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When will this shit end?


Chrisp1986

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1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

Problem with that...for a lot of people it will be an emotional decision, not a pragmatic one...it was similar with the brexit vote.

Yes that’s a big problem for those who want to stay in the union. The nationalists are very good with sound bites , rhetoric and waving flags. Very reminiscent of the Brexit issue.   Not so good on the harsh financial realities of their plans. It’s a difficult issue to debate on social media as it can attract quite a bit of abuse! 

Edited by Ayrshire Chris
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Just now, Zoo Music Girl said:

Presume this is a joke, but I can't think of one possible reason why the Republic of Ireland would want to join the UK.

In an ideal world we’d scrap the UK as it is and make a new equally split group of nations without the central power base being in London. 

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1 hour ago, topmarksbri said:

I think they could go down the route of further devolution in Scotland - keeps the union in tact and gives the Scots some stability but gives Scotland more power to decide their own government etc. Having a kind of federal/state system in the UK could be interesting. 

The old liberal party and the current Lib Dem’s have always flirted with the idea of a federal UK . As usual, Our voting system has worked against them getting this off the drawing board. 

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1 minute ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Yeah but why would an independent nation that's still part of the EU want anything to do with that? What's the motivation?

Main idea would be stop the London based parliament controlling everything when they are clearly out of touch with the other nations. 
 

I don’t like the divide in the country because of this. Culturally Yorkshire has far more in common with Ireland than it does with London and it’s a bad that we’ve got this separation. I understand why the Irish don’t want to be run by the existing Parliament because we don’t want to be run by them either. 

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12 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

I dunno, the ones now, on both sides, seem a lot more idiotic than prior ones. I feel like Cameron would have handled COVID far better. Blair, Cameron and even Brown came across as impressive people to me, who knew what they were doing in a way that pretty much none of the front benches of Corbyn did or Johnson's do.

yeah, but we're talking very small margins.

Even Sturgeon has shown herself to be about equal(ly bad) to Spaffer, apart from a bit of marketing fluff.

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2 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

Main idea would be stop the London based parliament controlling everything when they are clearly out of touch with the other nations. 
 

I don’t like the divide in the country because of this. Culturally Yorkshire has far more in common with Ireland than it does with London and it’s a bad that we’ve got this separation. I understand why the Irish don’t want to be run by the existing Parliament because we don’t want to be run by them either. 

Ireland fought for years for their independence. Genuinely baffled by this suggestion! 

Edited by Zoo Music Girl
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7 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

This is nonsense.

Not really. They all fuck up sooner or later, and no one nowhere says "aren't our politicians wonderful".

Grumbling about politicians and finding their many faults is what people do with politicians, whoever they are and no matter how competent they might seem to be (with a bit of partisan-ship and free-passing thrown in for the ones on 'my' side).

 

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1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

yeah, but we're talking very small margins.

Even Sturgeon has shown herself to be about equal(ly bad) to Spaffer, apart from a bit of marketing fluff.

Depends how you look at it. I think the gap between Spaffer and Cameron is absolutely huge (in terms of how bad the country suffers), but the gap between Cameron and someone genuinely good is ten times that.

The problem is most politicians do all their training and all their experience in being politicians. Then if they do really well, one day, they get put in charge of actually running something, yet know nothing about it. 

(And ironically, Cameron's big cock-up was a political issue - holding the referendum to try and keep the party together, rather than anything else)

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4 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Ireland fought for years for their independence. Genuinely baffled by this suggestion! 

Still would stay independent, there could also be an independent Yorkshire and independent Cornwall etc. 
 

As separate nations who share the same landmass and waters there could be cooperation on some things.

Definitely not suggesting Ireland comes under control of the UK government. Should be getting rid of it.  

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1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

Depends how you look at it. I think the gap between Spaffer and Cameron is absolutely huge (in terms of how bad the country suffers), but the gap between Cameron and someone genuinely good is ten times that.

perhaps, but it's still small margins. 

To take the partisanship out of it, just think thru the tory PMs. Some were better than others, but the margins are small.

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Just now, squirrelarmy said:

Still would stay independent, there could also be an independent Yorkshire and independent Cornwall etc. 
 

As separate nations who share the same landmass and waters there could be cooperation on some things.

Definitely not suggesting Ireland comes under control of the UK government. Should be getting rid of it.  

Right okay, I thought you were suggesting they come under the UK! So you're basically proposing a new trading bloc, like the EU but the British and Irish isles?

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1 minute ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Right okay, I thought you were suggesting they come under the UK! So you're basically proposing a new trading bloc, like the EU but the British and Irish isles?

Pretty much. We share the same language and culture. The division is political. Main aim is taking away the power of the current government who are getting things badly wrong. 
 

There is a growing independence movement for Yorkshire, I feel like I’m more Yorkshire than I am English.

I mentioned Cornwall too as they’ve always wanted to keep their original culture. 

 

It’s all Alfreds fault for joining the country together 😂

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7 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

perhaps, but it's still small margins. 

To take the partisanship out of it, just think thru the tory PMs. Some were better than others, but the margins are small.

I think Johnson, Corbyn and Trump are all orders of magnitude worse than Cameron, Blair or even Thatcher, in terms of absolute competence. And ironically those are all politicians where people *are* saying "aren't they wonderful?"

They're the sort of people who are in broad agreement that "they're all as bad as each other" but they see their saviors as an exception to that rule - and its that sort of populism that gets them elected.

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34 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

I dunno, the ones now, on both sides, seem a lot more idiotic than prior ones. I feel like Cameron would have handled COVID far better. Blair, Cameron and even Brown came across as impressive people to me, who knew what they were doing in a way that pretty much none of the front benches of Corbyn did or Johnson's do.

The current crop are, by some way, the most inept bunch to hold office in years. I may not have always agreed with previous PMs, but I've at least had a bit of confidence that they're fairly competent people. We've got an absolutely useless PM, surrounded by people whose sole reason for being in a cabinet full of non-entities is that they support a policy that is the single most self-destructive thing a country has ever imposed upon itself.

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