When will this shit end?

[incident]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

This is what I don't get. By most metrics, including those that directly relate to the "four tests", we're still well below even the best case scenario outlined in February with regards to a June 21st reopening. Especially as it was made clear at the time that going forward the new determining factors were going to be vaccinations, hospitalisations, and deaths - not cases - and all of those still look great even with the Indian variant now "dominant".

The "explosion" in cases in Bolton has been a thing for a few weeks now and yet still remains largely localised and it's clear that it isn't having nearly the effect on healthcare that previous (pre-vaccination) outbreaks did. Bolton should give us confidence, not scare us. Yes, I understand that cases in other areas of Greater Manchester (and Nationally) have risen slightly - big deal. It was always considered likely that cases would increase with the May reopening - that was predicted in most models and so I don't see why it means we have to panic as though it's a huge shock. It was stated outright that those rises only really mattered in terms of how they impacted the NHS - which to date they appear to be doing in (at most) a minimal way and clearly no realistic chance of the "unsustainable pressure" that's supposed to be the threshold.

Anyone who's seriously trying to claim that reopening should even be delayed by a day is either outright moving the goalposts, or has been utterly hoodwinked by someone who is. To be very blunt about it - if we can't open now, we might as well all give up because we literally never will be able to by the impossible standard that's now being demanded from some quarters (including, worryingly, on this thread). There's always going to be variants, and there's always going to be unvaccinated people - we have to accept that just as we do for every single other disease. Someone who refuses to take the vaccine is making their own decision and that's fine but it's nonsensical to use that as a blocker for national decisions.

It looks very likely, based on the samples of data we've heard about, that the majority of those (still small numbers of) Hospitalisations are people who've not been vaccinated, or who it's not had time to kick in for. Given that everyone classed as Group 1 (the old and the vulnerable) has now had the chance of both doses, and it'll have had plenty time to take full effect by June 21st, there's not even slight justification to move that date.

Wow, that rant went a bit longer than I intended.

[zahidf]

4 minutes ago, incident said:

This is what I don't get. By most metrics, including those that directly relate to the "four tests", we're still well below even the best case scenario outlined in February with regards to a June 21st reopening. Especially as it was made clear at the time that going forward the new determining factors were going to be vaccinations, hospitalisations, and deaths - not cases - and all of those still look great even with the Indian variant now "dominant".

The "explosion" in cases in Bolton has been a thing for a few weeks now and yet still remains largely localised and it's clear that it isn't having nearly the effect on healthcare that previous (pre-vaccination) outbreaks did. Bolton should give us confidence, not scare us. Yes, I understand that cases in other areas of Greater Manchester (and Nationally) have risen slightly - big deal. It was always considered likely that cases would increase with the May reopening - that was predicted in most models and so I don't see why it means we have to panic as though it's a huge shock. It was stated outright that those rises only really mattered in terms of how they impacted the NHS - which to date they appear to be doing in (at most) a minimal way and clearly no realistic chance of the "unsustainable pressure" that's supposed to be the threshold.

Anyone who's seriously trying to claim that reopening should even be delayed by a day is either outright moving the goalposts, or has been utterly hoodwinked by someone who is. To be very blunt about it - if we can't open now, we might as well all give up because we literally never will be able to by the impossible standard that's now being demanded from some quarters (including, worryingly, on this thread). There's always going to be variants, and there's always going to be unvaccinated people - we have to accept that just as we do for every single other disease. Someone who refuses to take the vaccine is making their own decision and that's fine but it's nonsensical to use that as a blocker for national decisions.

It looks very likely, based on the samples of data we've heard about, that the majority of those (still small numbers of) Hospitalisations are people who've not been vaccinated, or who it's not had time to kick in for. Given that everyone classed as Group 1 (the old and the vulnerable) has now had the chance of both doses, and it'll have had plenty time to take full effect by June 21st, there's not even slight justification to move that date.

Wow, that rant went a bit longer than I intended.

I agree

I think people are getting scared because of a few fake sage people on the news and some overly cautious people.

But IT'S VERY clear that hospitalisations and deaths are well below what we had before

If we were in this situation last March, we wouldn't have changed a single thing.

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, zahidf said:

I agree

I think people are getting scared because of a few fake sage people on the news and some overly cautious people.

But IT'S VERY clear that hospitalisations and deaths are well below what we had before

If we were in this situation last March, we wouldn't have changed a single thing.

Yawn

[steviewevie]

Missing Christina already. Not missing Fuzz or Baz at all, the dicks.

 

[zahidf]

1 hour ago, ryan1992 said:

"It's not about the number of years in your life, but the amount of life in your years."

"Better to have a short life full of what you like doing, than a long life spent in a miserable way."

A couple of travel quotes I used to love, back when we could travel. If we don't wriggle ourselves free from this mental illness of covid safety and accept it's now endemic like the flu, and that the vulnerable have been vaccinated, and that the NHS is not going to be overwhelmed, and that there will always be new variants, then we are going to stuck in this perpetual loop of fear and lockdown indefinitely. Right now we are creating a culture where we wrap ourselves in cotton wool and live mediocre lives under the guise of safety. It's time to say no to this madness. June 21st open everything up.

Yup 100%. We need to burn the safety blanket and just trust the vaccines now.

[Ozanne]

14 minutes ago, zahidf said:

I agree

I think people are getting scared because of a few fake sage people on the news and some overly cautious people.

But IT'S VERY clear that hospitalisations and deaths are well below what we had before

If we were in this situation last March, we wouldn't have changed a single thing.

My view isn’t really anything to do with Indy SAGE, it’s formed by reviewing the data, the current state of the vaccination program, the current steps of the roadmap and ongoing government support.

But continue to blame the Scientists and not the government who’ve put us in this mess though. 

[steviewevie]

If they do delay a couple of weeks I'm going to get so angry that I'll come on here and have a right rant about nerd fake sage pagel boffins and demand that young people kick off immediately.

[BobWillis2]

11 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

If they do delay a couple of weeks I'm going to get so angry that I'll come on here and have a right rant about nerd fake sage pagel boffins and demand that young people kick off immediately.

Keep up the good posts steve 🥱🥱

[zahidf]

17 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

If they do delay a couple of weeks I'm going to get so angry that I'll come on here and have a right rant about nerd fake sage pagel boffins and demand that young people kick off immediately.

Look. 

 

All I'm saying is that we should smash the windows on the mansions in Chelsea, pour 10 pints of out of date beer over Bojo and stuff some lateral flow tests up the nose of Michael Gove.

 

Are you some sort of TORY who disagrees with that?

Edited June 4, 2021 by zahidf

[steviewevie]

Newsnight is where it's at. They reckon  2 week delay, and maybe restrictions similar to we have now over winter...

[steviewevie]

If is a 2 week delay then that's curtains for my kid's end of school prom thing, which is kind of sad but at same time will was save me a few quid.

Edited June 4, 2021 by steviewevie

[efcfanwirral]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Newsnight is where it's at. They reckon  2 week delay, and maybe restrictions similar to we have now over winter...

Wonder if they'll pay to help the events industry or see it as a "dead industry" where people should retrain 

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Wonder if they'll pay to help the events industry or see it as a "dead industry" where people should retrain 

I mean  no one can forecast accurately what winter will be like, we don't even know how we'll be in a few weeks. 

[Matt42]

1 hour ago, zero000 said:

That quote is ill thought out, as it will never go away. The video however puts it in the context of likely moving away from mandatory social distancing this year. That seems reasonable. However Drakeford’s reference to there being no “thirst” for people to give up social distancing is a bit naive imo.  Younger people want pubs and clubs back as normal. People want to watch live sport in a stadium with full capacities. It probably speaks more to his personal perspective than a population one. 

Typical welsh labour thinking everyone wants to live in a nanny state.

[Matt42]

1 hour ago, incident said:

This is what I don't get. By most metrics, including those that directly relate to the "four tests", we're still well below even the best case scenario outlined in February with regards to a June 21st reopening. Especially as it was made clear at the time that going forward the new determining factors were going to be vaccinations, hospitalisations, and deaths - not cases - and all of those still look great even with the Indian variant now "dominant".

The "explosion" in cases in Bolton has been a thing for a few weeks now and yet still remains largely localised and it's clear that it isn't having nearly the effect on healthcare that previous (pre-vaccination) outbreaks did. Bolton should give us confidence, not scare us. Yes, I understand that cases in other areas of Greater Manchester (and Nationally) have risen slightly - big deal. It was always considered likely that cases would increase with the May reopening - that was predicted in most models and so I don't see why it means we have to panic as though it's a huge shock. It was stated outright that those rises only really mattered in terms of how they impacted the NHS - which to date they appear to be doing in (at most) a minimal way and clearly no realistic chance of the "unsustainable pressure" that's supposed to be the threshold.

Anyone who's seriously trying to claim that reopening should even be delayed by a day is either outright moving the goalposts, or has been utterly hoodwinked by someone who is. To be very blunt about it - if we can't open now, we might as well all give up because we literally never will be able to by the impossible standard that's now being demanded from some quarters (including, worryingly, on this thread). There's always going to be variants, and there's always going to be unvaccinated people - we have to accept that just as we do for every single other disease. Someone who refuses to take the vaccine is making their own decision and that's fine but it's nonsensical to use that as a blocker for national decisions.

It looks very likely, based on the samples of data we've heard about, that the majority of those (still small numbers of) Hospitalisations are people who've not been vaccinated, or who it's not had time to kick in for. Given that everyone classed as Group 1 (the old and the vulnerable) has now had the chance of both doses, and it'll have had plenty time to take full effect by June 21st, there's not even slight justification to move that date.

Wow, that rant went a bit longer than I intended.

I said weeks ago that this indie SAGE zero covid strategy was going to start really influencing policy. It has. 

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Typical welsh labour thinking everyone wants to live in a nanny state.

I'd like to live there.

[Matt42]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

I'd like to live there.

We should start banning going outside when it rains because you might catch a cold.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Matt42 said:

We should start banning going outside when it rains because you might catch a cold.

That is actually a very good idea.

[ShakeyCrash]

6 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Typical welsh labour thinking everyone wants to live in a nanny state.

Yeah, looking after us and telling the truth rather than what we want to hear.  What a bunch of pricks.

[jparx]

18 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Newsnight is where it's at. They reckon  2 week delay, and maybe restrictions similar to we have now over winter...

Why are we even contemplating any restrictions over winter at this stage? The aim should be for this to be over as something we need to deal with, beyond suggesting masks are a good idea, after the summer. If we’ve vaccinated everyone twice AND offered boosters to the older and vulnerable, what are we even doing if we’re already talking about restrictions coming back after the summer? 

[Matt42]

2 minutes ago, ShakeyCrash said:

Yeah, looking after us and telling the truth rather than what we want to hear.  What a bunch of pricks.

What truth? Future lockdowns and future restrictions are made on pure speculation of a non-existent variant arising. Keeping social distancing in place when threat is low is an extremely over protective way of looking after us. I know that virtually everything in life comes with risk, it didn't stop us living our life before, why should it now?

[Scotdy]

5 minutes ago, ShakeyCrash said:

Yeah, looking after us and telling the truth rather than what we want to hear.  What a bunch of pricks.

Drakeford feeds off the power, the longer he can keep everyone scared, the stronger he gets. 

He's like a really shit grey supervillian. 

[Matt42]

We had zero deaths for covid the other day.

Have we ever had a day in living British history where 0 people died of an illness like the flu? 

It's incredible how far we've come. I feel like a lot of people don't even want to acknowledge it. Its all getting too political, and it seems like there really is an ulterior motive going on.

[ShakeyCrash]

3 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

What truth? Future lockdowns and future restrictions are made on pure speculation of a non-existent variant arising. Keeping social distancing in place when threat is low is an extremely over protective way of looking after us. I know that virtually everything in life comes with risk, it didn't stop us living our life before, why should it now?

The line is they are pausing for 2 weeks to get more data on the Indian variant, and review things every 3 weeks exactly for the reasons you just outlined. I watched the whole announcement along with all the after questions.  The social distance comment was speculative yes, but to focus on that above other things just shows why we are where we are in the political sphere (politicians being do guarded as to never give a straight answer). I prefer to focus on the fact that on Monday we will have details on when all of wales will be fully vaccinated.

[Ozanne]

1 minute ago, ShakeyCrash said:

The line is they are pausing for 2 weeks to get more data on the Indian variant, and review things every 3 weeks exactly for the reasons you just outlined. I watched the whole announcement along with all the after questions.  The social distance comment was speculative yes, but to focus on that above other things just shows why we are where we are in the political sphere (politicians being do guarded as to never give a straight answer). I prefer to focus on the fact that on Monday we will have details on when all of wales will be fully vaccinated.

That will be an incredible achievement, Wales have done do well to get this close to fully vaccinating everyone.