When will this shit end?

[stuie 315]

2 minutes ago, Quark said:

Trouble is that it's also the equivalent of the bully getting punched, but then they both get taken to the headteacher's office and they're both told to behave themselves in future with absolutely zero impact on the bully's behaviour.

2 minutes ago, st dan said:

Except rather than going down, this bully stands there and takes all the punches, but remains unaffected by them then just goes about his day as is nothing has happened! 

Every bully gets his comeuppance one day! 

[FestivalJamie 143]

So can someone actually tell me how tier 3 is different to tier 2 apart from closing bars which don’t sell food? (Given pubs which serve “a pasty and chips” can stay open).

Yesterday we had 241 deaths, deaths are now climbing by about 100 each week. That means at this current rate in 10 weeks with no national circuit breaker we will reach 1000 deaths a day. Meaning on Christmas Day we could see a really nasty death toll. 

I am still in complete doubt these tiers are doing anything to reduce the numbers, they are harming the economy but not getting infection rates down. We need proper closures of hospitality accompanied by proper support, universities need to move fully online (and send students home from halls after a 2 week quarantine) and secondary schools need to reduce bubble size and move to a blended learning approach. 

The current state we are in is very dangerous. Tier 2 and tier 3 have done nothing so far to reduce the infections, the r is still noticeably above 1. Moving more areas into tier 3 in my opinion will have no effect either, as just closing bars will not stop this virus circulating. We need firmer restrictions, potentially in the form of a circuit breaker. I would personally opt for national rather than regional as it prevents people going to socialise and go out in different cities if things in theirs are closed.

[efcfanwirral 169]

10 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

This is a really good point and one @DeanoL has been making consistently. I'm a good example of someone who is doing fine financially but still massively restricting my leisure activities due to the risk of the virus, both to myself and spreading it in general, but mainly because we have vulnerable people in our lives and the chance to see them potentially at some point is way more important to us than going to the pub or a restaurant. We could do that, but we're not. So I wonder how many people like me are not doing the things they are technically allowed to, which sadly affects the economy, because the virus is not under control. 

I'm in exactly the same boat - me and my girlfriend live in a town where none of our friends are, and in normal times are more than happy to go out in here or the next town for a couple of drinks in various places and end with an (amazing) meal at a music bar. Usually just the two of us so technically we can still do this.

But we don't now the weather has turned. Our cut off was inside/outside once it became clear spread had slowed hugely over the summer. We were a bit uncomfortable with the lack of masks inside when you go to order at the bar (and that itself wasn't great) but we figured you weren't spending long in there anyway. 

But our contribution to the economy is now basically supermarket and online orders. We do nothing at all else. Gigs and holidays, plus travelling to see friends in different areas, were our main activities.

 

Edited October 21 by efcfanwirral

[st dan 313]

10 mins in and Boris is actually winning this one so far I think ....

[Quark 3,354]

4 minutes ago, stuie said:

Every bully gets his comeuppance one day! 

Wish I had your optimism.  Hollywood would tell us that they do, but real life's horribly different.

Johnson will eventually get booted out or discarded, but he won't go to jail, he won't lose his fortune, and he won't be left jobless.  The public perception of him will be wrecked but, and this is the key thing again, he won't give a shit.

[Dom Wall 31]

What happens when all regions are in Tier 3?

[jannybruck 115]

1 minute ago, Quark said:

The public perception of him will be wrecked but, and this is the key thing again, he won't give a shit.

The is the thing when you're born with such extreme privilege – from a very early age you realise that you're essentially untouchable. If you're rich, privately educated, and well connected there'll be absolutely no repercussions for you unless you really do something atrocious. He'll walk easily a cushy six figure job on a company board somewhere.

[Ryan1984 66]

5 minutes ago, st dan said:

10 mins in and Boris is actually winning this one so far I think ....

I only saw the last question and Boris came close to answering it. Seemed like he was winning by spinning it as Starmer wants to close schools again?

[Ozanne 653]

That was fun. Starmer’s point that no area that has gone in to Tier 2 has ever gone back to Tier 1, that they've all ended up in Tier 3 was a good one.

Boris said Starmer’s lockdown plan fails because it has no defined end. After just failing to answer the question on how Tier 3 ends.

Starmer also points out only Cornwall and Isle of Wight have lower infection rates than Greater Manchester when it went into local lockdown is a very good point. 
 

Just a few bits of the highlights which point out how woefully inept Johnson is. Starmer easily shows him up at every opportunity.

Edited October 21 by Ozanne

[crazyfool1 3,201]

might as well scrap the questions from the sitting party , give red and yellow cards from the speaker and employ VAR perhaps then we might get a question answered ...... this PMQs needs some kind of reform or its just pointless crap back and forth with no real depth or answers 

[st dan 313]

3 minutes ago, Ryan1984 said:

I only saw the last question and Boris came close to answering it. Seemed like he was winning by spinning it as Starmer wants to close schools again?

His main defence was that Starmer wants the nationwide circuit breaker lockdown, whilst at the same time is criticising the economic packages for those in Tier 3. He’s clearly angling for a return of the 80% furlough scheme whilst we have a full lockdown again, but it’s quite apparent that isn’t going to happen, mainly because we simply can’t afford it to. 

[SwedgeAntilles 2,947]

Starmer blew that. Let Johnson off the hook big time after the last 24 hours. 

[st dan 313]

6 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

That was fun. Starmer’s point that no area that has gone in to Tier 2 has ever gone back to Tier 1, that they've all ended up in Tier 3 was a good one.

Boris said Starmer’s lockdown plan fails because it has no defined end. After just failing to answer the question on how Tier 3 ends.

Starmer also points out only Cornwall and Isle of Wight have lower infection rates than Greater Manchester when it went into local lockdown is a very good point. 
 

Just a few bits of the highlights which point out how woefully inept Johnson is. Starmer easily shows him up at every opportunity.

His main issue right now is that he cannot confirm how we should finance the nationwide circuit breaker - the 80% furlough scheme just isn’t sustainable any longer for the full country. It is probably what is needed, but without the ‘money tree’ i don’t know how he can continue to push for it to happen. 

[ace56blaa 106]

2 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

might as well scrap the questions from the sitting party , give red and yellow cards from the speaker and employ VAR perhaps then we might get a question answered ...... this PMQs needs some kind of reform or its just pointless crap back and forth with no real depth or answers 

At this point it's just the PM dodging any question that are even slightly critical and then getting prepared questions from Tory MPs so that he can make some fucked up speech. 

It's "We thank the mayor of london for his negotiations for tier 2" when trying to shame Andy Burnham

But Complete destruction of the mayor regarding tfl. 

This government is a mafia, using intimidation tactics and tying their MPs to a sense of loyalty. I hope some of the MPs listened to Kier address them today. Because right now Tory Mps are fighting for Westminster and no where else

[Lycra 175]

23 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

So can someone actually tell me how tier 3 is different to tier 2 apart from closing bars which don’t sell food? (Given pubs which serve “a pasty and chips” can stay open).

It's not going to be good for my health if I have to eat a pasty every time I want a pint 😐

[Ryan1984 66]

Boris seems to have it in for the ‘incompetent Labour mayor of London’ today, doesn’t he?

[swede 5]

3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

JVT completely contradicted himself yesterday.

He said that lockdowns are best done when cases are low, and then said that the south west shouldn't be locked down because cases are low.

He's definitely Spaffer's man.

Yes, you def now when Vallance or Whitty have gone of script at the briefings as JVT always makes an appearance at the next one  

[ace56blaa 106]

6 minutes ago, st dan said:

His main issue right now is that he cannot confirm how we should finance the nationwide circuit breaker - the 80% furlough scheme just isn’t sustainable any longer for the full country. It is probably what is needed, but without the ‘money tree’ i don’t know how he can continue to push for it to happen. 

This is the problem with PMQs, it shouldn't be about what Keir Starmer couldn't answer, when Bojo himself doesn't answer a goddamn thing. 

Boris can lie or spin the truth and say ridiculous stuff, like Keir doesn't have an exit plan for the circuit breaker. When the circuit breaker has a built in exit plan. He can lie and say that he will close schools when Keir said that he wouldn't want school closed and would want the cb to be alongside halfterm so that for a week of it schools would be closed anyway. - He can say Keir hasn't costed the cb, when there has been studies showing that it could save more money in the long run if it works. 

The problem is Keir shouldn't face questions from the prime minister at PMQs and he deliberately doesn't answer them because he has spend his time on actually asking questions. To answer Boris's questions would be failure because then there is less pressure for Boris to answer his

 

Edited October 21 by ace56blaa

[fatyeti24 2,524]

32 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

This is a really good point and one @DeanoL has been making consistently. I'm a good example of someone who is doing fine financially but still massively restricting my leisure activities due to the risk of the virus, both to myself and spreading it in general, but mainly because we have vulnerable people in our lives and the chance to see them potentially at some point is way more important to us than going to the pub or a restaurant. We could do that, but we're not. So I wonder how many people like me are not doing the things they are technically allowed to, which sadly affects the economy, because the virus is not under control. 

Similar here.  We don't have vulnerable people who we're trying to protect, more that what's on offer re pubs etc isn't all that enticing and as we're living off reduced money this year it's pretty easy to resist the temptation to go out and spend it.  I've been in one pub and a handful of restaurants since they reopened.  The restaurants were fine, the pub was a largely dispiriting experience compared to what it once was.

Thankfully, many of the things I enjoy about living where I do are largely covid-proof.  But they also barely contribute to the local economy.

[swede 5]

37 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

This is a really good point and one @DeanoL has been making consistently. I'm a good example of someone who is doing fine financially but still massively restricting my leisure activities due to the risk of the virus, both to myself and spreading it in general, but mainly because we have vulnerable people in our lives and the chance to see them potentially at some point is way more important to us than going to the pub or a restaurant. We could do that, but we're not. So I wonder how many people like me are not doing the things they are technically allowed to, which sadly affects the economy, because the virus is not under control. 

My wifes high risk, shes 35 and has Graves disease which compromises her immune system, the last week and a half a flu like virus, which I had for a couple of days but shook off, has absolutely floored her, looking like the onset of pleurisy. With that being said id stopped all my normal pre covid fitness classes, still going to the gym once or twice a week as I can keep my distance and everyone seems on top of the sanitizing before and after using equipment, but fitness classes just seem a risk to me, the HIIT class I usually go to is running at 25 people per session, 4 sessions a day, in a very confined space. 

If whatever we've had can wipe my wife out like it has I dread to think what covid might do. 

[efcfanwirral 169]

7 minutes ago, fatyeti24 said:

Similar here.  We don't have vulnerable people who we're trying to protect, more that what's on offer re pubs etc isn't all that enticing and as we're living off reduced money this year it's pretty easy to resist the temptation to go out and spend it.  I've been in one pub and a handful of restaurants since they reopened.  The restaurants were fine, the pub was a largely dispiriting experience compared to what it once was.

Thankfully, many of the things I enjoy about living where I do are largely covid-proof.  But they also barely contribute to the local economy.

We have a huge lack of good takeaways round here - reviews for all of them are really poor. Contrast that to my hometown, which is a similar size, where we lived over first lockdown with my parents, and there is a great curry place, the best takeaway pizza I've ever had, amazing fish and chips and more recently a new takeaway offering from my favourite restaurant there. It's a shame because when we lived there that was our weekend treat and it helped local business. 

It's a shame where I am now hasn't caught onto that really. The good restaurants don't do takeaway and I guess I'll just have to try the 3.5 star curry house at my own risk...

Edited October 21 by efcfanwirral

[st dan 313]

4 minutes ago, ace56blaa said:

This is the problem with PMQs, it shouldn't be about what Keir Starmer couldn't answer, when Bojo himself doesn't answer a goddamn thing. 

Boris can lie or spin the truth and say ridiculous stuff, like Keir doesn't have an exit plan for the circuit breaker. When the circuit breaker has a built in exit plan. He can lie and say that he will close schools when Keir said that he wouldn't want school closed and would want the cb to be alongside halfterm so that for a week of it schools would be closed anyway. - He can say Keir hasn't costed the cb, when there has been studies showing that it could save more money in the long run if it works. 

The problem is Keir shouldn't face questions from the prime minister at PMQs and he deliberately doesn't answer them because he has spend his time on actually asking questions. To answer Boris's questions would be failure because then there is less pressure for Boris to answer his

 

I agree with you there, it is a strange format. But at the same time, you can’t allow Kier to have free reign to ask whatever ambiguous questions he wants without some response back from Boris back. 
And this isn’t me backing the Tories in any way at all - just think that it’s easy to suggest a counter to the current Tier approach, but you should be asked to explain what/how/why etc. 

[Zoo Music Girl 847]

Just now, swede said:

My wifes high risk, shes 35 and has Graves disease which compromises her immune system, the last week and a half a flu like virus, which I had for a couple of days but shook off, has absolutely floored her, looking like the onset of pleurisy. With that being said id stopped all my normal pre covid fitness classes, still going to the gym once or twice a week as I can keep my distance and everyone seems on top of the sanitizing before and after using equipment, but fitness classes just seem a risk to me, the HIIT class I usually go to is running at 25 people per session, 4 sessions a day, in a very confined space. 

If whatever we've had can wipe my wife out like it has I dread to think what covid might do. 

I'm sorry to hear this. I hope she's on the mend now.

My gym has been quite good in distancing the fitness classes so it's my main leisure activity at the moment (classes are barely full still either). My gym is shutting end of November, though, to refurbish so I need to get another plan in place

[ace56blaa 106]

10 minutes ago, st dan said:

His main defence was that Starmer wants the nationwide circuit breaker lockdown, whilst at the same time is criticising the economic packages for those in Tier 3. He’s clearly angling for a return of the 80% furlough scheme whilst we have a full lockdown again, but it’s quite apparent that isn’t going to happen, mainly because we simply can’t afford it to. 

I mean would could definitely afford it if the government's money management had been better. - If you add up all the money wasted it would be more than enough to have a furlough extension.

Even without that in mind, Furlough can be good for the economy, if it means more people can spend money after lockdown, or buy Christmas presents or even just pay their rent and bills.

The Tories like to spout nonsense about there not being a money tree, or that the country is in debt because it makes people more complacent to live in poverty or on a lower income, "we can't help you we the government are out of money" - "Here dido, here's another billion" - When in reality, the government could compromise on so many pointless ways of spending, but instead the first thing they compromise on is supporting people THEY are making jobless and homeless.

The truth is the way we are going the economy is going to be in tatters anyway, so why not let it be in tatters with the people actually being able to survive. Because if you are looking for just a economic recovery, the tories will just make sure the rich get richer and national GDP goes up, whilst the poor get poorer and exploited for more profit. 

[swede 5]

Just now, Zoo Music Girl said:

I'm sorry to hear this. I hope she's on the mend now.

My gym has been quite good in distancing the fitness classes so it's my main leisure activity at the moment (classes are barely full still either). My gym is shutting end of November, though, to refurbish so I need to get another plan in place

 

 

We've got a way to go with the Graves disease im afraid. 

I understand gyms spacing out fitness classes but the HIIT i usually go to is a private fitness academy, thats all they do, I see the videos they put online each day and just shake my head. I know they havent had a single case yet but it just looks a recipe for disaster to me.