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16 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Awful news. Sorry to hear that and I hope the scan shows that it's less advanced than feared.

Thanks. Me too as if it is imminently terminal I'll never get to see him again (He's in Ireland and I'm in soon to be a tier 3 area!) 

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Just now, gigpusher said:

Thanks. Me too as if it is imminently terminal I'll never get to see him again (He's in Ireland and I'm in soon to be a tier 3 area!) 

Isn't a situation like that an exception to the rules? Hopefully there are some people you can speak to about that.

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1 hour ago, foolee said:

It's not "deaths from COVID" vs "deaths from lockdown" though. There's an entire third category that is "deaths from not locking down". We've not had any of those because we have been doing the lockdown thing.

But it's a hugely incorrect assumption to make that the only deaths as a result of letting COVID-19 spread through the population would just be the deaths caused by COVID-19 itself.

Especially as the more endemic it was, the less likely people would go to a doctor or hospital anyway.

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1 minute ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Isn't a situation like that an exception to the rules? Hopefully there are some people you can speak to about that.

No even my family who are local haven't been able to visit him in hospital since he got his diagnosis. They can drop stuff out to him but not go in. 

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2 minutes ago, gigpusher said:

No even my family who are local haven't been able to visit him in hospital since he got his diagnosis. They can drop stuff out to him but not go in. 

There are grounds for compassionate travel and visits in these circumstances.   There will be an opportunity I'm sure.

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6 minutes ago, gigpusher said:

No even my family who are local haven't been able to visit him in hospital since he got his diagnosis. They can drop stuff out to him but not go in. 

Really sorry to hear your news. I'm guessing these decisions are made by individual hospitals when it comes to visitation rules? I only say that because my friend with cancer was hospitalised at the weekend (out now thankfully) but her husband was allowed to visit on the second or third day. They do have Covid patients there, but kept very separate from cancer wards for obvious reasons.

No idea if that's the norm or not, just mentioning as it's clearly not beyond the realms of possibility that people on cancer wards can have visitors at the moment. If it's Ireland maybe that's different?

Really hope you do get to see him.

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1 minute ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Really sorry to hear your news. I'm guessing these decisions are made by individual hospitals when it comes to visitation rules? I only say that because my friend with cancer was hospitalised at the weekend (out now thankfully) but her husband was allowed to visit on the second or third day. They do have Covid patients there, but kept very separate from cancer wards for obvious reasons.

No idea if that's the norm or not, just mentioning as it's clearly not beyond the realms of possibility that people on cancer wards can have visitors at the moment. If it's Ireland maybe that's different?

Really hope you do get to see him.

Perhaps they would let spouses but my brother doesn't have a spouse? My niece and sister are the closest relatives nearby. I'll be honest everyone has been in a flap since Thursday when I got the news and none of them are the most reliable with information. I do have a bit of medical knowledge as I worked for Bupa for many years so have asked them to tell my brother to give them permission to talk to me once they have the results so I can find out what to do for the best. We're not the closest family in the world and I generally only ever hear from them when there is a crisis that needs my help. There's a 10 year age gap between my brother and I and I left home so long ago and he's not great at keeping in touch so don't really hear from him a lot but we always get along well when we are together. 

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1 minute ago, gigpusher said:

Perhaps they would let spouses but my brother doesn't have a spouse? My niece and sister are the closest relatives nearby. I'll be honest everyone has been in a flap since Thursday when I got the news and none of them are the most reliable with information. I do have a bit of medical knowledge as I worked for Bupa for many years so have asked them to tell my brother to give them permission to talk to me once they have the results so I can find out what to do for the best. We're not the closest family in the world and I generally only ever hear from them when there is a crisis that needs my help. There's a 10 year age gap between my brother and I and I left home so long ago and he's not great at keeping in touch so don't really hear from him a lot but we always get along well when we are together. 

Ah that could be it. I've no idea what normal visiting rules would be either, but must admit I was a bit surprised they let him in as he is not allowed to go with her to any appointments or anything. 

I hope you can get some information at least. I know how hard it is to not know what is going on in situations like this.

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4 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Ah that could be it. I've no idea what normal visiting rules would be either, but must admit I was a bit surprised they let him in as he is not allowed to go with her to any appointments or anything. 

I hope you can get some information at least. I know how hard it is to not know what is going on in situations like this.

Yes I'm much better at doing the practical things. Just sitting waiting for information is hellish especially as my sister and niece are terrible at asking questions. 

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3 minutes ago, gigpusher said:

Yes I'm much better at doing the practical things. Just sitting waiting for information is hellish especially as my sister and niece are terrible at asking questions. 

Yeah it's the worst. Hope you get answers soon. It's such a shit thing to deal with at this time too.

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57 minutes ago, gigpusher said:

Perhaps but I know more people who have died of newly diagnosed cancer this year than covid. My own brother was given a cancer diagnosis on Thursday which they also think is terminal. We are awaiting on the results of a CT scan to confirm if he has any hope. 

oh man, so sorry to hear that. Hope results are better than expected.

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10 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

No overall number drop offs from the uni figures dropping off yet then ? 

Cases are rising now within the wider community and within towns/suburbs so we'll see this gradually rise until further actions are taken I think.

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6 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Cases are rising now within the wider community and within towns/suburbs so we'll see this gradually rise until further actions are taken I think.

Yep ... don’t think we will get much of a drop either ... the numbers already seem like they are in the system unless we take further measures ... 

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3 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Yep ... don’t think we will get much of a drop either ... the numbers already seem like they are in the system unless we take further measures ... 

I think so, especially as the colder weather draws in and people are inside more and more. I think we'll be in a circuit breaker lockdown sooner rather than later but whether that does enough as we have left it late remains to be seen.

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3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I think so, especially as the colder weather draws in and people are inside more and more. I think we'll be in a circuit breaker lockdown sooner rather than later but whether that does enough as we have left it late remains to be seen.

Politically makes much more sense to do the circuit breaker next week when the schools are closed anyway. If he delays it into November then he'd be faced with an embarrassing climbdown and having to close the school for two weeks anyway.

 

I suspect we might see a compromise on schools in the end where primary schools stay fully open and secondaries move to a blended learning model.

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5 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I think we'll be in a circuit breaker lockdown sooner rather than later but whether that does enough as we have left it late remains to be seen.

The logical time would be the next 2 weeks as it would have minimal impact on children's learning due to half terms which they seem to be worried about, I can see them trying to get them lower for December as i think they'll be adamant for some normality by then so I could see it within the next month - I think they will need to assure people it's a 2-3 week measure as people wouldn't comply if they just kept adding weeks on

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3 minutes ago, Chapple12345 said:

The logical time would be the next 2 weeks as it would have minimal impact on children's learning due to half terms which they seem to be worried about, I can see them trying to get them lower for December as i think they'll be adamant for some normality by then so I could see it within the next month - I think they will need to assure people it's a 2-3 week measure as people wouldn't comply if they just kept adding weeks on

I wonder if now might be a smidgeon too early to circuit break to ensure normality by christmas?

 

Alex Andreou on twitter was suggesting a rolling cycle of 3 week full lockdowns followed by 10 weeks of less stringent restrictions (perhaps in line with Tier 1) until the pandemic is over. This would tie in line with how long it takes the exponential curve to kick off, 10 weeks of normality is affordable without overwhelming the NHS, with 3 weeks to break the circuit and drive cases down. Having the 4 annual lockdowns on pre-determined weeks would allow everyone to prepare for them as well. It's not a bad idea IMHO.

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Sounds like the government will impose Tier 3 on Manchester without a financial settlement. Not sure what leverage Burnham has not. He can accept the deal and take the money, or he gets put in Tier 3 without a deal. Surely you take the money?

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I'm sorry to go on about this again but there won't be any normality at Christmas, certainly what we are used too. I think the sooner we as a society get used to that idea the better. If people are expecting to be able to go round all the houses they normally do and have the normal large family gathering then I would imagine they are going to be disappointed. The rules might be relaxed slightly in some areas but that might not be the right course of action. That's what I think the PM should be doing, preparing people for this outcome.

I'm sorry to be all doom and gloom especially with something like Christmas but there won't be normality for this year I'm afraid.

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3 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

I wonder if now might be a smidgeon too early to circuit break to ensure normality by christmas?

 

Alex Andreou on twitter was suggesting a rolling cycle of 3 week full lockdowns followed by 10 weeks of less stringent restrictions (perhaps in line with Tier 1) until the pandemic is over. This would tie in line with how long it takes the exponential curve to kick off, 10 weeks of normality is affordable without overwhelming the NHS, with 3 weeks to break the circuit and drive cases down. Having the 4 annual lockdowns on pre-determined weeks would allow everyone to prepare for them as well. It's not a bad idea IMHO.

Well it’s 10 weeks untill xmas so 2 /3 weeks now would also cover new year celebrations and then lockdown again in quietest period of year ... apart from gyms ... 

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