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When will this shit end?


Chrisp1986

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@Toilet Duckwhat makes J&J able to be a one dose vaccine? Is that one dose stronger or different to how one dose of the Oxford one would be?

Or is it just a case of trying something a bit different and determining it is is a reasonable amount effective but not as effective as a two dose would be.

Basically what I'm saying is surely two doses is always stronger protection so why did they go down the one dose route?

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5 minutes ago, hodgey123 said:

Saw a tweet over the weekend (can't find it now) saying how it is absolutely mental how in the UK everyone used to be expected to go to work with a nasty cold or cough, and then it would be become a rolling joke/'office banter' (sure you all know the type) and perfectly normal how the person had then passed it on and infected their colleagues. So true and hopefully a massive thing of the past now!

Yep its ridiculous, we get 2 sick days a year before there's an informal meeting. But everytime someone has a cold or flu they pass it around the staff, so everyone is sick but no one is staying home, so about a week in everyone has a fucking cold and it is miserable to be at work (even more so)

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4 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

I don’t think Fauci is necessarily privy to any data that’s not in the public domain regarding J&J (not even J&J themselves will be until they unblind) but I guess they’re pretty confident given the immune response generated in the earlier phases and the fact that the technology is very similar (identical?) to the Oxford/AZ effort. Am I right @Toilet Duck?

More or less! The immune responses seen in their phase 1/2 data that they recently published looked pretty impressive. Their pre-clinical data was also very impressive. I'd expect the single shot to give at least as good as OX/AZ in terms of protection from severe disease based on what they have released so far (may well need a top up later on). The regulators are looking at data on a rolling basis, but that's mainly any safety data they have, pre-clinical data, any results they have from their phase 1/2 and also the formulation and manufacturing QC data (all of which in addition to the phase 3 efficacy and safety data forms part of their final decision). So until they unblind, they don't know what level of protection it provides, but so far, the signs are good. 

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Just now, ace56blaa said:

Yep its ridiculous, we get 2 sick days a year before there's an informal meeting. But everytime someone has a cold or flu they pass it around the staff, so everyone is sick but no one is staying home, so about a week in everyone has a fucking cold and it is miserable to be at work (even more so)

If someone had the flu I have no idea how they could even make it to work. Proper flu= bed bound.

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2 hours ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

To be fair it was sold to them as a “quarantine bubble” where the players all isolate together at a hotel for two weeks but they can practice together within the bubble - just no leaving the bubble or interacting with the bubble. 
 

They’ve turned up and many of them have been confined to their bedrooms. They were not told this was a possibility and many are saying they wouldn’t have travelled knowing this. 

Seems that the Victoria premier does not agree about that

 

https://news.sky.com/story/australian-open-stars-will-not-be-given-special-treatment-as-72-now-in-quarantine-12191506

 

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9 minutes ago, hodgey123 said:

Saw a tweet over the weekend (can't find it now) saying how it is absolutely mental how in the UK everyone used to be expected to go to work with a nasty cold or cough, and then it would be become a rolling joke/'office banter' (sure you all know the type) and perfectly normal how the person had then passed it on and infected their colleagues. So true and hopefully a massive thing of the past now!

Yep, this is so evident where I work and has been in each different office, and sure it's the same all over the place.

You get the long-term staff who have worked in the same office for 30 years bragging about how they "haven't had a day off sick" in 5/10/15 years (delete as applicable) but who will always say "Ohh, you really shouldn't be in here when you're that ill!" - and then when someone takes a day off, they'll be making out they're just skiving, which discourages people from taking time off.

It's so unhealthy and unhelpful for everyone.

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Just now, fraybentos1 said:

If someone had the flu I have no idea how they could even make it to work. Proper flu= bed bound.

You kidding? I had February last year, just before covid, blocked eyes, sore throat, every muscle ached, could barely speak without coughing. My boss still insisted I come in and "see how i get on", i just had to mainline tea and meds and deal with it, because companies lik that don't wanna hire extra staff just in case someone is sick

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1 minute ago, fraybentos1 said:

If someone had the flu I have no idea how they could even make it to work. Proper flu= bed bound.

Yup.  Massive over-use of 'flu in everyday language. I think it's because all yer remedies like Lemsip and the like are for "cold and flu" with a single list of symptoms, so it's gradually just become lumped together.

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

Probably but maybe some people will end up collecting them. 

Gotta not catch 'em all.

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Just now, ace56blaa said:

You kidding? I had February last year, just before covid, blocked eyes, sore throat, every muscle ached, could barely speak without coughing. My boss still insisted I come in and "see how i get on", i just had to mainline tea and meds and deal with it, because companies lik that don't wanna hire extra staff just in case someone is sick

I think that's the point. You should have been bed bound, but were forced into work by a shitty boss.

It's more aimed at those who come out with "oh I've got the 'flu" when they've actually got a bit of a cold.

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1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

but...isn't this was WHO was warning about...vaccine nationalism etc.

It was, we’ll end up with loads because we can afford to buy them yet other poorer countries might struggle. I’m sure the vaccine watchers will be very worried that the supply won’t be spread out.

1 minute ago, ace56blaa said:

You kidding? I had February last year, just before covid, blocked eyes, sore throat, every muscle ached, could barely speak without coughing. My boss still insisted I come in and "see how i get on", i just had to mainline tea and meds and deal with it, because companies lik that don't wanna hire extra staff just in case someone is sick

My workplace was the same, we went in with colds and ended up infecting a lot of the office floor. Now we’ll just be working at home so it won’t be an issue. I really hope that changes in our society when the pandemic is over. Although I doubt it as we still have offices open with people in them now. 

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1 minute ago, ace56blaa said:

You kidding? I had February last year, just before covid, blocked eyes, sore throat, every muscle ached, could barely speak without coughing. My boss still insisted I come in and "see how i get on", i just had to mainline tea and meds and deal with it, because companies lik that don't wanna hire extra staff just in case someone is sick

Nope, not kidding at all. People tend to throw out the word flu when what they have isn't flu.

I've only had flu once a few years ago and as I say I was bed bound and physically couldn't have gone to any work even if I had wanted to.

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1 minute ago, fraybentos1 said:

@Toilet Duckwhat makes J&J able to be a one dose vaccine? Is that one dose stronger or different to how one dose of the Oxford one would be?

Or is it just a case of trying something a bit different and determining it is is a reasonable amount effective but not as effective as a two dose would be.

Basically what I'm saying is surely two doses is always stronger protection so why did they go down the one dose route?

They had a look in their phase 1/2 at low dose, high dose and then combinations of those with placebo for 1st and second doses. The immune repose seen basically had a dose dependent correlation (low dose/placebo was the lowest, high dose/high dose was the best). But high dose/placebo in under 55s was still pretty strong. It was a complicated trial (phase 1/2 often are as they are trying to work out the best way to administer the vaccine), but coupled with their pre-clinical data, it seems they believe that (at least in younger people), one dose gives enough protection. That could be topped up next year (or in 6 months) and the boost at a later date could firm up that immunological memory. Two doses isn't always stronger, there's many vaccines that work perfectly with a single dose but need to be renewed after a few years, others need the booster shot (others produce a really stable immune response that essentially lasts a lifetime). The intranasal ones that are being trialled at the moment could really make a big different as they look like providing better protection from infection via the nose, and that's exactly the kind of thing we need to limit infections. 

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13 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

It's 30 million 

Not sure whether the UK order is constructed in the same way as the EU one for the J&J vaccine, but we have 400m "courses" ordered (so if it's a 1 shot, we get 400m doses, if its a 2 shot we get 800m, if it's some combination of the two depending on how it works in different cohorts, then its something in between). 

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2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

but...isn't this was WHO was warning about...vaccine nationalism etc.

It's a fine, and at times damn near invisible line.

There's a strong case to be made that countries buying themselves a spot at the front of the queue has allowed manufacturers to invest in capacity that will have increased overall production massively - the Warp Speed programme in the US, and the way that the UK and the EU have directly funded extra manufacturing capacity for example.

The UK deal for Novavax for example involves the vaccine being manufactured under contract at Fujifilm Diosynth in Billingham - the deal gives the UK order first priority for any doses produced at the plant and then the rest can go overseas - but without the deal then it's quite possible there'd be no doses produced.

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5 minutes ago, Quark said:

I think that's the point. You should have been bed bound, but were forced into work by a shitty boss.

It's more aimed at those who come out with "oh I've got the 'flu" when they've actually got a bit of a cold.

We still have offices open now and bosses are demanding some workers go in so I don’t know if much will change. People will be quick to forget.

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1 minute ago, Quark said:

I think that's the point. You should have been bed bound, but were forced into work by a shitty boss.

It's more aimed at those who come out with "oh I've got the 'flu" when they've actually got a bit of a cold.

Yeah exactly, that's why we are saying we should have a better look at the way companies treat illnesses, Bosses always assume you're skiving like others have said, but even if you have the cold, you shouldn't be infecting you coworkers and customers with it, because a mild cold for you may not be as mild to someone you pass it too. Even a cold is a fucking nightmare for me, i get like a day of intense symptoms and then it mostly passes normally, whereas someone else might have mild symptoms for a week

 

Just now, fraybentos1 said:

Nope, not kidding at all. People tend to throw out the word flu when what they have isn't flu.

I've only had flu once a few years ago and as I say I was bed bound and physically couldn't have gone to any work even if I had wanted to.

Yeah people tend to use "manflu" or other such phrases. But don't assume that a flu is going to be the same for everyone, also a cold might be "just a cold" to you, but a whole ordeal to an older coworker etc. Which is why if you have a cold you should mask up if you're gonna come in. 

I wonder how many people spread covid back in february/march cause they thought they just had a cold etc

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Just now, ace56blaa said:

Yeah exactly, that's why we are saying we should have a better look at the way companies treat illnesses, Bosses always assume you're skiving like others have said, but even if you have the cold, you shouldn't be infecting you coworkers and customers with it, because a mild cold for you may not be as mild to someone you pass it too. Even a cold is a fucking nightmare for me, i get like a day of intense symptoms and then it mostly passes normally, whereas someone else might have mild symptoms for a week

 

That sounds proper shit. 

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2 minutes ago, incident said:

It's a fine, and at times damn near invisible line.

There's a strong case to be made that countries buying themselves a spot at the front of the queue has allowed manufacturers to invest in capacity that will have increased overall production massively - the Warp Speed programme in the US, and the way that the UK and the EU have directly funded extra manufacturing capacity for example.

The UK deal for Novavax for example involves the vaccine being manufactured under contract at Fujifilm Diosynth in Billingham - the deal gives the UK order first priority for any doses produced at the plant and then the rest can go overseas - but without the deal then it's quite possible there'd be no doses produced.

sure....and I appreciate that...without all the investment we just simply wouldn't have had the vaccines as quickly as we did...but surely there comes a point where we have enough to cover our population and vaccines should be directed to poorer parts of the world. Global Britain and all that.

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2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

sure....and I appreciate that...without all the investment we just simply wouldn't have had the vaccines as quickly as we did...but surely there comes a point where we have enough to cover our population and vaccines should be directed to poorer parts of the world. Global Britain and all that.

Yeah of course we should but we are in the position where the government will be assessed on the vaccination program so they have to make sure we have as much we can.  
 

Remember this government also cut the international aid budget too. 

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