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When will this shit end?


Chrisp1986

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1 minute ago, discgoesmic said:

Absolutely, I guess as others have undoubtedly said they can't start building the festival (amongst countless other things) with no guarantee that the lockdown will even end July 19. I'm just keeping an eye on Twitter accounts but I suspect most will be cancelled.

It's looking that way unfortunately, you'd expect to see festivals like Tramlines. Y Not, Truck etc to confirm they're off in the next couple of weeks. Surely there's hope for the Festivals Republic ones if they're working with the Government on the pilots. Even still, that only gives R&L and Creamfields at August Bank Holiday five weeks after 19 July. They could do events tomorrow with mass testing if they wanted to that's the annoying thing

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26 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

So what are you going to do, exactly? Are you actually going to participate in full-on civil disobedience? Or are you just assuming other people will do that bit and you're just going to go Tesco without a mask?

I see a lot of talk like this but very little that actually looks like it'll become action.

Most people when they say “civil disobedience” they just mean meeting up in houses in bigger groups. Hugging would be included in that but that’s allowed now anyway. Low level rule breaking is far more significant than big riots in terms of impact on R. 

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Just now, Fuzzy Afro said:

Most people when they say “civil disobedience” they just mean meeting up in houses in bigger groups. Hugging would be included in that but that’s allowed now anyway. Low level rule breaking is far more significant than big riots in terms of impact on R. 

and lets be honest its partly why the R rate is going up - its not just the new varriant.

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4 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

 

I think as a nation we need to work out where our line is between preventable and non preventable deaths, and somehow decide what is acceptable and what isn't 

The logical next steps from trying to prevent every covid death is trying to prevent every flu death. We know we can, so why don't we? Why does a covid death mean more just because its novel? They're families who lose someone too. 

Masks can eliminate the flu we're told but is that really going to be the case with indoor venues open, maybe even without social distancing, then people going to see their elderly relatives, meeting up at Christmas etc? We could restrict our way to not killing those tens of thousands of people every year, and take away the NHS's biggest winter problem. Should we? Why not, just because it was acceptable before?

Not saying I have strong feelings either way - just putting it all out there as a discussion point. 

I don't disagree with this at all. A grown up conversation about the trade-offs implicit in public health interventions would be great.

The only problem is you'd need to completely replace our political system and media - oh, and probably the public too - to allow that to happen. ☹️

Honestly, I just don't think there's anywhere near enough widespread understanding of risk, probability and science to have that conversation. It worries me more than almost anything else as it massively affects our ability to solve all the big problems we face - climate change, economic inequality, drug policy... I don't know how it will ever get better.

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2 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

When did you have a spike in cases in your area to translate to this situation now?

Sorry I haven't been following local rates since it bottomed out and very few covids were presenting in hospital. Came as a complete surprise when Mrs L told me she had been asked to prepare to accept covids when turning up for duty yesterday. The number of patients grew steadily through the day and overnight. 

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5 minutes ago, andyrhodes24 said:

It's looking that way unfortunately, you'd expect to see festivals like Tramlines. Y Not, Truck etc to confirm they're off in the next couple of weeks. Surely there's hope for the Festivals Republic ones if they're working with the Government on the pilots. Even still, that only gives R&L and Creamfields at August Bank Holiday five weeks after 19 July. They could do events tomorrow with mass testing if they wanted to that's the annoying thing

Couldn't agree more. R&L and those others further away in August are do-able in my view and probably have the financial backing if anything else goes wrong. I don't understand the point of those pilot concerts if they're going to restrict capacity or prevent festivals anyway.

Edited by discgoesmic
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The govt cant legislate against preventing death. lockdowns and restrictions has a price, and you have measure the impact as against restrictions against the deaths caused by covid. 

 

Masks on public transport is a small measure which wouldn't effect people and potentially have a good public health impact

Social distancing indoors has a mich bigger impact on the economy and so the public health benefit doesn't balance that out. 

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2 minutes ago, Lycra said:

Sorry I haven't been following local rates since it bottomed out and very few covids were presenting in hospital. Came as a complete surprise when Mrs L told me she had been asked to prepare to accept covids when turning up for duty yesterday. The number of patients grew steadily through the day and overnight. 

Are they staying in the hospital longer?

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1 minute ago, zahidf said:

The govt cant legislate against preventing death. lockdowns and restrictions has a price, and you have measure the impact as against restrictions against the deaths caused by covid. 

 

Masks on public transport is a small measure which wouldn't effect people and potentially have a good public health impact

Social distancing indoors has a mich bigger impact on the economy and so the public health benefit doesn't balance that out. 

You are talking to a audience who has totally lost the plot I feel.

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2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Are they staying in the hospital longer?

Also - from the people I know in the NHS they are the patients who they sent back home in the first wave as they could manage at home.  They are being admitted now only because there is capacity.  e.g. a little help from oxygen just to speed up the recover and just in case etc...  The NHS IS back to doing observations as they should be doing.

This isn't like the last wave.

Edited by Barry Fish
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4 minutes ago, discgoesmic said:

Couldn't agree more. R&L and those others further away in August are do-able in my view and probably have the financial backing if anything else goes wrong. I don't understand the point of those pilot concerts if they're going to restrict capacity or prevent festivals anyway.

Exactly, if the pilots are successful there's literally no reason not to let festivals/outdoor gigs happen, you know Boris still won't allow it even if the pilots show minimal cases. The Daily Telegraph front page says that this extension is "up to" four weeks so who knows!

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6 minutes ago, Lycra said:

Sorry I haven't been following local rates since it bottomed out and very few covids were presenting in hospital. Came as a complete surprise when Mrs L told me she had been asked to prepare to accept covids when turning up for duty yesterday. The number of patients grew steadily through the day and overnight. 

Could it be perhaps be people coming from other local areas? It's weird that the bosses would know there would be an influx like that over a couple of days from the general public because there's no way to predict that, but makes sense if for whatever reason they're diverting people from elsewhere? 

5 minutes ago, discgoesmic said:

Couldn't agree more. R&L and those others further away in August are do-able in my view and probably have the financial backing if anything else goes wrong. I don't understand the point of those pilot concerts if they're going to restrict capacity or prevent festivals anyway.

2022 - I expect we'd be having the same conversations this time next year if we don't do pilots now. Means festivals can roll over/announce lineups with some certainty that they could go ahead. Essentially so they can carry on as a business 

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6 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

You are talking to a audience who has totally lost the plot I feel.

More of a discussion point on the flu stuff - it's interesting to see what people think of it, and on the flip side puts the covid stuff into perspective too as we're talking about much smaller numbers now than flu each year. I'll be interested to see the justifications later 

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24 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

So you think everyone has been impacted equally ? 

Its pretty clear to everyone with half a brain cell it has not.

Posters on here where literally saying how good its been being on furlough and having a six month holiday.  

I'm struggling with you on this one mate. You're telling me that it hasn't impacted people equally, but then if I say that the people who have lost those close to them would say that they'd had it worse than you or your kids who have missed life events, then I'm belittling your/their suffering?

I don't think anyone's not suffered at all through this.

Edited by DeanoL
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13 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Also - from the people I know in the NHS they are the patients who they sent back home in the first wave as they could manage at home.  They are being admitted now only because there is capacity.  e.g. a little help from oxygen just to speed up the recover and just in case etc...  The NHS IS back to doing observations as they should be doing.

This isn't like the last wave.

There were 25,000 excess deaths at home in the first wave. Not all those people that were sent back home (or not picked up in the first place) could manage.

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3 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

 

Could it be perhaps be people coming from other local areas? It's weird that the bosses would know there would be an influx like that over a couple of days from the general public because there's no way to predict that, but makes sense if for whatever reason they're diverting people from elsewhere? 

Undoubtedly the decision to open up/convert Mrs L's unit to covids will be based on need and there may be a degree of centralistion but as units become full new covid patients have to spread to elsewhere. And so do non-covid patients. It's a domino effect.

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1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

There were 25,000 excess deaths at home in the first wave. Not all those people that were sent back home (or not picked up in the first place) could manage.

Thanks for more state the obvious...

Again this isn't March 2020...

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So I tweeted Rob Da Bank just now and he responded saying that we'll wait to see what Boris says. Is this being generally optimistic, or do we know if there's some sort of announcement expected regarding higher than 50% capacity at events (or perhaps events green lit if there's testing)?

600852943_Screenshot2021-06-14at12_32_10.thumb.png.40a2b855db4444322de1335f86ef9f2b.pngI'm not expecting this but it would be much welcomed by fans and organisers alike.

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Just now, Lycra said:

Undoubtedly the decision to open up/convert Mrs L's unit to covids will be based on need and there may be a degree of centralistion but as units become full new covid patients have to spread to elsewhere. And so do non-covid patients. It's a domino effect.

It probably all comes down to funding and the lack of it over the past decade or so, but from an outsider perspective it really does sound like these nightingales would be great about now to avoid this. I assume not enough staff for them but you'd imagine someone who just needs oxygen could be treated there and moved over to a proper hospital if it gets worse

The current situation doesn't sound remotely sustainable, even at the current levels of restrictions. 

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8 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

I'm struggling with you on this one mate. You're telling me that it hasn't impacted people equally, but then if I say that the people who have lost those close to them would say that they'd had it worse than you or your kids who have missed life events, then I'm belittling your/their suffering?

I don't think anyone's not suffered at all through this.

You originally said I was stating I had it worse than everyone else which was a lie you haven't backed up.

There is no doubt almost everyone has suffered in some way but its also true that some people have mostly had a six month holiday on furlough.  This is true because a number of posters on here said that very thing.  So there was nothing wrong in what I said.

You tried to make out I was saying no on had it worse - it was a lie and a bit of c**ts trick.

Edited by Barry Fish
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Just now, Barry Fish said:

You originally said I was stating I had it worse than everyone else which was a lie you haven't backed up.

There is no doubt almost everyone has suffered in some way but its also true that some people have mostly had a six month holiday on furlough.  This is true because a number of posters on here said that very thing.  So there was nothing wrong in what I said.

I wasn't put on furlogh personally, I've been working throughout but I can imagine it's not purely a 'holiday' as you say.

Some people had no idea if they were coming back to a job - something that cannot be underestimated.

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Just now, MrBarry465 said:

I wasn't put on furlogh personally, I've been working throughout but I can imagine it's not purely a 'holiday' as you say.

Some people had no idea if they were coming back to a job - something that cannot be underestimated.

Would not disagree...  but its not as I say, its as they said...

There was two poster on here saying how much of a good time they was having on thier furlough holiday.

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Please can we stop with the personal comments, so far today we’ve had people being called liars on numerous occasions along with ‘half a brain cell’ and others. This thread would be so much nicer if we didn’t have those type of comments. 

Edited by Ozanne
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