When will this shit end?

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, DeanoL said:

 

Except AZ isn’t an MRNA vaccine and that’s the one with the blood clotting issue.

Its covid which has a blood clotting issue.

1 hour ago, DeanoL said:

Your risk of getting it is very high. Your risk of dying from it is very low. And the truth is we don’t actually know what other effects  asymptomatic infections could have. People with asymptomatic COVID could be dying of blood clots at the same rate as those taking the vaccine and we wouldn’t even know as people die from clots and we wouldn’t even know they had COVID. No research has really been done on asymptomatic cases as without mass testing they’re very hard to detect 

We are not getting to herd immunity with a vaccine that only drops the spread by 60%.

The measles vaccine is much better at that. It’s constantly been said the best case for COVID is for it to end up like the flu- how many people do you know that get through life and never get flu?

 

[eFestivals]

4 hours ago, gazzared said:

Yep it's madness...it's like ID cards ...it seems the only people opposed are the ones with something to hide

The ones with fear to spread control is gained by fear:(so these people have their own adjenrda at least as bad as anything they accuse the govt of ).

[eFestivals]

18 hours ago, km9 said:

None necessary 

There is for the grammar nazis.whove suggested I'm on crack and other things to avoid engaging with a discussion that's not gone to their own liking. It's childish.

[steviewevie]

8 hours ago, gazzared said:

Yep it's madness...it's like ID cards ...it seems the only people opposed are the ones with something to hide

it's more than an ID card though, it's a biometric ID card...with your health records on there that can be used by private businesses to decide whether to serve you or not. Most people allowed in, but not all.

[parsonjack]

Perhaps we should just end this shit now?

[steviewevie]

3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Its covid which has a blood clotting issue.

Quote

It does look like there could be a causal link between AZ and blood clots. Very rare still, but it is looking like it's there...more for youger people and females. 

[steviewevie]

Just now, parsonjack said:

Perhaps we should just end this shit now?

it's a never ending shit story

[Ozanne]

13 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

it's more than an ID card though, it's a biometric ID card...with your health records on there that can be used by private businesses to decide whether to serve you or not. Most people allowed in, but not all.

In all honesty I don’t know how to feel about ID cards, my phones tracks me wherever I go so that’s not an issue but I don’t know if this government having all that info is a wise idea. 

[st dan]

Being cynical - wonder if they were aware of the blood clotting issues with the AZ, but as it was all we really had available in stock, they wanted to make their way through the most at risk 1-9 groups before addressing it publicly. It just seems such a coincidence that this comes out at the exact time our supply issues are taking hold. 

With Moderna (and others) on the way, wouldn’t be surprised if the AZ is now put on the back shelf, and they make their way through the under 50s with alternative vaccines. AZ has now been tarnished so much, it could have a significant impact on take up numbers for the younger population.

Edited April 7, 2021 by st dan

[Zoo Music Girl]

18 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

It does look like there could be a causal link between AZ and blood clots. Very rare still, but it is looking like it's there...more for youger people and females. 

I asked this the other day and not sure if anyone replied (maybe because we don't know), but was wondering if any links had been made to the contraceptive pill? That demographic of younger female made me wonder. When I was on the pill years back they were always on at you to stop smoking due to the enhanced blood clot risk.

[steviewevie]

Brazil looking real bad...4000 deaths/day...

[zahidf]

9 minutes ago, st dan said:

Being cynical - wonder if they were aware of the blood clotting issues with the AZ, but as it was all we really had available in stock, they wanted to make their way through the most at risk 1-9 groups before addressing it publicly. It just seems such a coincidence that this comes out at the exact time our supply issues are taking hold. 

With Moderna (and others) on the way, wouldn’t be surprised if the AZ is now put on the back shelf, and they make their way through the under 50s with alternative vaccines. AZ has now been tarnished so much, it could have a significant impact on take up numbers for the younger population.

THe MHRA wouldnt risk their reputation for that. And neither would AZN and Oxford. 

[st dan]

Just now, zahidf said:

THe MHRA wouldnt risk their reputation for that. And neither would AZN and Oxford. 

Probably not no, but I mean maybe they were aware of the very very very small chances of clotting but chose not to address it earlier. 

[phimill]

9 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I asked this the other day and not sure if anyone replied (maybe because we don't know), but was wondering if any links had been made to the contraceptive pill? That demographic of younger female made me wonder. When I was on the pill years back they were always on at you to stop smoking due to the enhanced blood clot risk.

I've got a feeling that this is the case, some high risk "clotters" that are just about safe on the pill could have a more severe reaction, or speed up the clotting issue due to the OXAZ vaccine. Which also may happen naturally if they caught C-19, but due to the high levels on anti-bodies created via the vaccine the vaccine causes the more significant issue

 

@Toilet Duck- does that sound plausible at all?!

Edited April 7, 2021 by phimill

[zahidf]

3 minutes ago, st dan said:

Probably not no, but I mean maybe they were aware of the very very very small chances of clotting but chose not to address it earlier. 

But then if its very small, then they would have just mentioned it and said that the risks of Covid was much worse anyway

[Zoo Music Girl]

2 minutes ago, phimill said:

I've got a feeling that this is the case, some high risk "clotters" that are just about safe on the pill could have a more severe reaction, or speed up the clotting issue due to the OXAZ vaccine.

Yeah it's been in my head since I heard it was mainly young women. The problem I guess is that you're not likely to know you're at high risk ahead of having it.

[phimill]

Just now, Zoo Music Girl said:

Yeah it's been in my head since I heard it was mainly young women. The problem I guess is that you're not likely to know you're at high risk ahead of having it.

Exactly!

I did add an extra comment to my post which is just speculation

 "Which also may happen naturally if they caught C-19, but due to the high levels on anti-bodies created via the vaccine the vaccine causes the more significant issue" 

[steviewevie]

Maybe AZ is actually a contraceptive and we're all being sterilised!

[Zoo Music Girl]

1 minute ago, phimill said:

Exactly!

I did add an extra comment to my post which is just speculation

 "Which also may happen naturally if they caught C-19, but due to the high levels on anti-bodies created via the vaccine the vaccine causes the more significant issue" 

Yeah good point. 

I would be interested to see how many people are willing to take the pill despite increased risk of blood clots but not the vaccine. I suppose one has a clear benefit to your day to day life, though, while the other feels like a hypothetical.

[Zoo Music Girl]

I've taken it and wasn't worried (female, 38) but it's just responsible to investigate the issues isn't it? With Moderna coming in they could maybe switch vaccine use for certain demographics if needed. Surely trying to be as safe as possible is the best outcome.

[Simsy]

11 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Yeah good point. 

I would be interested to see how many people are willing to take the pill despite increased risk of blood clots but not the vaccine. I suppose one has a clear benefit to your day to day life, though, while the other feels like a hypothetical.

Yeah, if the choice is blood clot or baby I'd go blood clot every time! But when people keep telling you if you're young and healthy you've got nothing to worry about from covid, you only need the jab to protect others it's not quite so simple.

I'm not anti vax and will definitely get it when offered, but it would be good to know why these extremely rare blood clots seem to be more likely in certain groups, and is there anything to reduce that risk (come off the pill, take a different jab if you've got family history of blood clots etc).

[eFestivals]

52 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

It does look like there could be a causal link between AZ and blood clots. Very rare still, but it is looking like it's there...more for youger people and females. 

There's a link between covid and clotting.how often have you seen that discussed

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

9 hours ago, gazzared said:

Yep it's madness...it's like ID cards ...it seems the only people opposed are the ones with something to hide

I'm for ID cards and the unification of our plethora of identifiers into one place initially and then one unique ID number. 

What I'm against about 'Covid Status Certificate' is the use case.

You are going beyond ID cards where you would give over your card / number to a person in a official capacity e.g. police, council, NHS, DWP, HMRC, DVLA and it's storing more than a unique identifier. 

Factor in the fact it's all being done by stealth rather than via open, honest grown up debate about the positives and negatives of an ID card it's just happening.

The information Facebook et al have about you is optional, you don't have to sign up and by not doing anything your not having your freedoms restricted. But as I've said it's the use case and the method of adoption that makes me angry.

Edited April 7, 2021 by RobertProsineckisLighter

[st dan]

1 minute ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I've taken it and wasn't worried (female, 38) but it's just responsible to investigate the issues isn't it? With Moderna coming in they could maybe switch vaccine use for certain demographics if needed. Surely trying to be as safe as possible is the best outcome.

Yep definitely. It’s also their responsibility to raise any potential side effects, and then once the individual is aware of these then it is up to them to weigh up the risk vs reward. I do worry soon people will turn up to vaccination centres and start asking for ‘vaccine x’ rather than AZ, and the potential issues that may cause. 

[Ozanne]

4 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I've taken it and wasn't worried (female, 38) but it's just responsible to investigate the issues isn't it? With Moderna coming in they could maybe switch vaccine use for certain demographics if needed. Surely trying to be as safe as possible is the best outcome.

It definitely the best way forward, being as careful as possible. As that will only help confidence in the vaccine longer term.