When will this shit end?

[crazyfool1]

whats the latest on Europe numbers by the way ..... ive lost track .... I know Germany had a significant death toll last time I looked ...

[Freddyflintstonree]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I do believe that another government could've handled this better to enable festivals this year. The mistakes have been ones nearly entirely of their own making and even date back before the start of the pandemic.

The government had plenty of the warnings in the build up with China and Italy yet still didn’t act. They had their own Operation Cygnus from a couple of years before which highlighted the many issues a respiratory virus would bring and still didn’t act. If they had have put measures in place as per the report instead of continue to cut public services we would've been on a good footing from the start.

In the summer PHE colleagues wrote to the PM to request the government use the summer lull to prepare for the winter. The government instead of doing that played around with breaking international law and the PM went on holiday again. Cases started to rise as predicted in the Autumn which caused SAGE and the LOTO to call for a short lockdown, the government still didn’t act. They brought in a tier system which didn’t work and which was highlighted to them before the fact, they then brought in a lockdown weeks later on Halloween which wasn’t strong enough and long enough. Calls for the government to cancel Christmas from medical experts went out and still the government didn’t act, instead bringing in a new tiering system which has seen nearly all regions be moved to the top tier. As a result we have seen record level cases on a daily basis, hospitals filling up and Drs coming out saying the NHS is at breaking point calling for a national lockdown along with other experts. Schools were safe then 24 hours later were shut as well.

We’ve seen this too many times over the last 10 months and yes whilst plenty of other countries are wrestling with these dilemmas the UK government have repeatedly acted too slowly and too poorly. We need a government that when they get this advise from their advisors and experts warning them of a very really incoming issue to listen and act, quickly and decisively. I believe that nearly anything other government would have done those things and as such we would be in a better position than we are now.

Well put, and completely agree...though my question is still whether the correct actions pointed out above would have been enough to save the festival this year. 

Of course it's an open question, I don't really expect a definitive yes or no. I guess you answered in your first sentence! 

[crazyfool1]

Just now, Freddyflintstonree said:

Well put, and completely agree...though my question is still whether the correct actions pointed out above would have been enough to save the festival this year. 

Of course it's an open question, I don't really expect a definitive yes or no. I guess you answered in your first sentence! 

Yes 

[Ozanne]

2 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

whats the latest on Europe numbers by the way ..... ive lost track .... I know Germany had a significant death toll last time I looked ...

Here's the latest from Worldometers:

[crazyfool1]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

Here's the latest from Worldometers:

were Germany not over 1000 deaths per day not long ago ? so whatever they did there it seems to have made a massive difference ? 

[Ozanne]

2 minutes ago, Freddyflintstonree said:

Well put, and completely agree...though my question is still whether the correct actions pointed out above would have been enough to save the festival this year. 

Of course it's an open question, I don't really expect a definitive yes or no. I guess you answered in your first sentence! 

Ha yeah I do think that if those actions had been different then the festival would go ahead. Ignoring the summer for a bit if we had a government that had stamped down on the virus hard in late Autumn and had a ban on household mixing at Christmas we potentially would've been in a much better situation now so as such the festival build starting in a month or so would've been more likely to have happened. 

[gooner1990]

Its out of control here isn't it? 😞

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, gooner1990 said:

Its out of control here isn't it? 😞

 

[Freddyflintstonree]

23 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Ha yeah I do think that if those actions had been different then the festival would go ahead. Ignoring the summer for a bit if we had a government that had stamped down on the virus hard in late Autumn and had a ban on household mixing at Christmas we potentially would've been in a much better situation now so as such the festival build starting in a month or so would've been more likely to have happened. 

OK fair enough, that's interesting. If the gov had played all its cards right (ha) then what impact do you think covid would have had on the festival with regards to international acts as well as covid safety? (masks etc.) do you think it could have been a non issue entirely? 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

1 hour ago, Freddyflintstonree said:

Do we really believe that any government in the UK could have controlled Covid so dramatically differently so as to have allowed for a Glastonbury to go ahead this year? 

I will be the first to say Boris has been an utter, utter shambles, and that it could have been handled 100+ times better than it has been, but based on the very nature of Covid and how it's developed across the world.. I think I'd argue Glastonbury was never going to be possible this year. 

I'd love to have a genuine discussion about this if there really is a strong feeling it could have with a better government. (Just to reiterate, Boris and the government are a steaming turd, that's not my question). 

I would tend to agree with you. 

[Ozanne]

11 minutes ago, Freddyflintstonree said:

OK fair enough, that's interesting. If the gov had played all its cards right (ha) then what impact do you think covid would have had on the festival with regards to international acts as well as covid safety? (masks etc.) do you think it could have been a non issue entirely? 

I think that by the summer as we are now things will be markedly better with fairly loss restrictions in place through the summer so with testing I could see international acts coming over to play. International sports still goes ahead so I think we could musicians travelling round. The difference being that because the measures taken by the government weren't good enough it means that the conditions aren't right for the festival work to be started when it normally would with case numbers and an over-stretched NHS. 

[blutarsky]

Thailand. Same population as UK. Island. Important trading nation very closely located to some of the continent’s biggest manufacturers and exporters. Closer to original outbreak than UK. 

Adopted a Zero COVID approach. Controlled its borders. Implemented effective track, trace and contain. 

Total COVID deaths since beginning of pandemic: 71 

That could have been the UK. We had enough of a warning to prepare even better than the Thais. We didn’t. 

So next time someone says “Boris (like he’s their fucking mate) is doing the best he can, and I don’t think anyone would have done any better”, tell them there are 197 countries in the word and currently the leadership of 196 of them are doing a better job than our corrupt stinking bunch of c**ts. 

And they’re trying to weasel away from the blame and shift it to “rule breakers” when their guidance throughout has been in-comprehensive, flawed and flouted without consequence by the powerful. 

@Copperface
@Freddyflintstonree

[gizmoman]

3 hours ago, Copperface said:

Incidentally, I had a flu jab recently and the nurse had to ask whether I gave consent to be administered an unlicenced flu vaccine. It turns out they have run out of normal flu vaccine, whatever that is, and the MHRA have done an emergency authorisation to use a US flu jab which is not UK licenced. I still had it though. Anyone else had the same?

It's not that they have run out, this was approved back in October,

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/flublok-vaccine-given-authorisation-for-temporary-supply-in-the-uk-to-meet-public-health-need

It's also a relatively new technology -Recombinant DNA rather than the usual inactived flu version.

https://www.sanofiflu.com/flublok-quadrivalent-influenza-vaccine.html

Why they felt the need to use a new unlicensed vaccine is open to question.

[Copperface]

2 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

 

Why they felt the need to use a new unlicensed vaccine is open to question.

She said it was all they had. Yep, Flublok is the one.

Edited January 23, 2021 by Copperface

[Copperface]

20 minutes ago, blutarsky said:

Thailand. Same population as UK. Island. Important trading nation very closely located to some of the continent’s biggest manufacturers and exporters. Closer to original outbreak than UK. 

Adopted a Zero COVID approach. Controlled its borders. Implemented effective track, trace and contain. 

Total COVID deaths since beginning of pandemic: 71 

That could have been the UK. We had enough of a warning to prepare even better than the Thais. We didn’t. 

So next time someone says “Boris (like he’s their fucking mate) is doing the best he can, and I don’t think anyone would have done any better”, tell them there are 197 countries in the word and currently the leadership of 196 of them are doing a better job than our corrupt stinking bunch of c**ts. 

And they’re trying to weasel away from the blame and shift it to “rule breakers” when their guidance throughout has been in-comprehensive, flawed and flouted without consequence by the powerful. 

@Copperface
@Freddyflintstonree

I'm certainly not absolving them of anything. The Thai example is valid but the closest comparators in general terms are our European neighbours.

It's been pretty crap there.

But more important is that it has been way more crap here in the UK. In fact we have broken the crap measuring scale. the Thais followed the scientific advice and took quick action. Our lot were too concerned about the economic impact and didn't fully appreciate it. I think the Thais were all too aware of pandemics after bird flu etc and were far more alert to the potential. 

I don't think any of the current candidates we had for government would have been able to do a Thailand but it might have been just a bit 'less bad'. Was always difficult to see something like Glastonbury being a goer whoever we had in charge.

Edited January 23, 2021 by Copperface

[mandolin]

4 hours ago, Copperface said:

Incidentally, I had a flu jab recently and the nurse had to ask whether I gave consent to be administered an unlicenced flu vaccine. It turns out they have run out of normal flu vaccine, whatever that is, and the MHRA have done an emergency authorisation to use a US flu jab which is not UK licenced. I still had it though. Anyone else had the same?

Yeah, I had it a couple of weeks ago.  Was a bit freaked out by the “if you get any side effect other than a sore arm, we really need to know about it” part of the spiel but got nothing other than a pretty sore arm and that only lasted a couple of hours. 

[Lycra]

Those on the frontline have been elevated, but we're not saints. Just normal people doing a job. And we do get bad thoughts....

"I can't save you so will you hurry up and die so I can get on with saving someone who may live"

"Wonder how many are still alive when I go in tomorrow"

When I realise the thoughts running through my head I don't feel human anymore.

Mrs L

 

[Suprefan]

 

[Ozanne]

 

 

[Fuzzy Afro]

Just now, Ozanne said:

 

 

Shapps has such a face like a slapped arse. Ugliest member of government? 

[xxialac]

7 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

 

 

That is an absolute disgrace. 

A government department breaking the rules and spreading covid into the community.

Beyond belief.

 

[dingbat2]

8 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Shapps has such a face like a slapped arse. Ugliest member of government? 

What he lacks in looks he more than makes up for in incompetence

 

[Ozanne]

3 minutes ago, xxialac said:

That is an absolute disgrace. 

A government department breaking the rules and spreading covid into the community.

Beyond belief.

 

He has to go for this, he won't of course.

[zahidf]

 

[Toilet Duck]

3 hours ago, gizmoman said:

It's not that they have run out, this was approved back in October,

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/flublok-vaccine-given-authorisation-for-temporary-supply-in-the-uk-to-meet-public-health-need

It's also a relatively new technology -Recombinant DNA rather than the usual inactived flu version.

https://www.sanofiflu.com/flublok-quadrivalent-influenza-vaccine.html

Why they felt the need to use a new unlicensed vaccine is open to question.

It’s was only unlicensed in the EU at the time though, it’s been approved by the FDA for use in the US for a few years (so it’s not really a new vaccine). The EMA actually issued a full market authorisation (not a conditional one) for it a few weeks after the MHRA issued the temporary  authorisation...if you were still in the EU, it wouldn’t be “unlicensed”. I had the same shot myself this year, no issues. It was partly developed for people with egg allergies as previous non-recombinant versions of the flu shot used eggs to grow virus which was then chemically inactivated. Presumably, the temporary authorisation given back in October by the MHRA was in anticipation of shortages of other flu shots. It’s more or less the same as one of the vaccines Sanofi were going to re-tool for COVID (they also have an mRNA vaccine heading into trials now). 

Edited January 24, 2021 by Toilet Duck
Clarification!