When will this shit end?

[Ayrshire Chris]

With all the restrictions put in place yesterday which will have a devastating effect on the hospitality industry up here one thing wasn’t highlighted. Measures were put in place in Scotland a few weeks ago to prevent even two households mixing. Yesterday the labour leader in Scotland asked a question asking about the serious levels of non compliance but didn’t get a decent answer. Up here in some areas this instruction was totally ignored.

Police are overwhelmed breaking up house parties and gatherings. That is the main source of transmission of the virus.  Yet this was barely mentioned apart from the labour leader. Why? In my opinion Sturgeon seemed scared to tackle this elephant in the room for fear of alienating her core support and admitting her strategy has failed. Instead she’s shut down hospitality, an industry that has worked so very hard and spent cash to conform to social distancing, deep cleaning etc.  

So what will happen now? It’s obvious, more house parties and gatherings unless the police are given the resources to prevent them. 

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, st dan said:

I can see the reasons for the discontent and why people won’t be as on board this time around. 

it's a fairly easy angle to take when deaths are low, but I suspect these people will quieten down as deaths shoot up over the next few weeks.

Edited October 8, 2020 by eFestivals

[st dan]

18 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Whilst some of that might be true, I don't think it's a zero sum game.  Maybe some in their twenties are going to have loads of mates round instead of going to the pub, but those living with their parents aren't going to be allowed to throw parties.  Similarly, I live with a diabetic tee-totaller and a 7 year old (who is also tee-total). I'm not going to be having people round instead of going to the pub.

I'm not sure how old you are, but at my age, in my forties it's much more hassle to have people round than to go to the pub.  And normally when I go out it's with people in my bubble anyway, so socialising outside the house always carries more risk.

Sure, there are plenty of people who aren't as boring as me, but I don't think you'll get an equal displacement of home socialising if you remove the pubs.  Besides, it seemed to work in the national lockdown and in Bolton. 

Not necessarily taking about the larger scale gatherings as a result, I was coming more that the angle of curing boredom as the darker nights set in and the weather turns. If people can’t go out for food/drink (on a weekend in particular after a long week of working from home confined to the four walls of your house), then I think they’re more likely to go around their friends/families houses for a takeaway and a bottle of wine instead. The human interaction element is a big factor in all of this - and the shift in seasons will make compliance harder for some people.

 

[steviewevie]

1 hour ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

I wonder if compliance will always be lower for local lockdowns because people get jealous of the other areas that aren’t in lockdown. Whereas with the national lockdowns there’s a palpable sense that we’re in it together. 

I think there probably is some of that....but at same time those in areas with low numbers of cases will be pissed off their lives are being restricted because of those dirty northern scum.

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, Ayrshire Chris said:

her strategy has failed

it has. She was trying to do a zero-covid strategy, but it was obviously going to fail. 

Covid is too embedded in the UK for that to work. We'd probably have had to of locked down in February to have had any chance of being able to pull that off.

[st dan]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

it's a fairly easy angle to take when deaths are low, but I suspect these people will quieten down as deaths shoot up over the new few weeks.

Yep agreed - that would unfortunately be the drastic justification needed for some to take these lockdown measures more seriously.
Currently new measures are being introduced purely due to positive cases rising, and at the same time we are seeing reports of up to 80% of positives being asymptotic, or not having the three main symptoms. I don’t think reports like that are helping at all - rather they drive the ‘oh well it’s not serious then is it!’ attitudes that more and more are starting to adopt. 

[DeanoL]

7 minutes ago, st dan said:

Not necessarily taking about the larger scale gatherings as a result, I was coming more that the angle of curing boredom as the darker nights set in and the weather turns. If people can’t go out for food/drink (on a weekend in particular after a long week of working from home confined to the four walls of your house), then I think they’re more likely to go around their friends/families houses for a takeaway and a bottle of wine instead. 

But that still seems safer than going to the pub. They're going to be near a lot fewer people, and likely have the same people they see nearly every time.

They'll also likely have the option to keep 2m distance, which you don't really in a pub if you're seated at the same table.

House parties will be an issue for sure, but those same people hosting house parties of 7+ people were already meeting in pubs in groups of 7+ people.

[steviewevie]

Covid: more than 80% of positive UK cases in study had no core symptoms

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/08/more-than-80-positive-cases-in-covid-study-had-no-core-symptoms

[Ozanne]

8 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I think there probably is some of that....but at same time those in areas with low numbers of cases will be pissed off their lives are being restricted because of those dirty northern scum.

I live in the South with relatively low cases, but if we need to go into national restrictions because another area of the country is struggling then I’m fine with that as we do all need to show support and be there for the whole country. Even if it’s just like this. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

3 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

But that still seems safer than going to the pub. They're going to be near a lot fewer people, and likely have the same people they see nearly every time.

They'll also likely have the option to keep 2m distance, which you don't really in a pub if you're seated at the same table.

House parties will be an issue for sure, but those same people hosting house parties of 7+ people were already meeting in pubs in groups of 7+ people.

I’m sure the data shows that’s not the case

[Ayrshire Chris]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

it has. She was trying to do a zero-covid strategy, but it was obviously going to fail. 

Covid is too embedded in the UK for that to work. We'd probably have had to of locked down in February to have had any chance of being able to pull that off.

The levels of non compliance to the two households mixing regulation in Scotland has been staggering in the urban areas. Families continued to meet, house gatherings and parties and parks. A friend who is a policeman was overwhelmed with calls to such gatherings. Yet sturgeon tried to portray it as a success. The elimination strategy was never going to work. Now quiet pubs in semi rural locations with strict adherence to sanitising etc are being penalised. 

[mcshed]

Just now, Fuzzy Afro said:

I’m sure the data shows that’s not the case

The data says more transmission is happening in homes, but not necessarily  that meeting in the pub is safer. More transmission could well be happening in homes simply because many more people are visiting peoples homes.

[st dan]

7 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

But that still seems safer than going to the pub. They're going to be near a lot fewer people, and likely have the same people they see nearly every time.

They'll also likely have the option to keep 2m distance, which you don't really in a pub if you're seated at the same table.

But that’s not the case is it? If so why were households banned from mixing weeks before shutting pubs? And there is no way people are social distancing inside homes. And if this is the case, then why on Earth are they putting misery on millions of people by stopping them seeing their closest family?

I have only been in a few pubs since all of this began, but can say that have been brilliantly managed and I couldn’t have felt much safer in there. 

Edited October 8, 2020 by st dan

[DeanoL]

2 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

I’m sure the data shows that’s not the case

The data shows if someone with COVID goes to a pub, it's less likely to spread to everyone in the pub, than if someone with COVID lives in a house, that it'll spread to everyone living in the house.

That doesn't make pubs safer.

[DeanoL]

1 minute ago, st dan said:

But that’s not the case is it? If so why were households banned from mixing weeks before shutting pubs?

The economy.

Quote

I have only been in a few pubs since all of this began, but can say that have been brilliantly managed and I couldn’t have felt much safer in there. 

On the rare occasions we have had visitors to our house we've practiced social distancing to a better degree than it's been done in pubs. If you feel safer in a pub with 40 people, most of whom you don't know and have no control over their behaviour, than you do having 3 of your own friends round your own home, then honestly you're doing something wrong with your home!

[st dan]

Just now, DeanoL said:

The economy.

Exactly the point - if it’s purely down to this issue alone (which it increasingly appears it is) then why should people go without seeing their parents, children, grandchildren etc. The most important things in people’s lives. No wonder people aren’t sticking to the rules is it! 

[steviewevie]

 

[FestivalJamie]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

 

Is this an actual post? 172k likes? Wtf!

[st dan]

3 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

On the rare occasions we have had visitors to our house we've practiced social distancing to a better degree than it's been done in pubs. If you feel safer in a pub with 40 people, most of whom you don't know and have no control over their behaviour, than you do having 3 of your own friends round your own home, then honestly you're doing something wrong with your home!

And the times I’ve been to the pubs near me they have all had a member of staff arranging seating on arrival, complete table service and I have had no interaction with anybody else in there. I have only been with my wife (and for food with my 1 year old child on occasion) so we haven’t been mixing. Compare that to when I’ve been round my parents, there has been no distancing at all there.
The point I’m making is that if you take away the option of pubs/restaurants, then more people will end up visiting others homes just for something to do if nothing else. They are long, dark days in autumn/winter! 

[Crazyfool01]

12 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I live in the South with relatively low cases, but if we need to go into national restrictions because another area of the country is struggling then I’m fine with that as we do all need to show support and be there for the whole country. Even if it’s just like this. 

me too ... and our cases in the south are rising  rapidly too .... so we cant forget that comparatively we have lower numbers but my area has now gone over the old 40 cases per 100,000 limit which in the old days .... would have meant some kind of intervention .... now because we are comparing with horrendous numbers in the North nothing will happen ... and our numbers will slowly catch up ... because in the news we get comparisons of us and the north .... which leads to the sod it its not to bad attitude 

[fatyeti24]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

That's amongst the maddest things he's ever tweeted.

[squirrelarmy]

1 minute ago, fatyeti24 said:

That's amongst the maddest things he's ever tweeted.

He’s delusional, take him to the infirmary. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

11 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

The economy.

On the rare occasions we have had visitors to our house we've practiced social distancing to a better degree than it's been done in pubs. If you feel safer in a pub with 40 people, most of whom you don't know and have no control over their behaviour, than you do having 3 of your own friends round your own home, then honestly you're doing something wrong with your home!

But of those 40 people, 34 of them aren’t on your table and are at a table that’s a safe distance away from yours such that even if they have the virus, they aren’t spreading it to you.

 

If you have people round your house there is way more likely to be hugging etc

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, squirrelarmy said:

He’s delusional, take him to the infirmary. 

theres no CAPITAL letters ... its not him ... or he dictated it .... 

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

But of those 40 people, 34 of them aren’t on your table and are at a table that’s a safe distance away from yours such that even if they have the virus, they aren’t spreading it to you.

 

If you have people round your house there is way more likely to be hugging etc

have you ever been drunk in a pub or seen people at 10pm kicking out time ? im not a hugger by nature and I can quite easily resist hugging my parents with a deadly virus about at their house !!