Jump to content

When will this shit end?


Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

That's not nasty, it's stupid, it's inflexible, it's naïve, but it's not nasty. 

Someone who leads a pack of bullies is nasty in my mind

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 41.9k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • steviewevie

    4923

  • Ozanne

    3596

  • crazyfool1

    3516

  • zahidf

    2334

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I think on a music festival message board it’s a legitimate question to ask. It doesn’t suggest the OP doesn’t give a shit about anything else. Of course there are much bigger things to be worrie

I can’t get the following thought out of my head and it’s making the old bottom lip wobble: Wednesday evening at the 2021 festival, the sun has been out all day but temperature not stifling, perf

Howdy folks...sorry I'm late to the party! Was in a meeting and could see notifications coming up! So, looks very promising indeed. The vaccinated group not only didn't develop severe disease, bu

Posted Images

21 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Good riddance that nasty man is gone from politics.

Too much momentum whispering in his ear that he’s a magic grandpa that has the moral upper hand in every situation he’s in. He would of been one of the most dangerous leaders we would ever have had if he got in.

Brilliant.  Whenever I need affirmation about my opinions I only ever need to read posts like this to illustrate the standard of debate against them.  

On politics matt I find you about as likely to be right as the Daily Express is to be about the weather.

Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

Corbyn walked right into that one. 

I think Corbyn wants to have this fight now, in some ways Iagree with him, if there is to be a reckoning between the Corbynite left and Stamers leadership it's best that it is resolved as soon as possible. Obviously it would be better if everyone could pull in the same direction without the squabble but if it were done when 'tis done, 'twere well it were done quickly.

Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Good riddance that nasty man is gone from politics.

Too much momentum whispering in his ear that he’s a magic grandpa that has the moral upper hand in every situation he’s in. He would of been one of the most dangerous leaders we would ever have had if he got in.

Absolutely bonkers. Even for your ridiculous-hot-take high standards.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, mcshed said:

I think Corbyn wants to have this fight now, in some ways Iagree with him, if there is to be a reckoning between the Corbynite left and Stamers leadership it's best that it is resolved as soon as possible. Obviously it would be better if everyone could pull in the same direction without the squabble but if it were done when 'tis done, 'twere well it were done quickly.

Yeah this.  This situation was going to come to a head at some point, might as well be completely out of the way of a general election.

The winter of reckonings begins.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, mcshed said:

Obviously it would be better if everyone could pull in the same direction without the squabble but if it were done when 'tis done, 'twere well it were done quickly.

I'm on the far left of the party and naturally supported Corbyn, but I'm of the opinion that I'd rather seek compromise than confrontation.  I'm sad at how this has all played out, but I'm not going to be kicking off about it, nor placing blame.  I'll just keep voting for candidates that represent my views within the party and hope for gradual change.

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Spindles said:

I'm on the far left of the party and naturally supported Corbyn, but I'm of the opinion that I'd rather seek compromise than confrontation.  I'm sad at how this has all played out, but I'm not going to be kicking off about it, nor placing blame.  I'll just keep voting for candidates that represent my views within the party and hope for gradual change.

Only 2 more weeks to get those NEC votes in. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Spindles said:

I'm on the far left of the party and naturally supported Corbyn, but I'm of the opinion that I'd rather seek compromise than confrontation.  I'm sad at how this has all played out, but I'm not going to be kicking off about it, nor placing blame.  I'll just keep voting for candidates that represent my views within the party and hope for gradual change.

Me too, I'm also on the far left and also think it's crazy to have a big confrontation- the Tories have a thumping majority, are re-stuffing the BBC with even more Tories, we're about to leave the EU and lose our human rights and regulations, we're in the middle of a pandemic with huge loss of life and economic destruction- they have absolute carte blanch to do what they like and reshape the country for decades. It's absolute stupidity to decide to turn fire on ourselves at this point.

And any centrists who want this, you do realise that once the left is dispatched, you're next! The Tories are lining up this whole culture war thing as the central plank of the next few years, and that means you'll be the target with your 'liberal, lefty, enemy within' values

Edited by Mr.Tease
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

Absolutely bonkers. Even for your ridiculous-hot-take high standards.

Corbyn has a persistent track record of praising anti-Semitic critics and allowing anti-Semitic views to spread through his party. The problem is that he doesn’t recognise himself as anti-Semitic because he’s constantly surrounded by a mob which put him on an extremely high pedestal. 

He’s happy to sit back and smirk while members of his circle go around and bully others. I think there’s simply nothing more to add about the situation.

The only reason I can see why people have a problem with this is because they too don’t see the anti-semitism, or they are still bitter about the failure of the corbyn project and feel like Starmer is trying to target them. Starmer knows that the longer this issue goes on the Labour Party will be unelectable. What do you do with a weed? Kill it at the root.

Edited by Matt42
Link to post
Share on other sites

ooh, here comes Tier 4+!

 

The foreign secretary, Dominic Raab, has refused to deny that ministers are considering introducing a higher tier 4 level of coronavirus restrictions, less than three weeks after the launch of the three-tier lockdown model.

Officials are reportedly drawing up plans for an extra layer of measures forcing restaurants and non-essential shops to close in parts of England with the highest infection rates.

 

Asked whether a new tier 4 was being considered, Raab told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme on Friday: “We’re always ready for further measures that we can take. But I think the most important thing about further measures is that we continue on the track we’re on of targeting the virus.”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/30/dominic-raab-refuses-to-deny-possibility-of-tier-4-covid-restrictions

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

ooh, here comes Tier 4+!

 

The foreign secretary, Dominic Raab, has refused to deny that ministers are considering introducing a higher tier 4 level of coronavirus restrictions, less than three weeks after the launch of the three-tier lockdown model.

Officials are reportedly drawing up plans for an extra layer of measures forcing restaurants and non-essential shops to close in parts of England with the highest infection rates.

 

Asked whether a new tier 4 was being considered, Raab told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme on Friday: “We’re always ready for further measures that we can take. But I think the most important thing about further measures is that we continue on the track we’re on of targeting the virus.”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/30/dominic-raab-refuses-to-deny-possibility-of-tier-4-covid-restrictions

Tier 4 fears.

Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Spindles said:

 

On politics matt I find you about as likely to be right as the Daily Express is to be about the weather.

In about 84 years, when the country is ravaged by the worst snowstorm in history and the Express is proved right with their annual worst-weather prediction, you'll eat these words!

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

So why when the report came out did he say there was no problem with it? Why did he double down?

He literally said;

"Anyone claiming there is no antisemitism in the Labour Party is wrong. Of course there is, as there is throughout society, and sometimes it is voiced by people who think of themselves as on the left."

So, I'll repeat what I've said; he's politically naïve and his response yesterday was probably another example of that. However his suspension is completely disproportionate and, I suspect, will do the party more harm than good. But lets not stray from the original point, which was your attempting to paint him as history's greatest monster was bonkers.

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Me too, I'm also on the far left and also think it's crazy to have a big confrontation- the Tories have a thumping majority, are re-stuffing the BBC with even more Tories, we're about to leave the EU and lose our human rights and regulations, we're in the middle of a pandemic with huge loss of life and economic destruction- they have absolute carte blanch to do what they like and reshape the country for decades. It's absolute stupidity to decide to turn fire on ourselves at this point.

And any centrists who want this, you do realise that once the left is dispatched, you're next! The Tories are lining up this whole culture war thing as the central plank of the next few years, and that means you'll be the target with your 'liberal, lefty, enemy within' values

 

25 minutes ago, Spindles said:

I'm on the far left of the party and naturally supported Corbyn, but I'm of the opinion that I'd rather seek compromise than confrontation.  I'm sad at how this has all played out, but I'm not going to be kicking off about it, nor placing blame.  I'll just keep voting for candidates that represent my views within the party and hope for gradual change.

For you far left guys, I’d challenge you to look at the far right flank of the Tory party. Your Mark Francois and Peter Bone type characters. They’re the Tory equivalent of Abbott and McDonnell types.

 

The Tories won back power from Labour in 2010 by capturing the centre ground. That’s how you win at politics in a 2 party, FPTP system. There’s a portion of the country that will always back Labour and a portion that will always go Conservative but you need to win over the swing voters. There’s two general areas that need to be targeted by the Labour Party.

 

The first is the red wall which it lost last year. The only way to win these places back is to be patriotic and socially conservative and actually pretend to love the country. The second is the middle England seats that went blue in 2010, places like Harlow. We need to win the economic argument to get these places back.

 

My main point is that the far left are better off influencing policy once we actually have a Labour government. Their time will come, but trying to pull the leadership to the left now is only going to gift Boris a second term. Let’s focus on the red wall and on middle England, and once we get a Labour government we can have that conversation about more socialist policies. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, mcshed said:

Only 2 more weeks to get those NEC votes in. 

I was a keen early voter, don't worry.  

11 minutes ago, Gilb said:

In about 84 years, when the country is ravaged by the worst snowstorm in history and the Express is proved right with their annual worst-weather prediction, you'll eat these words!

Brilliant.

Naturally I am as poor in upvotes as ever, but if I had them I'd be liberally sprinkling them like the happy upvote fairy on some of the posts these last couple of pages.  Some realistic assessments amongst the hyperbole and tabloid opinions, thanks to everyone who's contributed sensibly to the discussion.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

He literally said;

"Anyone claiming there is no antisemitism in the Labour Party is wrong. Of course there is, as there is throughout society, and sometimes it is voiced by people who think of themselves as on the left."

So, I'll repeat what I've said; he's politically naïve and his response yesterday was probably another example of that. However his suspension is completely disproportionate and, I suspect, will do the party more harm than good. But lets not stray from the original point, which was your attempting to paint him as history's greatest monster was bonkers.

History’s greater monster 😂 no. He would have been a dangerous leader because he enables a culture of aggression in his party because he knows it benefits him. Now he’s realised it may not have been the best approach because whatever he oversees and allows in his party he has to take the fall for.

Someone who is politically naive is an incredibly dangerous leader. If he allows members of his party to act as they are and fears stepping in because he doesn’t want division - that’s an incredibly dangerous direction to lead in. What this reads to me is that he saw all this going on, dabbled with it himself, but didn’t want to get rid of any his party members because he feared losing all his support.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Matt42 said:

History’s greater monster 😂 no. He would have been a dangerous leader because he enables a culture of aggression in his party because he knows it benefits him. Now he’s realised it may not have been the best approach because whatever he oversees and allows in his party he has to take the fall for.

Someone who is politically naive is an incredibly dangerous leader. If he allows members of his party to act as they are and fears stepping in because he doesn’t want division - that’s an incredibly dangerous direction to lead in. What this reads to me is that he saw all this going on, dabbled with it himself, but didn’t want to get rid of any his party members because he feared losing all his support.

Bar the politically naive point you could level all of this at Boris Johnson as well. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, balthazarstarbuck said:

Bar the politically naive point you could level all of this at Boris Johnson as well. 

Point to me where I sided with Boris Johnson in all of this?

This is a massive part of the issue too. The left don’t want to criticise the issue because any criticism of corbyn is seen as support for the tories. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a shame the fallout of the EHRC report has become all about Corbyn, when really it should be all about what the report actually says about antisemitism in the labour party. It's like kicking out Corbyn solves the problem, as if there was no antisemitism within the labour movement before Corbyn became leader.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, steviewevie said:

It's a shame the fallout of the EHRC report has become all about Corbyn, when really it should be all about what the report actually says about antisemitism in the labour party. It's like kicking out Corbyn solves the problem, as if there was no antisemitism within the labour movement before Corbyn became leader.

Anti semitism is a major problem with the left in general as they’re all armchair experts on the Middle East peace process. Likewise with islamophobia on the right. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...



×
×
  • Create New...