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When will this shit end?


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3 minutes ago, zahidf said:

No one is disputing that china lied and is covering stuff up.

 

But all governments in the world are doing the same. And i dont think china did it on purpose, its just part of their govt set up.

People are though. Go back through these forums and people are spurring utter bullshit that China got over the virus because the introduced stricter measures. They are not over this virus, and neither did they contain it faster. They lied about the extent that the virus spread throughout the country and how many people have died.

I don’t want this confused though. My concern is for the innocent Chinese people living under a lying evil government. 
 

Western governments are not doing anything near as bad as that. How can that link be made at all? Trump is a fool but he’s not hiding thousands and thousands of deaths and potentially millions of confirmed cases.

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1 minute ago, Matt42 said:

People are though. Go back through these forums and people are spurring utter bullshit that China got over the virus because the introduced stricter measures. They are not over this virus, and neither did they contain it faster. They lied about the extent that the virus spread throughout the country and how many people have died.

I don’t want this confused though. My concern is for the innocent Chinese people living under a lying evil government. 
 

Western governments are not doing anything near as bad as that. How can that link be made at all? Trump is a fool but he’s not hiding thousands and thousands of deaths and potentially millions of confirmed cases.

Hmmm trump was downplaying it for months and is even now playing games as to what states get federal help.

A lot of the US anti Chinese stuff is very much them shifting the blame.

Lot of blame to go around and china certainly deserves a lot

 

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Just now, zahidf said:

Hmmm trump was downplaying it for months and is even now playing games as to what states get federal help.

A lot of the US anti Chinese stuff is very much them shifting the blame.

Lot of blame to go around and china certainly deserves a lot

 

Every western politician was downplaying it. Downplaying isn’t the same as trying to conceal something from the rest of the world and silencing doctors trying to whistleblow what was going on. Li Wenliang was silenced for trying to alert the world about this virus and the Chinese government silenced him for “spreading rumours”. The CCP care more about the PR of their government than anything and people are afraid of them.

The west being slow to respond and China manipulating figures and facts are not the same and independent issues. 

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5 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Every western politician was downplaying it. Downplaying isn’t the same as trying to conceal something from the rest of the world and silencing doctors trying to whistleblow what was going on. Li Wenliang was silenced for trying to alert the world about this virus and the Chinese government silenced him for “spreading rumours”. The CCP care more about the PR of their government than anything and people are afraid of them.

The west being slow to respond and China manipulating figures and facts are not the same and independent issues. 

Trump was doing more than downplay it. He took the pandemic warnings so seriously that he held a huge rally on March 2, where he said Democrats raising concerns about it were engaged in a hoax to hurt his numbers. Do you think this would have changed ?

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8 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Every western politician was downplaying it. Downplaying isn’t the same as trying to conceal something from the rest of the world and silencing doctors trying to whistleblow what was going on. Li Wenliang was silenced for trying to alert the world about this virus and the Chinese government silenced him for “spreading rumours”. The CCP care more about the PR of their government than anything and people are afraid of them.

The west being slow to respond and China manipulating figures and facts are not the same and independent issues. 

This can be looked at as a positive for the U.K. We know they tried to cover it up and silence doctors etc, that isn’t news. But how long would it potentially have been spreading there before they worked out what it was or started to try and get on top of it? At least we knew what was coming and what to be looking out for.

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35 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

I don’t know if he meant treatments rather than vaccines, there are a number of different potential treatments like anti malaria drugs, and existing treatments for flu that people are experimenting with that might help to mitigate symptoms within people until the vaccine.

With regards to the vaccine as soon as China shared the genetic code where was a vaccine within a couple of hours, but getting it certified as safe for humans and then getting it to a point it can me manufactured and distributed in the hundreds of millions is the bit that takes the time. I’ve not doubt that if the time frame can be shortened it will be. I think the biggest problem will be much the same as we’re having with the tests right now, look at how long that has taken to get them in any decent number. The whole world needs them.

Yep, the annual flu vaccine is only a variation on the previous year's, yet it still takes about 6 months to ramp up production from when the most prevalent strains that year are identified and get it distributed. Even then, it's targeted to high risk groups and not the entire population of the planet. I'd expect, if and when a vaccine is available, that it will be phased delivery. Healthcare workers and high risk groups first, then onto the general population (with, unfortunately, those countries that can afford it at the front of the queue). 

One of the main difficulties is that a lot of the early vaccine candidates are DNA/RNA vaccines (using the bit of the genetic code that makes the spike...the plan being that our cells would make loads of the spike but not the rest of the virus and our bodies would then make antibodies to the spike...it's an elegant solution and these types of vaccines have been under intense development for lots of things). The problem is that there are currently none of this type of vaccine approved for human use (there's a horse one). So, not only do those developing the vaccine have to show that it works and that it is safe, but they also have to get a whole new type of vaccine approved....and with the entire world waiting on it! It may able be that a more traditional vaccine beats it to the clinic (there's more and more molecular information about this virus coming on stream all the time, so lots to work with). 

As for the drugs, there are some large scale screens of approved agents underway that might be promising, proper trials of those with anecdotal evidence to support them (like Chloroquine) may also provide options, but the SARS/MERS therapeutics that were in development all focussed on blocking the interaction with ACE2 (the receptor the virus uses to get into our cells). These were deemed safe in phase 1 trials way back when (where you only really look for toxicity, how well they work is not the main aim), so seeing how effective any of these might be also offers some hope. 

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1 hour ago, Matt42 said:

Trump is a fool but he’s not hiding thousands and thousands of deaths and potentially millions of confirmed cases.

so China is hiding these hundreds of thousands of cases, and no people in China are talking about how their friends and family are ill and dying...?

I don't doubt that China have told some porkies, but there's nothing to suggest the problems are the size you seem to be suggesting.

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1 minute ago, Neil said:

so China is hiding these hundreds of thousands of cases, and no people in China are talking about how their friends and family are ill and dying...?

I don't doubt that China have told some porkies, but there's nothing to suggest the problems are the size you seem to be suggesting.

Yeah, I think we should be very cautious about blaming any particular country at this point. Seems like when the realisation hit home in UK and US that they are well and truly fucked the blame quickly shifted to China. Nice distraction. Everyone is doing it....but it's one for the history books.

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7 minutes ago, Neil said:

so China is hiding these hundreds of thousands of cases, and no people in China are talking about how their friends and family are ill and dying...?

I don't doubt that China have told some porkies, but there's nothing to suggest the problems are the size you seem to be suggesting.

With what social media can the Chinese people say this?

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19 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Something positive, although of course they may be lying...

   Italy records lowest daily increase in deaths in a week.

Italy can be believed because they’ve not been shy about broadcasting how awful it has been for their country. I’m more suspicious about the countries that seem to be telling us that everything is fine. Funnily enough they tend to be the countries with the most shoddy governments. 

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5 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Italy can be believed because they’ve not been shy about broadcasting how awful it has been for their country. I’m more suspicious about the countries that seem to be telling us that everything is fine. Funnily enough they tend to be the countries with the most shoddy governments. 

Like Germany?

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5 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

With what social media can the Chinese people say this?

the 'western' media are quick enough to report criticisms that the Chinese people do make, and when they make those criticisms in all sorts of weird and wonderful ways, and when those criticisms get deleted.

There's shit loads of reports of this sort of thing.
https://www.google.com/search?q=chinese+criticisms+deleted

But nothing to really suggest the problems are (currently) hugely greater or hugely more widespread than the 'official' version.

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1 hour ago, Matt42 said:

Italy can be believed because they’ve not been shy about broadcasting how awful it has been for their country. I’m more suspicious about the countries that seem to be telling us that everything is fine. Funnily enough they tend to be the countries with the most shoddy governments. 

Although you can’t obviously brand the whole country the same but didn’t the ski resort where the virus initially broke out in Italy cover it up for the first few weeks because they didn’t want people to cancel going there? 

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1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

Like Germany?

Germany are around 4 or 5 days behind us. We look like on same path as Italy , possibly more spread out geographically. USA looks a shitfest and they still haven’t locked down. 
 

Only at the end can this all be assessed as to who done “best” , who was most truthful and a plan for next time firmed up. I’m just keeping my head down and following the advice. 

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5 minutes ago, Sack truck said:

Germany are around 4 or 5 days behind us. We look like on same path as Italy , possibly more spread out geographically. USA looks a shitfest and they still haven’t locked down. 
 

Only at the end can this all be assessed as to who done “best” , who was most truthful and a plan for next time firmed up. I’m just keeping my head down and following the advice. 

I think a lot of US has locked down now...especially in areas most affected like New York, Washington, California.
The difference with Germany is they are reporting a much larger number of cases, but have a much lower death rate...and the reason could be that they are testing more meaning they are showing a truer scale of infection rate, or they are testing more and able to control the spread. Like you say, we will one day find out...it's like a massive global experiment.

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40 minutes ago, Lycra said:

Going take a break from here peeps. From what I already know it's been a terrible day on Mrs Lycra's unit and I will  need to put my arms around her tonight 😢

Love to you and your wife 

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