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When will this shit end?


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1 minute ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

And cause a massive divide between those still at work (some of whom will be working very high risk jobs) & those sat at home on furlough? I get the point you're trying to make, it works when you compare say a middle class office worker on a decent wage working from home with a low paid factory worker who's been furloughed, but substitute said office worker for a nurse or a care worker & the argument quickly loses backing. That isn't the solution in my opinion. 

The furlough thing was inherently unfair in itself because it meant that WFH people like myself were working full time for effectively 20% of our wage (as we could have been furloughed for the remaining 80%)

 

UBI is the best option for me.

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1 minute ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

The furlough thing was inherently unfair in itself because it meant that WFH people like myself were working full time for effectively 20% of our wage (as we could have been furloughed for the remaining 80%)

I mean that's one very selfish way to look at it, thank you for backing up the point about causing a divide though. 

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1 minute ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

I mean that's one very selfish way to look at it, thank you for backing up the point about causing a divide though. 

I didn't mind too much because it gave me something to do, but some on my team were practically begging to go on furlough because they could get a few months off for only a 20% hit in their wages.

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56 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

You don't call an honourable member "scum" in the house of commons. It's incredibly poor behaviour and something I'd expect from far left/far right weirdos and not the deputy leader of the party. It undermines the centrist approach of Starmer and is unacceptable.

Let’s call a spade a spade. 

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1 minute ago, ace56blaa said:

9.52% positivity rate.

that's got to be down to the rationing of tests to people with symptoms - whereas 6-8 weeks ago it was people just getting tests without symptoms. 

Literally NOTHING but closing schools (or Wuhan style measures while leaving schools open but best not go there) will sort this.  Tier 2/3/whatever isn't going to convince anyone to change behaviour and anyone who would go to the pub and not socially distance will just go round people's houses which is worse. 

As soon as schools opened it went to shit, yet we still get this madness pushed that kids don't really spread or catch the virus. I get that this is stealth herd immunity to try to get the younger generation some kind of protection to hopefully reduce the effects of the next wave, but it's getting out of control now. 

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Majority of schools are shut for half term either this or next week which may mitigate some of the cases down a bit in a few weeks - working in a school however I think its important they stay open in some capacity, children have missed out on half a years learning and just shutting them again would cause even greater inequality and issues amongst younger people 

Edited by Chapple12345
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1 hour ago, DeanoL said:

We can afford it. The Furlough scheme has cost £39 billion to date. A short-term furlough scheme for a short-term circuit break lockdown is easily possible. The fact is, with the way governments work, the national debt goes up every year anyway. This decade of austerity did nothing but decrease the speed our debt went up. They can borrow more, and it's an investment in keeping the economy going and making sure it can recover as a vaccine comes in and things start to go back to normal.

I've had sympathy for the government position that the furlough scheme couldn't continue indefinitely - I do think there's a point where it would even become unfair for people to be paid 80% of their wage to do nothing for over a year, while normally when you lose your job you get nothing. But for a set period of time, where the costs would be mostly known, and maybe even in a way that protected the 80% for those on minimum wage but tapered a bit more severely for those on more I'd be hugely in favour of, and we can certainly afford it. 

Or you know, they could not be Tories and tax people who are still in work an extra 1% corona tax in order to pay for furlough and enhanced redundancy payments for those that have lost their jobs. I don't think many people would object to that at all because very few of us are in jobs that 100% safe right now, and there's a good chance we'd know we might need that fund in the near future.

 

 

Debt will always go up. It's not always a bad thing - even more so when interest rates are at their historical lows. 
People quote the national debt figure because it looks bigger & better in headlines and makes people go 'ooh wow look at that big number'. So use that to bash the government, whilst the government will quote the deficit figure (which had fallen a lot between 2010 to 2019 which was the purpose of austerity) to sing their own praises.
The deficit is the problem - the difference between government income and spending. This is likely to rocket when the 2020 figures come to pass (and projections already forecast) which isn't good and is also a reason for them not wanting to continue furlough and bailing out the economy. 
Add Brexit into the mix and it's a scary scenario for any recovery.

They're going to have to claw back this money somehow. Running with austerity again would be suicide and I don't see this lot going down that route again. Income taxation is an obvious means but would be the first increase since Thatcher and may be impossible for a Tory government to sell to their backbenchers. I don't see why not. As someone who has done financially ok out of lockdown (work from home=no train fares/no city living costs) I think we should hand over some more income tax to get the country back on its feet. 2p on basic and 5p on higher but increase the personal allowance would be my prerogative for a couple of years, but I expect the cnuts will look after their rich benefactors and find some cnut-ish way of keeping their mates secure whilst everyone and everything at the lower end of the financial spectrum struggles.

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13 minutes ago, stuie said:

Let’s call a spade a spade. 

I find it ridiculous that the Tories can literally be refusing kids free school meals and nothing is said. But if a Labour politician calls a Tory a bad name then they get jumped on by someone. Considering the PM can lie in the HoC I think saying ‘scum’ should be fair game. What a world we live in. 

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4 minutes ago, Chapple12345 said:

Majority of schools are shut for half term either this or next week which may mitigate some of the cases down a bit in a few weeks - working in a school however I think its important they stay open in some capacity, children have missed out on half a years learning and just shutting them again would cause even greater inequality and issues amongst younger people 

then we accept this level of virus spread or enforce harsh measures on the rest of the population to prevent them leaving their homes - is there no middle ground? One week half term won't make a difference, it's not even one virus cycle

Edited by efcfanwirral
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6 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I find it ridiculous that the Tories can literally be refusing kids free school meals and nothing is said. But if a Labour politician calls a Tory a bad name then they get jumped on by someone. Considering the PM can lie in the HoC I think saying ‘scum’ should be fair game. What a world we live in. 

I call them all much worse things while shouting at the telebox most days. 

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12 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

Yeah, sorry, you know what I meant though.

At the very least it’s crucially important that outdoor exercise rules are reset to May levels (unlimited) and not March levels (one form of exercise per day, up to an hour). 

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4 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

then we accept this level of virus spread or enforce harsh measures on the rest of the population to prevent them leaving their homes - is there no middle ground? One week half term won't make a difference, it's not even one virus cycle

The virus cannot be suppressed while schools are fully open IMO. Even if literally everyone else who wasn’t a key worker was crowbarred into their house, I reckon schools alone would keep the R number higher than 1. 

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1 minute ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

At the very least it’s crucially important that outdoor exercise rules are reset to May levels (unlimited) and not March levels (one form of exercise per day, up to an hour). 

do you know what ... I think I agree .... im off for a lie down !! :) 

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11 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I find it ridiculous that the Tories can literally be refusing kids free school meals and nothing is said. But if a Labour politician calls a Tory a bad name then they get jumped on by someone. Considering the PM can lie in the HoC I think saying ‘scum’ should be fair game. What a world we live in. 

Yeah, let's just get this straight. Tories are scum. Infact they should be called the Scum party.

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