When will this shit end?

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

Who else thinks the anti lockdown protesters will transition into anti-vax protesters? 
 

It all seems to be the same crowd who are serial protesters. 

I'm sure some will...but not as many.

[Copperface]

Just now, steviewevie said:

I'm sure some will...but not as many.

If you made a Venn diagram of the anti vaxxers, the anti lockdown crowd, and the lowest common denominator Brexity crowd, you would simply have a circle.

[zahidf]

10 minutes ago, Copperface said:

Pt 1. To some extent yes, but the general and most important bits have been followed, even if somewhat occasionally delayed.

Pt 2. Agree that once they feel the NHS can cope with any surges there will be a graded relaxation. You've said 'restrictions come to an end'. All of them? Some of them? Which ones? That's a very woolly prediction. There is also much caution about when this point might be reached. Is it when the so called first phase of 25 million odd people has been done? Or when we reach the scientists figure of around 60-70% to feel we have a handle on the spread. 

Pt 3. Generally agree, but you can still open the country and tourism/hospitality up and allow people to mix far more freely on an individual basis. 99% of the population will be quite happy with this. If that is the case then the politicos will take that. Mass gatherings a step too far. It'll be very easy to say 'look, we've relaxed most restrictions, you can go round your mates for a BBQ, you can go to pubs, you can go on holiday, but bear with us , we haven't yet got to the point where we can let hundreds of thousands of people rock up and go feral in close proximity for a week at a time.'  Most people, maybe not on a festival forum, but outside the bubble, will accept that.

Plenty of spurious and misunderstood figures are being bandied around and seems that there is a wilful, but maybe totally understandable, reluctance to accept what is being reported widely. 

If you're letting 100 people cram in a pub for a pint, that's as dangerous as allowing an open air festival. 

If they are having full capacity football matches and Wimbledon, festivals should be ok. 

[zahidf]

Some good news

 

[Copperface]

9 minutes ago, zahidf said:

If you're letting 100 people cram in a pub for a pint, that's as dangerous as allowing an open air festival. 

If they are having full capacity football matches and Wimbledon, festivals should be ok. 

You said exactly this earlier on in the year, stating that Glastonbury would be fine, and EoTR would take place if football was on. Neither happened. And football was on. 

Haven't seen anyone anywhere yet confirm that they will be putting on a capacity Wimbledon, or that Euro 2020 will be having capacity crowds. All they they say is that they are planning for a range of eventualities up to and including capacity crowds. The Olympics are preparing for a restricted event, in common with many others. All the festivals coming out with potential lineups and encouraging messages are nothing but that. Many seem to ignore the smaller print (Roskilde for example) stating that they haven't got a clue if it will go ahead, and if it does, in what format. Simply to publish a lineup is taken by many, and trumpeted as 'It's on!' And pubs etc will still be open, but like most places be subjects to restrictions, however relaxed.

 

[zahidf]

7 minutes ago, Copperface said:

You said exactly this earlier on in the year, stating that Glastonbury would be fine, and EoTR would take place if football was on. Neither happened. And football was on. 

Haven't seen anyone anywhere yet confirm that they will be putting on a capacity Wimbledon, or that Euro 2020 will be having capacity crowds. All they they say is that they are planning for a range of eventualities up to and including capacity crowds. The Olympics are preparing for a restricted event, in common with many others. All the festivals coming out with potential lineups and encouraging messages are nothing but that. Many seem to ignore the smaller print (Roskilde for example) stating that they haven't got a clue if it will go ahead, and if it does, in what format. Simply to publish a lineup is taken by many, and trumpeted as 'It's on!' And pubs etc will still be open, but like most places be subjects to restrictions, however relaxed.

 

Unless they are going to continue furlough and financial help, they won't be putting restrictions on pubs and other places. Relaxed restrictions are still restrictions! Pubs on the whole won't be able to open with capacity limits long term.

Summer 2021 could be like this summer of course. I'm just saying IMO this govt especially (though not limited to this govt) will end social distancing first ahead of other measures.

[efcfanwirral]

I'm 95% certain that the festival won't be happening. As people have said, festivals don't matter to the majority of people (and actually many would love to see lefty snowflake unsanitary events disappear for good - the same types who laugh at remainers worrying about the effects of Brexit). 

I think 2022 for any festivals that don't have those socially distanced platforms 

[Copperface]

7 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Unless they are going to continue furlough and financial help, they won't be putting restrictions on pubs and other places. Relaxed restrictions are still restrictions! Pubs on the whole won't be able to open with capacity limits long term.

Summer 2021 could be like this summer of course. I'm just saying IMO this govt especially (though not limited to this govt) will end social distancing first ahead of other measures.

Even the Government aren't saying that. In fact, completely the opposite. Johnson has promised an end to social distancing by October 2021.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/coronavirus-boris-johnson-social-distancing_uk_5f7c5864c5b6e5aba0d00a73?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAF68Dv3htdZ2Z2N868oPo7YrKAs0LKBEChW0PWbERQU1-7xC-7FNuQF9Pl8IrJ82bGiFn2W-LiYD-qYstR8ZMzgWtJwxBZ-tUCu2BTaeAfFNNUZRo3OyPu_s05wpcyx-QvOU2sEk7V33wQSmMvvRUQXu7EtykkszNrXzgyoH4rZ7

[jparx]

Christ this thread is becoming a fucking downer. I was really enjoying all the good news and optimistic discussion here over the last month, but might have to check out for the time being.

Yeah of course it might not happen, but I’m going to enjoy this little period of good news in a shite filled year and not focus on the negatives. Catch y’all in the acts touring thread 🤙

[Copperface]

5 minutes ago, jparx said:

Christ this thread is becoming a fucking downer. I was really enjoying all the good news and optimistic discussion here over the last month, but might have to check out for the time being.

Yeah of course it might not happen, but I’m going to enjoy this little period of good news in a shite filled year and not focus on the negatives. Catch y’all in the acts touring thread 🤙

That's why there is a Good News Thread. 

Don't visit that one much myself 😃

[Crazyfool01]

4 minutes ago, jparx said:

Christ this thread is becoming a fucking downer. I was really enjoying all the good news and optimistic discussion here over the last month, but might have to check out for the time being.

Yeah of course it might not happen, but I’m going to enjoy this little period of good news in a shite filled year and not focus on the negatives. Catch y’all in the acts touring thread 🤙

There’s still many people holding out for the positives in here ... the steps that have happened in 8 months have been nothing short of extraordinary... and we have 200 more days to go ... still all to play for ... 

[zahidf]

10 minutes ago, Copperface said:

Even the Government aren't saying that. In fact, completely the opposite. Johnson has promised an end to social distancing by October 2021.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/coronavirus-boris-johnson-social-distancing_uk_5f7c5864c5b6e5aba0d00a73?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAF68Dv3htdZ2Z2N868oPo7YrKAs0LKBEChW0PWbERQU1-7xC-7FNuQF9Pl8IrJ82bGiFn2W-LiYD-qYstR8ZMzgWtJwxBZ-tUCu2BTaeAfFNNUZRo3OyPu_s05wpcyx-QvOU2sEk7V33wQSmMvvRUQXu7EtykkszNrXzgyoH4rZ7

Now who's being disingenuous? That's from an article 2 months ago before the vaccines were shown to work.

[zahidf]

9 minutes ago, jparx said:

Christ this thread is becoming a fucking downer. I was really enjoying all the good news and optimistic discussion here over the last month, but might have to check out for the time being.

Yeah of course it might not happen, but I’m going to enjoy this little period of good news in a shite filled year and not focus on the negatives. Catch y’all in the acts touring thread 🤙

No one really knows. I'm thinking it will happen and am looking on the more positive side. I'm not saying its 100% going to happen though!

[jparx]

3 minutes ago, zahidf said:

No one really knows. I'm thinking it will happen and am looking on the more positive side. I'm not saying its 100% going to happen though!

It’s the only way to look at it right now tbh. It’s going to be a miserable slog of a winter if you spend your time looking at the negatives the whole time. If it doesn’t happen, it doesn’t happen, but I’d rather hold on to the hope we have now, get excited about the festival and gig announcements and at least pretend there’s something took forward to! 

[Ozanne]

I just wanna say there’s nothing wrong with looking on the negative side, or the less positive side. If that’s how you need to view things at the moment go ahead, there’s nothing wrong with that. Just because someone isn’t viewing something as completely positive doesn’t mean their view is invalid.

[jparx]

5 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I just wanna say there’s nothing wrong with looking on the negative side, or the less positive side. If that’s how you need to view things at the moment go ahead, there’s nothing wrong with that. Just because someone isn’t viewing something as completely positive doesn’t mean their view is invalid.

Yep totally agree. Some very valid points being made here. I’d just rather not engage and enjoy the positivity elsewhere 🤙🤙

[Ozanne]

3 minutes ago, jparx said:

Yep totally agree. Some very valid points being made here. I’d just rather not engage and enjoy the positivity elsewhere 🤙🤙

Fair play, I hope you come back as you are a good poster. 

[jannybruck]

I understand why it's so easy to be negative - it's comforting, on some level, to not have to be disappointed, and it's a nice feeling to be ultimately proven right.

But we're literally deploying a vaccine next week and there's now news that GPs will be getting other people done before Christmas when the Oxford one gets approved. Music festivals aren't until the summer. Yes, there's production builds and all sorts of logistics to take into consideration, but as we've already experienced this year - in the 'virus timeline', six months is a long fucking time. Over the next few months - just like the past few months! - there's inevitably going to be improvements in testing deployment, in efficiency, in other technology, in other solutions. I'm super hopeful.

Also, on a very base level, mass summer events are far too important to multiple different economic ecosystems for them to not happen in nearly-back-to-normal form this year. The government are making all the right noises that they want them to happen properly, and that's half the battle.

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, Copperface said:

You've said 'restrictions come to an end'. All of them? Some of them? Which ones? That's a very woolly prediction.

Essentially yes, all of them (tho they'd keep ones that don't have economic impact - masks, handwashing).

It might turn out to be a wrong prediction, but it's firmly based within how the govt has been operating to date - where they've been accepting of the virus circulating but have acted to protect health services from overload.

1 hour ago, Copperface said:

There is also much caution about when this point might be reached. Is it when the so called first phase of 25 million odd people has been done? Or when we reach the scientists figure of around 60-70% to feel we have a handle on the spread.

when that time is should be obvious from the data. When it's clear that there's no longer going to be that overwhelming demand on health services.

So, for example, the data might show infection rates rising steeply - more than they've done so far - but demand on health services is decreasing. That should be what happens as the vaccine gets rolled out to the oldies while measures are too slack to stop the infection increasing in normal society (so tier 2 or lower).

1 hour ago, Copperface said:

Pt 3. Generally agree, but you can still open the country and tourism/hospitality up and allow people to mix far more freely on an individual basis. 99% of the population will be quite happy with this. If that is the case then the politicos will take that. Mass gatherings a step too far. It'll be very easy to say 'look, we've relaxed most restrictions, you can go round your mates for a BBQ, you can go to pubs, you can go on holiday, but bear with us , we haven't yet got to the point where we can let hundreds of thousands of people rock up and go feral in close proximity for a week at a time.'  Most people, maybe not on a festival forum, but outside the bubble, will accept that.

I agree, they could go with something like that. But I don't think they will.

They'd need to have a reason for doing it, and when covid is no longer a health crisis they don't have any reason for doing it.(at least, not with reasoning they've used to date).

Covid ceases to be a heath crisis when health services are able to cope, which is dependant on hospital admissions from covid.

 

1 hour ago, Copperface said:

Plenty of spurious and misunderstood figures are being bandied around and seems that there is a wilful, but maybe totally understandable, reluctance to accept what is being reported widely.

what is being reported widely is that events should be able to resume normally from April.

I'm cautious about that because goalposts keep moving, and not all risks are the same .... but one of the much-lower risks is outdoor gatherings, and that can be mitigated further with testing.

My biggest concern for whether Glastonbury goes ahead isn't how things are by June, but how soon the govt says how things will be by June.

[Fuzzy Afro]

I find it quite amusing when people mention hand washing as if it’s a “restriction” that’s temporarily in place rather than a basic hygiene measure that we should all be doing anyway. 

[jparx]

7 minutes ago, jannybruck said:

I understand why it's so easy to be negative - it's comforting, on some level, to not have to be disappointed, and it's a nice feeling to be ultimately proven right.

But we're literally deploying a vaccine next week and there's now news that GPs will be getting other people done before Christmas when the Oxford one gets approved. Music festivals aren't until the summer. Yes, there's production builds and all sorts of logistics to take into consideration, but as we've already experienced this year - in the 'virus timeline', six months is a long fucking time. Over the next few months - just like the past few months! - there's inevitably going to be improvements in testing deployment, in efficiency, in other technology, in other solutions. I'm super hopeful.

Also, on a very base level, mass summer events are far too important to multiple different economic ecosystems for them to not happen in nearly-back-to-normal form this year. The government are making all the right noises that they want them to happen properly, and that's half the battle.

That’s a much more eloquent version of what I’ve been trying to say all morning! 

[stuartbert two hats]

1 hour ago, squirrelarmy said:

Who else thinks the anti lockdown protesters will transition into anti-vax protesters? 
 

It all seems to be the same crowd who are serial protesters. 

I think a lot of them are both already. I think Piers Corbyn is, for instance.

[henry bear]

41 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

I'm 95% certain that the festival won't be happening. As people have said, festivals don't matter to the majority of people (and actually many would love to see lefty snowflake unsanitary events disappear for good - the same types who laugh at remainers worrying about the effects of Brexit). 

I think 2022 for any festivals that don't have those socially distanced platforms 

It’s not just festivals though, it’s travel, tourism, hospitality, retail, sport, charities - loads of sectors that are on their arses because of the pandemic. And all this affects the economy massively. There’s enormous pressure on the government to get the country back to normal soon, especially with the likes of the Euros on the horizon.

I do think Glastonbury will happen. It might look different, with mask wearing and plenty of sanitising points (and they’ll almost certainly have to backtrack on the no plastic pledge this year) but we’ll get there. 

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

I find it quite amusing when people mention hand washing as if it’s a “restriction” that’s temporarily in place rather than a basic hygiene measure that we should all be doing anyway. 

I'm talking about sanitiser stations as part of handwashing.

[Crazyfool01]

I wonder if they are increasing the size of that water reservoir ? .... its quite tight in hot years !!  Sanitisation stations might be less of an issue dotting a few more of those about ....