Jump to content

When will this shit end?


Chrisp1986

Recommended Posts

16 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

even with completion of the vaccine programme about half the population will NOT be protected.

This lack of immunity for half the population stems from an estimate that 20% of adults won't take it, the vaccines won't work on between 10% and 20% of us, and the vaccines are not authorised for use on those under 18.

The vaccines won't work for 10-20% of us??? Peston getting numbers from nowhere.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

even with completion of the vaccine programme about half the population will NOT be protected.

This lack of immunity for half the population stems from an estimate that 20% of adults won't take it, the vaccines won't work on between 10% and 20% of us, and the vaccines are not authorised for use on those under 18.

Those who won't take it can take their chances, those it won't work on are a genuine concern and the under 18s are pretty well protected by their immune system - and I'd be surprised if the programme to vaccinate the under 18s hasn't already started by the time the last adult is jabbed.

But still, when you put it like that, it does make herd immunity seem awfully difficult to achieve. Must be scary for the immunocompromised.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, stuartbert two hats said:

Those who won't take it can take their chances, those it won't work on are a genuine concern and the under 18s are pretty well protected by their immune system - and I'd be surprised if the programme to vaccinate the under 18s hasn't already started by the time the last adult is jabbed.

But still, when you put it like that, it does make herd immunity seem awfully difficult to achieve. Must be scary for the immunocompromised.

Peston saying 50% of the population are in danger AFTER the vaccine programme is ridiculous though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

even with completion of the vaccine programme about half the population will NOT be protected.

This lack of immunity for half the population stems from an estimate that 20% of adults won't take it, the vaccines won't work on between 10% and 20% of us, and the vaccines are not authorised for use on those under 18.

Even running with the 2x20% figures those not protected is closer to 33% (my crude maths off top of my head) and that’s assuming fit young people are “not protected” and therefore at risk.
Very poor and lazy reporting 

Edited by March Hare
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, zahidf said:

The vaccines won't work for 10-20% of us??? Peston getting numbers from nowhere.

Think he’s getting himself confused about efficacy. The importance is that all will be protected from severe disease and death. 
 

Only those who refuse a vaccine will be at risk and 20% seems pretty high. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

even with completion of the vaccine programme about half the population will NOT be protected.

This lack of immunity for half the population stems from an estimate that 20% of adults won't take it, the vaccines won't work on between 10% and 20% of us, and the vaccines are not authorised for use on those under 18.

He's also given zero allocation to quite a large chunk of people who won't take the vaccine or are under 18 but have already had Covid and thus have some immunity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Those who won't take it can take their chances, those it won't work on are a genuine concern and the under 18s are pretty well protected by their immune system - and I'd be surprised if the programme to vaccinate the under 18s hasn't already started by the time the last adult is jabbed.

But still, when you put it like that, it does make herd immunity seem awfully difficult to achieve. Must be scary for the immunocompromised.

Yeah, agree it’s likely that use in under 18s will be forthcoming in the near future...so far, no reports of major problems in 12-18 year olds on the US trials for the mRNA vaccines and Oxford should have data on safety for 6+ by the time the new school year starts (maybe, cases are dwindling thankfully and I can’t remember where they are running the trial). How those with chronic inflammatory conditions etc who are taking immunosuppressive drugs will respond to the vaccine is currently unknown, whether they need to pause treatment is also unknown (if they do, get them on the 3 week Pfizer/Moderna regimen and back on treatment), so still things to figure out in real world use. I’d expect many people in these situations would have received a vaccine in Israel though, so again, they are our best source of information as to how things should pan out. 

Edited by Toilet Duck
Typo!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

Is it really that high that 20% won't take it? Im all for a vaccine passport if its that high. You're refusing the vaccine? Then you cant go to the pub/go holiday.  Where is all this hubris that people think they know more than experts because of a post on Facebook... Literally ignores all experts on the matter because it doesn't fit their own world view.

 

re: under 18- not an issue. They're not at risk at all

Interesting that the first condition on his list is,

"1) whether the roll out of the vaccine remains on target"

Which suggests to me they will bring back restrictions to "persuade" people to get the vaccine if the uptake starts to decline (and it will). I suspect uptake is actually less than they claim at the moment, they seem to have moved down the age groups pretty rapidly, in any event I don't see 20% refusal as particularly high, not everyone is as pro-vax as those on here. Once they get to the younger ones uptake will drop off as they are at little risk and there is little community incentive if they think the vunerable are vaccinated and protected.

The view that "vaccine refusers" should be punished by restricting their access to pubs etc. is quite popular on here, it's easy to call for discriminatory measures against a faceless group of people you violently disagree with but the reality is many of these people will be friends or family of you or your close contacts. The reality is this policy will impact everyone, even those who get the vaccine and are happy to get a passport. For example let's assume Glastonbury goes ahead next year with access to those with a vaccine passport only. Most people go in groups so lets say in a group of 6 one person isn't vaccinated and won't get one, that would change the dynamic of the group, what if it is your best mate who you normally hang around with? Are you happy to lose friends because you disagree with their views on this? I'm sure some of you would but even so it will have had an impact on you. This year is going to be very interesting, the pro-vax v anti-vax debate is going to get nasty, we already have a taste of it on here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’ve already had a discussion with a family member along these lines @gizmoman. We were talking about family holidays and they don’t fancy taking a vaccine that is so new. My response was we might end up doing the family holiday without them. I won’t compromise my lifestyle for someone who won’t take a vaccine.  As you say, not an easy conversation to have

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

Yeah, agree it’s likely that use in under 18s will be forthcoming in the near future...so far, no reports of major problems in 12-18 year olds on the US trials for the mRNA vaccines and Oxford should have data on safety for 6+ by the time the new school year starts (maybe, cases are dwindling thankfully and I can’t remember where they are running the trial). How those with chronic inflammatory conditions etc who are taking immunosuppressive drugs will respond to the vaccine is currently unknown, whether they need to pause treatment is also unknown (if they do, get them on the 3 week Pfizer/Moderna regimen and back on treatment), so still things to figure out in real world use. I’d expect many people in these situations would have received a vaccine in Israel though, so again, they are our best source of information as to how things should pan out. 

Do you think it is ethical to give kids a vaccine that is not fully licensed and is still effectively experimental? Particularly as they are at such a low risk from the disease, surely it would be better to wait until all the adults are done and assess the results, by then the virus may be much less prevalent and much less of a risk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, March Hare said:

I’ve already had a discussion with a family member along these lines @gizmoman. We were talking about family holidays and they don’t fancy taking a vaccine that is so new. My response was we might end up doing the family holiday without them. I won’t compromise my lifestyle for someone who won’t take a vaccine.  As you say, not an easy conversation to have

Totally agree!

I am going on the Holiday & Glastonbury...

They can stick to a life of stupid and exclusion...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

Do you think it is ethical to give kids a vaccine that is not fully licensed and is still effectively experimental? Particularly as they are at such a low risk from the disease, surely it would be better to wait until all the adults are done and assess the results, by then the virus may be much less prevalent and much less of a risk.

By the time kids are allowed it we will have safety data and millions upon millions having already taken it...

Mine will be having it when the time comes... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

Interesting that the first condition on his list is,

"1) whether the roll out of the vaccine remains on target"

Which suggests to me they will bring back restrictions to "persuade" people to get the vaccine if the uptake starts to decline (and it will). I suspect uptake is actually less than they claim at the moment, they seem to have moved down the age groups pretty rapidly, in any event I don't see 20% refusal as particularly high, not everyone is as pro-vax as those on here. Once they get to the younger ones uptake will drop off as they are at little risk and there is little community incentive if they think the vunerable are vaccinated and protected.

The view that "vaccine refusers" should be punished by restricting their access to pubs etc. is quite popular on here, it's easy to call for discriminatory measures against a faceless group of people you violently disagree with but the reality is many of these people will be friends or family of you or your close contacts. The reality is this policy will impact everyone, even those who get the vaccine and are happy to get a passport. For example let's assume Glastonbury goes ahead next year with access to those with a vaccine passport only. Most people go in groups so lets say in a group of 6 one person isn't vaccinated and won't get one, that would change the dynamic of the group, what if it is your best mate who you normally hang around with? Are you happy to lose friends because you disagree with their views on this? I'm sure some of you would but even so it will have had an impact on you. This year is going to be very interesting, the pro-vax v anti-vax debate is going to get nasty, we already have a taste of it on here.

Then my best mate is probably a knobhead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

Do you think it is ethical to give kids a vaccine that is not fully licensed and is still effectively experimental? Particularly as they are at such a low risk from the disease, surely it would be better to wait until all the adults are done and assess the results, by then the virus may be much less prevalent and much less of a risk.

I think only vulnerable children will be given the jab tbh unless the data is amazing in stopping the spread/wider risk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, august1 said:

I think only vulnerable children will be given the jab tbh unless the data is amazing in stopping the spread/wider risk.

No chance of this... 

Will be all children as soon as the safety data is in...  We give the kids the flu vaccine for a reason...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Have you seen the Pfizer data from Israel today? It is amazing.

Do they have data from kids?

11 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

No chance of this... 

Will be all children as soon as the safety data is in...  We give the kids the flu vaccine for a reason...

in terms of 'emergency use' I think it will be the vulnerable. Maybe a lot later down the line it might be rolled out to high school age, hopefully it wont be needed then.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...