zahidf Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Ozanne said: That’s more of an issue with Johnson over promising on things and not delivering, take a look at his stint as London mayor for example. A better leader wouldn’t make those promises. I agree it’s frustrating and annoying though. But your guy Sadiq Khan wants to fully reopen in June. So it's clear where he sees public opinion going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyfool1 Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 1 minute ago, zahidf said: Some of the nerds definitely want one. Fake SAGE and Susan milne. There was that doctors body which wanted social distancing for the foreseeable future It's clear what some of the health guys are trying to push We aren’t getting 1 … it’s not happening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycra Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 1 hour ago, efcfanwirral said: That's what I thought. Reason I was asking is it ties into a conversation earlier - if the NHS can't cope really with any covid patients, surely elimination is the only way we can avoid winter lockdowns permanently, and what Chris whitty said about living with it and acceptable deaths (inferring there will be hospitalisations too) is impossible? Yet elimination is impossible too. So we're a bit stuck.... The NHS can cope with Covid patients provided they are low in number. This makes it possible to clinically manage them in isolation units but obviously these have a finite capacity. When this is exceeded covid patients have to be accommodated elsewhere, usually on acute respiratory units. Today Mrs L's respiratory unit has lost 25% of its capacity so it can accept covid patients, one sole covid patient at present. Those patients moved to accommodate that covid patient have had to go to other wards, thus affecting their normal patient in-take ability. Similarly a profusion of very sick covid patients clogs up CCU and HDU, thus curtailing their ability to accept other patients, in particular those who would require post-operative care on these units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozanne Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, zahidf said: But your guy Sadiq Khan wants to fully reopen in June. So it's clear where he sees public opinion going Lol - my guy. I happen to disagree with Khan here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copperface Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, zahidf said: Some of the nerds definitely want one. Fake SAGE and Susan milne. There was that doctors body which wanted social distancing for the foreseeable future It's clear what some of the health guys are trying to push Health? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB15 Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 I think the point about a clear metric/metrics we need to achieve to full unlocking is correct. To me, on instinct alone, it doesn’t feel like we are a million miles away, but maybe a few weeks of patience to make sure we don’t keep growing and growing with hospitalisation. Waiting for all adults to be double vaccinated is, in my view, a silly target as the younger agents *could* get long covid or die from covid, but it’s very unlikely. Probably more chance of road traffic accidents or suicides in that age group than a covid death? Trust the vaccines we have to get us out of it. If we can’t have much covid bounce to cause the NHS to crumble, then we finally need to have the correct conversation about luck of public service funding and an increase in taxes - it in itself is an investment in our economy and people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB15 Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, Lycra said: The NHS can cope with Covid patients provided they are low in number. This makes it possible to clinically manage them in isolation units but obviously these have a finite capacity. When this is exceeded covid patients have to be accommodated elsewhere, usually on acute respiratory units. Today Mrs L's respiratory unit has lost 25% of its capacity so it can accept covid patients, one sole covid patient at present. Those patients moved to accommodate that covid patient have had to go to other wards, thus affecting their normal patient in-take ability. Similarly a profusion of very sick covid patients clogs up CCU and HDU, thus curtailing their ability to accept other patients, in particular those who would require post-operative care on these units. To me, that’s clear the NHS has been under funded for a long period and as a society we need to pay higher taxes to fund a health service that can look after people. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havors Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 10 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said: I was pointing out the cases aren't flat over the last 7 days. Depends what you define flat as I suppose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozanne Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 8 minutes ago, JB15 said: To me, that’s clear the NHS has been under funded for a long period and as a society we need to pay higher taxes to fund a health service that can look after people. 100%. I would pay more in taxes for a better funded, equipped and maintained NHS. In fact I would say more in taxes for better public services all round. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartbert two hats Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 15 minutes ago, Havors said: Depends what you define flat as I suppose? Not a rise of 40% in seven days, including areas that don't have any Delta outbreaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 GB News starts tonight. Enough is enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyfool1 Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, steviewevie said: GB News starts tonight. Enough is enough. does my TV have a block button ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havors Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 14 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said: Not a rise of 40% in seven days, including areas that don't have any Delta outbreaks. Fair point. I'm just looking at the actual numbers and not a the percentage rise. If it stays around 7k mark for another couple of days that 40% will drop a lot if its a rolling 7 day percentage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt42 Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 21 minutes ago, steviewevie said: GB News starts tonight. Enough is enough. I cannot believe the Fox News of the UK is here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartbert two hats Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 Just now, Havors said: Fair point. I'm just looking at the actual numbers and not a the percentage rise. If it stays around 7k mark for another couple of days that 40% will drop a lot if its a rolling 7 day percentage? Yeah, it may well. I'm cautiously hopeful that the tide will turn. However, I am cautious about looking too much at the national picture, as there have been some big geographical differences over the last few weeks - if we have some areas taking off with Delta whilst other are still decreasing because it's not reached those areas yet - then the big rises in some areas are masked by what's happening elsewhere, when the lowish areas may still take off. On the other hand, the longer other areas go without being infected, the more chance they have for vaccines bed in and make outbreaks harder. I've been burnt a few times by trying to see a pattern in the daily numbers, but sometimes it really does show the way. I'm really encouraged by the slowdown in Greater Manchester yesterday. If I had to bet, I'd say we'll see an increased flattening over the next few days, but won't be flat over 7 days. I'm increasingly confident this extension will do the job. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ale Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 probably 2023-2024 at most Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertProsineckisLighter Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 57 minutes ago, Ozanne said: 100%. I would pay more in taxes for a better funded, equipped and maintained NHS. In fact I would say more in taxes for better public services all round. Around 60p of every £ you pay in council tax goes on social care. I'd argue there is actually a need to educate people to financially plan for old age so that the cost of social care doesnt wholly land on the state as this problem is only getting worse as people live longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartbert two hats Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 6 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said: Around 60p of every £ you pay in council tax goes on social care. I'd argue there is actually a need to educate people to financially plan for old age so that the cost of social care doesnt wholly land on the state as this problem is only getting worse as people live longer. I'd argue we need to tax the rich. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Fish Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 37 minutes ago, Matt42 said: I cannot believe the Fox News of the UK is here. To be fair I think Andrew Neil deserves a bit more respect than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertProsineckisLighter Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said: I'd argue we need to tax the rich. I don't disagree... But there aren't enough rich to cover social care, NHS and all the other public services we rely on and take for granted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozanne Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said: Around 60p of every £ you pay in council tax goes on social care. I'd argue there is actually a need to educate people to financially plan for old age so that the cost of social care doesnt wholly land on the state as this problem is only getting worse as people live longer. We could always do with more education on financial matters. However I would say more tax on the rich and form a fully funded National Care Service that runs exactly like the NHS does but for social care (which would mean taxes go up for everyone too). Edited June 13, 2021 by Ozanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapple12345 Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 16 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said: Yeah, it may well. I'm cautiously hopeful that the tide will turn. However, I am cautious about looking too much at the national picture, as there have been some big geographical differences over the last few weeks - if we have some areas taking off with Delta whilst other are still decreasing because it's not reached those areas yet - then the big rises in some areas are masked by what's happening elsewhere, when the lowish areas may still take off. On the other hand, the longer other areas go without being infected, the more chance they have for vaccines bed in and make outbreaks harder. I've been burnt a few times by trying to see a pattern in the daily numbers, but sometimes it really does show the way. I'm really encouraged by the slowdown in Greater Manchester yesterday. If I had to bet, I'd say we'll see an increased flattening over the next few days, but won't be flat over 7 days. I'm increasingly confident this extension will do the job. Completely agree with all this - I'm assuming the ending of the 4 week extension would be confirmed the week before (12th July) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Fish Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 Just now, Ozanne said: We could always do with more education on financial matters. However I would say more tax on the rich and form a fully funded National Care Service that runs exactly like the NHS does but for social care. One of my biggest bug bears is when people complain they have to sell their house to fund their care. As if the state should pick up the tab because they want to leave their house to their middle aged children. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Fish Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 The USA case numbers have started to uptick now I noticed today. Be interesting to see how they react. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertProsineckisLighter Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Barry Fish said: One of my biggest bug bears is when people complain they have to sell their house to fund their care. As if the state should pick up the tab because they want to leave their house to their middle aged children. My biggest bug bear is people who are rightly entitled to get into social housing but when their circumstances change significantly. They are then able to continue to remain in the social dwelling for eternity. These sorts of policies just elongate the waiting list and make social housing less obtainable for those who truely need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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