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When will this shit end?


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I think on a music festival message board it’s a legitimate question to ask. It doesn’t suggest the OP doesn’t give a shit about anything else. Of course there are much bigger things to be worrie

So...OX/AZ, blood clots, suspension of vaccinations, politics, vaccine hesitancy, convoluted data, PR problems, Brexit, EU procurement naivety, poor logistics, national identity...there’s an awful lot

A while since I/we posted because just like everyone else we get fed up of this shit. So just like to say..... For the first time since last March we are free of covid patients 😊

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Was moving house recently and I bought some cheap second hand furniture on gumtree from a small local business, when the chap came round to drop the stuff off he said that they’d been working from home for the entire pandemic and had decided to just go fully remote and exercise an early get out clause on their corporate rent because they hadn’t noticed any downturn in business due to WFH so the corporate rent was basically a waste of money. 

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10 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Problem with that is provision of services - and where are these people coming from? Why would they be in these towns and cities of they don't need to be there for work?

Young for affordable housing and the bars/clubs mixing with same age group

Elders for ease of transport/culture/theatres/restaurants 

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It isn't just huge corporations like Greggs and Pret that benefit from people being working in offices, it's small local independents too. I work in a town just outside Glasgow and the local cafe i go to sometimes is fucked atm cause of offices and colleges being closed.

As ever on this thread, people get mixed up between what suits them and what benefits the majority. FWIW I think a mix between wfh and offices is fair enough. But to say you can do the exact same work from home 5 days p/w as in the office just is not true (exceptions of course). Things won't always be like this- we will get back to people in offices, meetings etc.

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I really hope my employer takes your stances on not cutting pay for full time working from home! They have sent a survey out this week and announcing their future of work plan in the next month or so. I fully expect that they will cut my pay however if they let me work from home rather than go back to London and attend the office once or twice a week (I would have to quit in this scenario as I am not moving back to London). Absolutely bonkers as I have been doing the same job remotely for over a year and would continue to be doing said job going forwards with literally no reason to go into the office. 

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1 minute ago, hodgey123 said:

I really hope my employer takes your stances on not cutting pay for full time working from home! They have sent a survey out this week and announcing their future of work plan in the next month or so. I fully expect that they will cut my pay however if they let me work from home rather than go back to London and attend the office once or twice a week (I would have to quit in this scenario as I am not moving back to London). Absolutely bonkers as I have been doing the same job remotely for over a year and would continue to be doing said job going forwards with literally no reason to go into the office. 

And for what it’s worth, even though it’s entirely unfair and illogical, I would accept a pay cut as I think I’d still be better off net given the costs of a mortgage here would still be less than monthly rent in London, and no commuting costs/general London expenses. 

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1 minute ago, hodgey123 said:

I really hope my employer takes your stances on not cutting pay for full time working from home! They have sent a survey out this week and announcing their future of work plan in the next month or so. I fully expect that they will cut my pay however if they let me work from home rather than go back to London and attend the office once or twice a week (I would have to quit in this scenario as I am not moving back to London). Absolutely bonkers as I have been doing the same job remotely for over a year and would continue to be doing said job going forwards with literally no reason to go into the office. 

I presume you've been working effectively with no knock on productivity? Without the distractions of a full office people can be more productive working remotely, I think businesses realise this and can see after a year of the pandemic that productivity hasn't been hampered.

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3 minutes ago, hodgey123 said:

I really hope my employer takes your stances on not cutting pay for full time working from home! They have sent a survey out this week and announcing their future of work plan in the next month or so. I fully expect that they will cut my pay however if they let me work from home rather than go back to London and attend the office once or twice a week (I would have to quit in this scenario as I am not moving back to London). Absolutely bonkers as I have been doing the same job remotely for over a year and would continue to be doing said job going forwards with literally no reason to go into the office. 

I assume you would lose the London weighting if your contract changed to homeworking e.g. your place of work is your home address? 

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Its an interesting debate to me- obviously very niche in services (digital marketing for me) but since I went freelance I've come across and worked with a lot of successful remote only companies. They hire freelancers to do the work needed at the time, with no overheads and a lot more flexibility to get the right work done than an agency who sometimes have to fit the work around the team they've got. In my very narrow field of work I'm actually finding everything much more efficient and things actually seem to get done and results achieved way more than before. 

Downside is obviously the more who accept (and even embrace) no employment rights is damaging to those rights overall. I'm very wary of that but there's not a lot I can do about it. I actually went freelance to travel a bit but after a year the pandemic hit so I've never really had to consider any of this as the plan wasn't really to freelance in normal life, never mind in a town vs a city!

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2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I presume you've been working effectively with no knock on productivity? Without the distractions of a full office people can be more productive working remotely, I think businesses realise this and can see after a year of the pandemic that productivity hasn't been hampered.

This arguement of distractions is always my favourite in this discussion - it's not like there are no distractions at home.

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10 minutes ago, hodgey123 said:

I really hope my employer takes your stances on not cutting pay for full time working from home! They have sent a survey out this week and announcing their future of work plan in the next month or so. I fully expect that they will cut my pay however if they let me work from home rather than go back to London and attend the office once or twice a week (I would have to quit in this scenario as I am not moving back to London). Absolutely bonkers as I have been doing the same job remotely for over a year and would continue to be doing said job going forwards with literally no reason to go into the office. 

Taking away the London weighting side of it, but in general considering the amount they'd save from a smaller office a double saving by reducing wages is mad but a Tory wet dream really...

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6 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I presume you've been working effectively with no knock on productivity? Without the distractions of a full office people can be more productive working remotely, I think businesses realise this and can see after a year of the pandemic that productivity hasn't been hampered.

My productivity has improved! Working flexibly actually leads to me doing more (eg you realise time spent just scrolling social media could actually be productive and get ahead of work) and I don’t mind that - it is a much better trade off than chucking 2 hours a day down the train on a tube. 

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6 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

I assume you would lose the London weighting if your contract changed to homeworking e.g. your place of work is your home address? 

Yeah I’m assuming I’d lose this weighting and go down to the regional bands. We had members in our team that relocated to different offices who are then on different bands which I can understand but equally do not agree with at all as it’s the same job in the same team! 

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1 minute ago, efcfanwirral said:

Taking away the London weighting side of it, but in general considering the amount they'd save from a smaller office a double saving by reducing wages is mad but a Tory wet dream really...

Yeah exactly. Our team was too big pre-COVID so we had a WFH rota anyway, so even more so here. 

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Just now, hodgey123 said:

My productivity has improved! Working flexibly actually leads to me doing more (eg you realise time spent just scrolling social media could actually be productive and get ahead of work) and I don’t mind that - it is a much better trade off than chucking 2 hours a day down the train on a tube. 

I thought that might be the case! I'm sure you're not the only one that has seen their productivity improve as well. Not just for the reasons you say but also because they are happier and in a more comfortable environment.

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12 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

It isn't just huge corporations like Greggs and Pret that benefit from people being working in offices, it's small local independents too. I work in a town just outside Glasgow and the local cafe i go to sometimes is fucked atm cause of offices and colleges being closed.

As ever on this thread, people get mixed up between what suits them and what benefits the majority. FWIW I think a mix between wfh and offices is fair enough. But to say you can do the exact same work from home 5 days p/w as in the office just is not true (exceptions of course). Things won't always be like this- we will get back to people in offices, meetings etc.

Everything changes-should everyone have kept renting videos in the 90s to stop video rental shops going bust? 

As some business's become no longer viable, other ones will become viable. If city centres see less business, rents will come down, reducing costs and possibly seeing retail space become residential space, which would then see an upswing of people living there, and available to use services like the cafes you're worried about. 

Just seem short sighted to think of it as a bad thing. 

Lots of us have lived in towns that declined partially due to people having to move to or commute to cities, now some of that might swing back

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4 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I thought that might be the case! I'm sure you're not the only one that has seen their productivity improve as well. Not just for the reasons you say but also because they are happier and in a more comfortable environment.

Yeah, our team’s productivity is measured monthly and it’s up year on year. We will see what they announce in May. A competitor (PwC) announced quite a flexible hybrid model but it still sounded as if there was a minimum 2 days a week office presence required, which wouldn’t work for me. 

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Just now, hodgey123 said:

Yeah I’m assuming I’d lose this weighting and go down to the regional bands. We had members in our team that relocated to different offices who are then on different bands which I can understand but equally do not agree with at all as it’s the same job in the same team! 

Nope - I agree with you. We have about 30 staff doing the same job as me. About 20 of them are based in Southampton. The other 10 of is are dotted about the rest of GB. We are all in the same pay banding same work. 

My salary goes further up here - that being said if I was expected to work from HQ I'd not have moved company for the salary I'm on now.

The other perk of being home based is i'm on the clock the second I leave the front door office based is over and above their usual commute. Also due to a poorly written expenses policy I can claim expenses when I'm a certain travel time from the office not from my place of work -although obviously this isn't done because it would be questioned and it's just not the right thing to do! 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Thats the attraction with the shoeboxes thrown up in the 00's in many of the big cities already, along with jobs. 

I’m thinking of a more well thought out future plan than that though - not throwing up shoe boxes but converting existing office/retail space no longer required into decent living spaces that could be truly affordable to buy not just rent. I know it’s all pie in the sky but it’s late, I’ve had a few bourbons as I’ve finally escaped to deepest, darkest Norfolk in the campervan now it’s allowed!

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2 minutes ago, onthebeach said:

I’m thinking of a more well thought out future plan than that though - not throwing up shoe boxes but converting existing office/retail space no longer required into decent living spaces that could be truly affordable to buy not just rent. I know it’s all pie in the sky but it’s late, I’ve had a few bourbons as I’ve finally escaped to deepest, darkest Norfolk in the campervan now it’s allowed!

I don't disagree.

The most successful developments tend to be the mixed use ones there still needs to be some employment and transition between daytime economy and night time economy that's the tricky part! 

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3 hours ago, sisco said:

100%.  We’ve been told we don’t actually have WFH contracts and that there are different Health & Safety issues, wage issues and insurance issues that would stop them doing so.

For instance where do people stand on those that have been commuting to London and earning London wages?! If they work from home should they receive a 10,000 wage cut or whatever the equivalent is in their local area?

If you get a London premium and no longer commute into or live in London then of course salaries are going to be altered.

 This is actually going to be one of the big shifts we see.  Very London centric companies have been forced to operate in different ways lately and are now seeing the light in why was they engaging someone on x amount when they could just simply engage someone further north on x amount - 30%...  and then to take a step further - why engage someone in expensive you UK when you can engage someone in Romanian at a fraction of the cost.

Its isn't a binary thing but a lot of companies are going to change.  WFH will be more common, engaging new employers will be more of a national shopping window.  The concept everyone and everything changes though was never going to be the case.  Some professionals work well remotely and others work less well.

What I will say though is the companies who operate bums on seats policy with a reluctant workforce who could be remote will lose their brightest and best to a rival who is offering it.  

In my industry office working is now all but dead - now and in the future.  90% of job adverts at worse say meeting in the office about 1 every two weeks other than remote.  Still get someone saying back to the office after the pandemic but I know they aren't getting the CVs 🙂 

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