Jump to content

When will this shit end?


Chrisp1986

Recommended Posts

I think when Fluvid-25 or whatever the next pandemic is emerges, you’ll see countries take a blended approach roughly in line with the New Zealand approach to ZeroCovid but the UK approach to vaccines.

 

So basically the best way to maintain normality is to shut the borders early, aggressive TTI, snap lockdowns when you do get community transmission, but also not to get complacent and make sure you have a rapid vaccine rollout to get the borders reopened. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

theres also the balance of how many 3-5 day lockdowns equal the long lockdowns that we have had .... have some areas been out of lockdown this year ?

Some parts of the UK have been in a form of lockdown since last March pretty much, areas such as Leicester.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Gregfc15 said:

Yeah, and this is where I've fallen away a little from the Zero-Covid view (partly shaped by discussion on here). I still think unchecked community transmission is bad, and that you need systems (TTI, Travel restrictions) to manage it, but the beauty of my GFL obsession and thus this forum is that just how well the vaccines work is very apparent to me. Zero covid is fine when you have no mitigation, but the vaccines are like bringing a machine gun to a knife fight and the transition from a cases = bad mindset to worrying more about the adverse effects most is a conversation that Australia and NZ have yet to really tackle with any great success.  There is definitely going to be a tipping point later this year where some normality starts to resume in the US/UK/Europe.

I've likened it to a downhill snowboard race. Australia and NZ have been slow and steady and were leading the pack, but have fallen on their heads on the final jump. Meanwhile the US/Uk/Europe couldn't stay upright initially, are flying home and going to pass us on the finish line while we are still trying to get up.

yeah, but at the end compare the numbers who died in Oz/NZ with US/Europe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Gregfc15 said:

Australia is interesting to watch at the moment as you have competing Covid ideologies between the different states and a federal government that can't decide which way it wants to go.

The federal government here have largely been useless, leaving everything they can to the States and Territories while posturing and grandstanding as if they have it all in hand. This is partly why Australia are doing so poorly in recent weeks - lockdowns and everything that went with them were primarily State government decisions, whereas the federal government has a much more active hand in vaccination rollout. Scott Morrison (PM) is guilty of major dithering and will almost certainly fall victim to Australia's relentless PM churn at the next available opportunity.

32 minutes ago, st dan said:

So if the vaccine rollout doesn’t go well in Aus and NZ (which I guess is likely) then in the next few months when most of the other developed nations will be back to levels of ‘normality’ they very possibly could still be locking down for 3-5 days due to 2/3 cases in the community? 

Patience is wearing very thin on the ground over widespread (sometimes state-wide) lockdowns over one or two cases, but the lack of tourism and short stay visa holders is killing related industries over here, and the federal subsidies are gradually reaching the end of their lifespan, so things are getting rough for many.

Daily life for most people is pretty much back to normal here and has been for a while, with full capacity venues, no masks or social distancing requirements (none that are enforced anyway), but international travel is still essentially closed, except for the New Zealand bubble, which will soon extend to pacific islands.

At the current rate of vaccination, Australia won't vaccinate their population until mid 2023, which is astonishing for such a low population, which has been comparatively almost COVID free since the crisis began. That pace will pick up mid-year when a mass delivery of Pfizer will arrive, so we'll do it way before 2023, but the government have abandoned all their targets to get the job done by the end of the year. Christmas will mark two years since I last saw my family, with my parents turning 70 this year. It's not doing wonders for my anxiety if I think about it too much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yeah, but at the end compare the numbers who died in Oz/NZ with US/Europe.

It is a bit of a crap analogy in hindsight. There are more important factors in evaluating a response like deaths, days locked down, economic damage than opening up quickest. 

Edited by Gregfc15
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Germany is planning to make the AstraZeneca vaccine available to all adults in Germany irrespective of age and pre-existing health conditions, in an attempt to help doctors shift leftover doses.

 

We should arguably to that in the UK now we have most of the over 40s done. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Barry Fish said:

Surely with very little community immunity and a slow vaccine rollout then Australia and NZ have little to no choice but continue down there current path.  If they attempted anything else it would be like March 2020 but with more nasty versions of the virus like the UK variant knocking around

I don’t disagree. Its the only way forward until they get more jabs in arms. It’s more whether you take the New South Wales (and here in singapore although they are shitting the bed this week) approach where you acknowledge the odd case will pop up, but you have faith in your TTI processes and you play whack a mole while it’s only circulating at low levels, or the WA style approach or snap lockdowns at the sign of every new case. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, fraybentos1 said:

Probs take some flack for this but a few people on here are in the indy sage camp of almost seeming to want to live under restrictions as long as possible and avoid going back to normal. And i don't just mean for scientific reasons. 

I think a few of us want to live under restrictions until we get vaccinated with one dose, so y'know, we don't die or end up in hospital. It does seem that the majority of those in the "open it all up now" camp also appear to have been vaccinated for one reason or another. Doesn't seem like a single person turned it down..

14 hours ago, fraybentos1 said:

The answer to any of it isn't to prolong this pish a second longer than it needs to be. It is to open things up and for people to gradually (if they want) get back out there.

It's not quite that simple though - reopening stuff and having massively reduced demand because of too many people being hesitant to get back out there will cause problems for many industries. Plus you're then forcing people back into work who are not yet vaccinated. It's not always a choice. And lastly, if the people that run the things you want to go and do are the hesitant ones then those things won't be back. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JoeyT said:

It's interesting in that clearly their strategy has worked in suppressing / eliminating the virus and it's no doubt the extra freedoms this has allowed citizens is much more palatable compared to what most of the rest of the world has endured. 

You'd think there will come a point however when mood may swing due to the restricting rules of not being able to leave the country whilst potentially watching many other countries returning to free movement?

My sister said the vaccination programme in Western Australia is dire and very slow moving.

That mood swing would then cause thousands of deaths. They are genuinely in a very tricky spot politically now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

I think a few of us want to live under restrictions until we get vaccinated with one dose, so y'know, we don't die or end up in hospital. It does seem that the majority of those in the "open it all up now" camp also appear to have been vaccinated for one reason or another. Doesn't seem like a single person turned it down..

It's not quite that simple though - reopening stuff and having massively reduced demand because of too many people being hesitant to get back out there will cause problems for many industries. Plus you're then forcing people back into work who are not yet vaccinated. It's not always a choice. And lastly, if the people that run the things you want to go and do are the hesitant ones then those things won't be back. 

 

If you are under 40 with no health conditions (which is basically everyone who is yet to be vaccinated) then you aren't going to die from Covid. Especially with such low levels in the community atm. It is so rare that if you worry about that then you might as well worry about being knocked down by a bus every day.

Also, I don't get where the whole ' lack of demand' stuff is coming from. Sure a chunk might be apprehensive but we are human beings and by our nature social creatures. People will soon get back to normal when they are allowed to and when cases stay dead low due to the vaccines. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

They really should let people have the choice of having the AZ

Strongly agree. Australia has the capacity to produce the AZ vaccine onshore, but the government freaked out over the tiny number of blood clots (currently eleven, most of which had underlying conditions), so now Pfizer is the vaccine of choice for all under 50's.

If someone offered me the AZ today, I'd take it without hesitation. A very small risk of side effects just means it has that in common with every drug you can take, prescribed or not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Sorry but there was absolutely none of this offered to those of us who rely on social contact back during the lockdowns world forgive me if I don’t lose any sleep for those who are suffering now. I’m excited for the reopenings. 

I won't argue that this thread has been a shitshow since around Christmas, I think that's because as soon as we got the vaccine the big divide came down between the "open up now" and "wait until more are vaccinated" groups. Up to that point it's been almost constantly supportive. Like this community always is.

People have offered advice, offered a chance for people to have a chat, there have been organised video meet-ups run by people on these boards to try and offer some social contact to those who wanted it. People have advised on new hobbies folk could try, or ways people can get some social contact while still under lockdown. People have gone out of their way to help.

Yes, sometimes that has also included a bit of tough love. But that's because yes, some of us are naturally introverts, we struggle with social interaction, it's a constant uphill battle for us in normal times. And yeah, our mental health has probably benefited a bit from the reduced social expectations in lockdown (mine did for a few months, until we were forced out of our home by a dangerously unstable individual that wasn't getting the care he needed because of COVID, and then we had to deal with relatives actually dying from it - which isn't great for mental health either).

But what that also means is we know what you're feeling now, because it's what we feel all the time in our lives normally. Which also means: we know you'll get through it. Because we all have. Not just a year's worth, but a lifetime's worth. And yeah, we do hope that not *everything* goes back to the way it was before. We hope that maybe, just maybe, having walked a year in our shoes, you might have developed just the slightest bit of empathy for people whose brains work a little differently from yours. Realised that introverts and extroverts are just people with different needs, that introverts aren't just broken and extroverts superior - rather that society is just designed to cater to the needs of extroverts better. 

We hope that when you hear about people with mental health issues, or indeed any kind of chronic illness or disability, you can actually understand, because you've experienced the smallest bit of what that's like: except that in your case, you knew it was going to end and the whole of society was willing to contort itself to ensure you were okay. The fact that even with that, you still struggled, would make you realise how difficult some other people have it. 

That's what I hope for. That maybe something positive could come out of this shitshow of a year. Then I read posts like yours and realised you've not learned a damn thing. And y'know, I can't even be angry with it. I can't summon the strength. I just feel genuine, utter despair. That your take away is "fuck em, let's go to the pub".  Enjoy your new-found freedom.

  • Like 7
  • Upvote 16
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

If you are under 40 with no health conditions (which is basically everyone who is yet to be vaccinated) then you aren't going to die from Covid. Especially with such low levels in the community atm. It is so rare that if you worry about that then you might as well worry about being knocked down by a bus every day.

I'm under 40. Do I have any underlying health conditions? I don't know. 

That's the thing people are missing. Unless you actually have known health conditions, when you're that young you're not getting regular check-ups. Most of those people in their 30s and 40s that died of COVID but had "underlying health conditions" didn't know they had those conditions. 

I'll agree the odds of me dying from it are very low. But it's not quite as straighforwards as you think. And also, having seen what it can do to people, I don't want to catch it and survive it either, to be quite frank. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

I won't argue that this thread has been a shitshow since around Christmas, I think that's because as soon as we got the vaccine the big divide came down between the "open up now" and "wait until more are vaccinated" groups. Up to that point it's been almost constantly supportive. Like this community always is.

People have offered advice, offered a chance for people to have a chat, there have been organised video meet-ups run by people on these boards to try and offer some social contact to those who wanted it. People have advised on new hobbies folk could try, or ways people can get some social contact while still under lockdown. People have gone out of their way to help.

Yes, sometimes that has also included a bit of tough love. But that's because yes, some of us are naturally introverts, we struggle with social interaction, it's a constant uphill battle for us in normal times. And yeah, our mental health has probably benefited a bit from the reduced social expectations in lockdown (mine did for a few months, until we were forced out of our home by a dangerously unstable individual that wasn't getting the care he needed because of COVID, and then we had to deal with relatives actually dying from it - which isn't great for mental health either).

But what that also means is we know what you're feeling now, because it's what we feel all the time in our lives normally. Which also means: we know you'll get through it. Because we all have. Not just a year's worth, but a lifetime's worth. And yeah, we do hope that not *everything* goes back to the way it was before. We hope that maybe, just maybe, having walked a year in our shoes, you might have developed just the slightest bit of empathy for people whose brains work a little differently from yours. Realised that introverts and extroverts are just people with different needs, that introverts aren't just broken and extroverts superior - rather that society is just designed to cater to the needs of extroverts better. 

We hope that when you hear about people with mental health issues, or indeed any kind of chronic illness or disability, you can actually understand, because you've experienced the smallest bit of what that's like: except that in your case, you knew it was going to end and the whole of society was willing to contort itself to ensure you were okay. The fact that even with that, you still struggled, would make you realise how difficult some other people have it. 

That's what I hope for. That maybe something positive could come out of this shitshow of a year. Then I read posts like yours and realised you've not learned a damn thing. And y'know, I can't even be angry with it. I can't summon the strength. I just feel genuine, utter despair. That your take away is "fuck em, let's go to the pub".  Enjoy your new-found freedom.

If everyone was like you then the world would be a better place.

 

Unfortunately though, too many introverts used lockdown as a point scoring exercise. “Look at me, society is finally catered for introverts to fuck anyone who actually enjoys company. I love staying at home and so should you” sort of rhetoric.

 

These sort of people have taken genuine pleasure in the fact that for myself and others it’s been a year of having to decide between breaking the law to see our loved ones, or not seeing them at all. 
 

Had there been more attempts to design a more compassionate lockdown (e.g. close the pubs, but you can socialise with people you love if you really need to) then I’d be more compassionate. But the introverts succeeded in completely criminalising basic socialising. That’s why I don’t have sympathy with them. 11 more days until seeing my partner isn’t a crime. Not that it will make any difference in practical terms since I’m doing it anyway but I can’t wait until the day when no one can try to stop me. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

I'm under 40. Do I have any underlying health conditions? I don't know. 

That's the thing people are missing. Unless you actually have known health conditions, when you're that young you're not getting regular check-ups. Most of those people in their 30s and 40s that died of COVID but had "underlying health conditions" didn't know they had those conditions. 

I'll agree the odds of me dying from it are very low. But it's not quite as straighforwards as you think. And also, having seen what it can do to people, I don't want to catch it and survive it either, to be quite frank. 

Yep I don't want to catch it either which is why it is fantastic that by July all adults will be vaxxed and due to the amount done already prevalence is so low that until then it's perfectly safe for me in my mid 20s to get as far back to normal as i can.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

I won't argue that this thread has been a shitshow since around Christmas, I think that's because as soon as we got the vaccine the big divide came down between the "open up now" and "wait until more are vaccinated" groups. Up to that point it's been almost constantly supportive. Like this community always is.

People have offered advice, offered a chance for people to have a chat, there have been organised video meet-ups run by people on these boards to try and offer some social contact to those who wanted it. People have advised on new hobbies folk could try, or ways people can get some social contact while still under lockdown. People have gone out of their way to help.

Yes, sometimes that has also included a bit of tough love. But that's because yes, some of us are naturally introverts, we struggle with social interaction, it's a constant uphill battle for us in normal times. And yeah, our mental health has probably benefited a bit from the reduced social expectations in lockdown (mine did for a few months, until we were forced out of our home by a dangerously unstable individual that wasn't getting the care he needed because of COVID, and then we had to deal with relatives actually dying from it - which isn't great for mental health either).

But what that also means is we know what you're feeling now, because it's what we feel all the time in our lives normally. Which also means: we know you'll get through it. Because we all have. Not just a year's worth, but a lifetime's worth. And yeah, we do hope that not *everything* goes back to the way it was before. We hope that maybe, just maybe, having walked a year in our shoes, you might have developed just the slightest bit of empathy for people whose brains work a little differently from yours. Realised that introverts and extroverts are just people with different needs, that introverts aren't just broken and extroverts superior - rather that society is just designed to cater to the needs of extroverts better. 

We hope that when you hear about people with mental health issues, or indeed any kind of chronic illness or disability, you can actually understand, because you've experienced the smallest bit of what that's like: except that in your case, you knew it was going to end and the whole of society was willing to contort itself to ensure you were okay. The fact that even with that, you still struggled, would make you realise how difficult some other people have it. 

That's what I hope for. That maybe something positive could come out of this shitshow of a year. Then I read posts like yours and realised you've not learned a damn thing. And y'know, I can't even be angry with it. I can't summon the strength. I just feel genuine, utter despair. That your take away is "fuck em, let's go to the pub".  Enjoy your new-found freedom.

 

Out of upvotes, but couldn't agree more - great post.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, steviewevie said:

DeanoL has got to be up there with one of the best posters on this thread...just behind me and some bloke called toiletduck.

Absolutely totally agree thanks @DeanoL really appreciate the well thought out and considered opinion … and the mention of the virtual meets that have been open to anyone throughout this … and have helped me come away with more friends than I thought possible and have been a great filler for some of the lacking laughter in life 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

I won't argue that this thread has been a shitshow since around Christmas, I think that's because as soon as we got the vaccine the big divide came down between the "open up now" and "wait until more are vaccinated" groups. Up to that point it's been almost constantly supportive. Like this community always is.

People have offered advice, offered a chance for people to have a chat, there have been organised video meet-ups run by people on these boards to try and offer some social contact to those who wanted it. People have advised on new hobbies folk could try, or ways people can get some social contact while still under lockdown. People have gone out of their way to help.

Yes, sometimes that has also included a bit of tough love. But that's because yes, some of us are naturally introverts, we struggle with social interaction, it's a constant uphill battle for us in normal times. And yeah, our mental health has probably benefited a bit from the reduced social expectations in lockdown (mine did for a few months, until we were forced out of our home by a dangerously unstable individual that wasn't getting the care he needed because of COVID, and then we had to deal with relatives actually dying from it - which isn't great for mental health either).

But what that also means is we know what you're feeling now, because it's what we feel all the time in our lives normally. Which also means: we know you'll get through it. Because we all have. Not just a year's worth, but a lifetime's worth. And yeah, we do hope that not *everything* goes back to the way it was before. We hope that maybe, just maybe, having walked a year in our shoes, you might have developed just the slightest bit of empathy for people whose brains work a little differently from yours. Realised that introverts and extroverts are just people with different needs, that introverts aren't just broken and extroverts superior - rather that society is just designed to cater to the needs of extroverts better. 

We hope that when you hear about people with mental health issues, or indeed any kind of chronic illness or disability, you can actually understand, because you've experienced the smallest bit of what that's like: except that in your case, you knew it was going to end and the whole of society was willing to contort itself to ensure you were okay. The fact that even with that, you still struggled, would make you realise how difficult some other people have it. 

That's what I hope for. That maybe something positive could come out of this shitshow of a year. Then I read posts like yours and realised you've not learned a damn thing. And y'know, I can't even be angry with it. I can't summon the strength. I just feel genuine, utter despair. That your take away is "fuck em, let's go to the pub".  Enjoy your new-found freedom.

Well said! i don't always agree with you but always find your posts interesting to read and polite

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

I won't argue that this thread has been a shitshow since around Christmas, I think that's because as soon as we got the vaccine the big divide came down between the "open up now" and "wait until more are vaccinated" groups. Up to that point it's been almost constantly supportive. Like this community always is.

People have offered advice, offered a chance for people to have a chat, there have been organised video meet-ups run by people on these boards to try and offer some social contact to those who wanted it. People have advised on new hobbies folk could try, or ways people can get some social contact while still under lockdown. People have gone out of their way to help.

Yes, sometimes that has also included a bit of tough love. But that's because yes, some of us are naturally introverts, we struggle with social interaction, it's a constant uphill battle for us in normal times. And yeah, our mental health has probably benefited a bit from the reduced social expectations in lockdown (mine did for a few months, until we were forced out of our home by a dangerously unstable individual that wasn't getting the care he needed because of COVID, and then we had to deal with relatives actually dying from it - which isn't great for mental health either).

But what that also means is we know what you're feeling now, because it's what we feel all the time in our lives normally. Which also means: we know you'll get through it. Because we all have. Not just a year's worth, but a lifetime's worth. And yeah, we do hope that not *everything* goes back to the way it was before. We hope that maybe, just maybe, having walked a year in our shoes, you might have developed just the slightest bit of empathy for people whose brains work a little differently from yours. Realised that introverts and extroverts are just people with different needs, that introverts aren't just broken and extroverts superior - rather that society is just designed to cater to the needs of extroverts better. 

We hope that when you hear about people with mental health issues, or indeed any kind of chronic illness or disability, you can actually understand, because you've experienced the smallest bit of what that's like: except that in your case, you knew it was going to end and the whole of society was willing to contort itself to ensure you were okay. The fact that even with that, you still struggled, would make you realise how difficult some other people have it. 

That's what I hope for. That maybe something positive could come out of this shitshow of a year. Then I read posts like yours and realised you've not learned a damn thing. And y'know, I can't even be angry with it. I can't summon the strength. I just feel genuine, utter despair. That your take away is "fuck em, let's go to the pub".  Enjoy your new-found freedom.

Would give this all the upvotes if I could!

Edited by Zoo Music Girl
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

I'm under 40. Do I have any underlying health conditions? I don't know. 

That's the thing people are missing. Unless you actually have known health conditions, when you're that young you're not getting regular check-ups. Most of those people in their 30s and 40s that died of COVID but had "underlying health conditions" didn't know they had those conditions. 

I'll agree the odds of me dying from it are very low. But it's not quite as straighforwards as you think. And also, having seen what it can do to people, I don't want to catch it and survive it either, to be quite frank. 

That’s also the thing with anxiety, sometimes it doesn’t matter how slim the chances of something are anxiety can lead a person to believe it’s very likely to happen. That would then lead to over-thinking and constant worrying. It also then doesn’t help when people say ‘oh you shouldn’t think like that…’ that’s one of the worst things to say when someone is going through anxiety. Anxiety is a horrible beast but is definitely something we as a society are getting better with. 

  • Downvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m normally a very social person so lockdowns have hit me hard. I know others who say it’s not really made much difference to them.

Considering we’ve all been to Glastonbury and it’s had enough of an effect on us to still be around here a year out from the next one and more than a year out from the last one, we should all know that people come in all shapes, sizes and personalities and respect for your fellow humans is key.

Where has the humility gone?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

If everyone was like you then the world would be a better place.

Unfortunately though, too many introverts used lockdown as a point scoring exercise. “Look at me, society is finally catered for introverts to fuck anyone who actually enjoys company. I love staying at home and so should you” sort of rhetoric.

These sort of people have taken genuine pleasure in the fact that for myself and others it’s been a year of having to decide between breaking the law to see our loved ones, or not seeing them at all. 

I'm not going to deny those people exist, but please don't try and blame them for government decisions based on science. Most of the reasoning around having a less compassionate lockdown comes from the fact that it's unenforceable. The people you should really be angry with are those that want to push the limit of every rule, and see how far they can get away with breaking it. I was (and am, I guess) in favour of a more sophisticated, friendlier lockdown. People may remember I actually defended the Christmas bubble approach for a fair while. I think something like that should have been what we did all along - so everyone can form exclusive bubbles of six people or two households. I still think scientifically that's sound (although where people have kids in school or are having to go into work it's harder - and part of the problem is you might have to have different measures for those people). I think with 100% compliance that'd be fine. But without mass surveillance people would take advantage of it. You could go out with anyone and claim "this is my bubble".  And enough people would do it then it would all break down. (And just to be clear, that's not a dig at you breaking the rules currently - you're not taking the piss, but you know people would).

And please bear in mind that for every person taking pleasure in your suffering, there's probably ten others that have done what they can to make things easier for you - including all those people setting up live streams for music and comedy, setting up and nurturing online communities and so on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...