country don't follow their advice, or mandate masks in a workable manner (e.g. enclosed space where it's bound to be crowded, like public transport and supermarkets). Only one of those options represents responsible governance.

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8 minutes ago, Supernintendo Chalmers said:

I have recent and current first hand experience of how the vaccines seem to be working...to an extent. It's definitely not preventing catching it but it definitely softens the blow if and when you do. There's an air of inevitability that at some point we'll all catch it and those who have been vaccinated stand a better chance of lessening the impact. So I don't deny that they work but I would dispel any myths that they protect you from catching the virus. But has this been the message all along? I genuinely can't remember!

 

4 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

I feel like when the vaccines first started circulating they were heralded as the nail in the coffin and did in fact break transmission and your chances of catching it.

Doesn't look to be the case now.

I could be wrong but my expectation was that transmission would be reduced more than it seems to be in the real world. Which is a shame. On a personal level it makes me a bit worried about a couple of immunocompromised people in my life, one of whom is in and out of hospital all the time currently. The next few months are going to be a bit anxiety inducing for me for that reason. But I do understand you can't stop society forever, it's just going to be a bit of an uncertain and worrying time.

I'm pleased Sadik has taken action on the transport issue. Seems such a no brainer to me. I expect less compliance still, though.

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Ideologically I don’t have much of an issue with face covering mandates (I do have an issue with mask mandates, but we’ve never had those in the UK)

 

I do just think that large parts of society really overrate their importance though. Sebastian Payne seems to genuinely think mask wearing is the difference between a fourth lockdown or not, that’s just pie in the sky nonsense given the current case trajectory. 

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13 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

That is a pretty misleading way of looking at things. You can't really add them up and compare totals it doesn't make sense. Especially with Delta and the fact 2 doses is even more important. 39v51 is the main thing to look at. A sizeable difference.

That's why I said they may disagree, it's subjective.  Not for a moment suggesting you're wrong, jus that in my opinion, 12% isn't a massive difference.  

I only shared these as someone commented that UK v NL wasn't a like for like comparison.  I agree that this is a fair comment but thought it would be good to look at the figures for context.  

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11 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

That is a pretty misleading way of looking at things. You can't really add them up and compare totals it doesn't make sense. Especially with Delta and the fact 2 doses is even more important. 39v51 is the main thing to look at. A sizeable difference.

That cases are rising now in whole Europe is clear as mud. But would be interesting to see the age groups vaccinated in comparison. Also interesting will be if the vaccination shields will hold against delta, even with not that high level of vaccination. Austria has 42, so also not that far away from that all and cases on the rise (from around 100 last week to over 300 today, still low levels but you can see the trend). But the approach toward the coming delta wave is quite similar to the UK which are already in the wave, say "if not open up now, then you will never to open up anyway" and "the virus will be with us for the next couple of years, so we have to open up now" even with experts and scientists warning about the consequences.

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19 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Vaccine denialism is the new vogue 

Jaysus Matt you do come out with some corkers! 😁 understanding how vaccines work is not denialism (assuming they are a force field is incorrect though). My point all along is that they have good effectiveness at stopping infections when we have other measures in place that also reduce our chances of getting infected. Cram us all into gigs or clubs again and the odds of picking it up increase, even when double jabbed. The key thing here is that (as per the navy boat in question), infections that otherwise might have had serious consequences, instead lead to mild or asymptomatic cases (they won’t always, some people will still get sick, end up in hospital and even die, but not in numbers anywhere close to what would happen if unvaccinated). Far from denialism, the vaccines work incredibly well and I still think that they end this, just with greater coverage than we currently have.

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1 minute ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Is there much delta in the Netherlands? Is that partly causing the spike?

I`m sure there is. Here it makes 70-80 percent of all cases now and this with not so much sequencing.

We already have clusters of dutch tourists with delta brought into the country.

Also I assume that the delta in Europe has been faster than expected, so many experts say it here.

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