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When will this shit end?


Chrisp1986

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1 minute ago, BobWillis2 said:

Is this a thing? 
 

How can anybody go to Glastonbury and then say “Let’s not do that again, let’s go to Leeds festival next year instead” 

 

Surely once you’ve been to Glastonbury you realise that you aren’t getting value for money at the other major festivals. 

You would have thought so wouldn’t you? I have never not wanted to go back but apparently a lot of people do only do it once or a few times… 

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2 hours ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Havors - aka 'I'm alright Jack' who thinks people who are not him are irrelevant.

Selfish, thoughtless and generally spiteful.

Too many of that sort around - and a fair few on here.

Oh now your going ad hominem!? brilliant! ... totally ignorant. 

Tell me how you determine you know me and that im selfish thoughtless and spiteful??? If you cant prove that then I expect an apology. I will be waiting. Cheers.

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2 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

 

I come back to the point - the number of people in your mates position are extremely small and they have faced these issues pre-2020.  This isn't new to him - the risks and stakes have always been high.  I don't think its fair or reasonable for continued lockdown of society in the name of so very few people.

I keep wondering this when I see immunocompromised people mentioned. What did they do before covid? Particularly in winter and especially during bad flu seasons? 
 

I don’t know anybody that suffers with this so it’s a genuine question borne out of ignorance. 
 

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5 minutes ago, BobWillis2 said:

Is this a thing? 
 

How can anybody go to Glastonbury and then say “Let’s not do that again, let’s go to Leeds festival next year instead” 

 

Surely once you’ve been to Glastonbury you realise that you aren’t getting value for money at the other major festivals. 

Yeah for me other festivals are an added bonus - and for me a lot of the time are about the music only, whereas glastonbury has so much more than that plus clashes plus distance making it hard or unappealing to see everyone you want. I usually do glastonbury alongside the best lineup for me where I can watch 8 or 9 bands per day and do nothing else

The idea of not going to glastonbury when it's on makes me feel very upset!

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1 minute ago, Barry Fish said:

I used to go VFestival...  Went many times...  Then did Glastonbury and never went to anywhere but Glastonbury.

I don't know how you go back 😛 

me too haha! many times! The only way back to a normal festival is if its as well as Glastonbury or Glastonbury is not on. Latitude on wednesday with Oxfam, cant wait! 

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7 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

I used to go VFestival...  Went many times...  Then did Glastonbury and never went to anywhere but Glastonbury.

I don't know how you go back 😛 

Experience not so great but the lineups were amazing at times. Got to see so much over one weekend and also quite a lot of variety and random pop acts you wouldn't normally go to. I loved V 

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1 hour ago, gooner1990 said:

My work have just sent an email round saying that despite restrictions being lifted from Monday face masks and social distancing will still apply when on the premises.

 

Had a similar email from my work. Masks will be optional from Monday. Those who are more vulnerable can request extra precautions if required. 

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9 minutes ago, Havors said:

me too haha! many times! The only way back to a normal festival is if its as well as Glastonbury or Glastonbury is not on. Latitude on wednesday with Oxfam, cant wait! 

I think missing out on Glastonbury too - we've got Muse in Mallorca in mind for if we're unsuccessful in the resale(s) - that's Glastonbury Friday so a full escape if possible 

Edited by efcfanwirral
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2 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

The vaccine reduces the illness to something more like a cold for the vast majority.

You don't walk around fearing measles do you ?

You are either trolling or being intentionally ignorant of the point.

If there was a measles outbreak and I had a much higher chance of getting measles for the next month or so, yeah I'd probably avoid people a bit until the wave had gone away. I mean, in the old times I regularly travelled to London for work - when I was going to be going on holiday I'd try and avoid as much as I could having to go in the week before because I didn't want to catch a cold on the tube and have it ruin the first half of my holiday.

Maybe you never think about stuff like that but plenty of us do!

1 hour ago, BobWillis2 said:

Of course and that’s fine. Everyone is free to go at their own pace. 
Deanos confirmation bias that everything not sold out and every pub not full means that lots of people must feel the same way as him and be too nervous to go out is bullshit. 

It might be confirmation bias still, but the polls coming out over the past week about how comfortable people are and how many want to keep masks seems to suggest that there's a lot more people like me and a lot less like you than we both thought, to be honest. I'd always personally thought the mask vs no mask split would be like 30-70 in favour of no maskers, I was amazed at the poll that put it the other way around. Even if that poll is well off the mark, it's certainly not some tiny <10% majority that have concerns.

1 hour ago, Barry Fish said:

You really don't know to what extent thay will be true  

None of the sporting events have struggled at all

Silverstone for example is sold out mostly 

We definitely won't know for certain until we start getting reports on pub and shop numbers over the next few weeks. Going to be interesting for sure. I thought the amount of hesitant people would be low but significant, but signs are suggesting it'll be much higher. I'm not saying I was right all along - I'm thinking now I was wrong. I underestimated it.

1 hour ago, Barry Fish said:

You don't see a return by living in and stoking fear.  Release the restrictions and let the market find a level and grow from that point.  Imposing shit on top of everyone and everything doesn't allow a return to normal.

But that's exactly what they've done! And the market have said to their venues "we're uncomfortable, we'd rather people still wore masks" or "we'd rather you kept table service and distancing". That's the market sorting itself out. Pubs aren't choosing to keep this stuff because they think it might be fun. It's because they've spoken to customers, they've done surveys, and they've made the calculation it'll be more profitable one way or the other.

I'm sure there might be one or two making a choice out of strongly held personal beliefs one way or another, but the vast majority will be making a choice based on "how do I make the most money?"

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3 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Yeah it didn't get a fair rep really.  Some of the customers could be a bit scummy but nothing more than you see on the average night out.  As you say the line ups where great.

Highlight was We Come 1 by Faithless - will never forget that night 😄 

Up until the last few years the crowd was nothing compared to what I saw at Leeds Festival! 

Which year was that? I did 04 to 15, missed just 07. Muse headlining my first festival in 04 was special for me, as was seeing oasis for the first time in 05. And radiohead's greatest hits set in 06. 

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15 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

It might be confirmation bias still, but the polls coming out over the past week about how comfortable people are and how many want to keep masks seems to suggest that there's a lot more people like me and a lot less like you than we both thought, to be honest. I'd always personally thought the mask vs no mask split would be like 30-70 in favour of no maskers, I was amazed at the poll that put it the other way around. Even if that poll is well off the mark, it's certainly not some tiny <10% majority that have concerns.

 

I’ve not said it’s <10% to my knowledge. I certainly don’t think it’s as high as polls suggest. Polls are easily skewed based on the types of people that are asked and the avenues used to connect with those people. 

Most people I interact with on a daily basis (from all ages and walks of life) are happy to go back to normal and do away with social distancing and masks, that’s also some confirmation bias if you like but I can only base my expectations by what I see and hear out in the real world. 
 

Time will tell who is right and who is wrong but the examples you gave are certainly not indicative of people’s fears or hesitations. Not everything is black and white. 

 

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Going to put this out there… do you think there will be measures / guidance in place going forward for people with extreme vulnerability to COVID? For example permanent WFH / a sort of reverse of a COVID passport… almost a new disability going forward for those who need it?

What is becoming apparent is that a very small number of people (as they share it) are probably unable to ever go back into society again by the levels of vulnerability being shared at the moment. Because if we did remain locked down to cater to people like this we’d be in a lockdown forever?

 

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1 minute ago, Matt42 said:

Going to put this out there… do you think there will be measures / guidance in place going forward for people with extreme vulnerability to COVID? For example permanent WFH / a sort of reverse of a COVID passport… almost a new disability going forward for those who need it?

What is becoming apparent is that a very small number of people (as they share it) are probably unable to ever go back into society again by the levels of vulnerability being shared at the moment. Because if we did remain locked down to cater to people like this we’d be in a lockdown forever?

 

Makes me sick that shit. Even if you dont agree and you think she is being overly cautious where the fuck do people get off mocking her? If she wants to do whatever she wants to do then leave her to it. 

Arseholes. Just like the ones on the opposite side of the debate. 

As for special dispensation for clinically vulnerable I think it would be a brilliant idea and should be encouraged. 

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3 hours ago, DeanoL said:

Saw a comedy gig the other night that was offering a choice between regular seating on one side of the room and socially distanced seating on the other. Was a clever approach.

(And my name is in my username and I don't think there's many UK enthusiasts with the same first name...)

To be honest, that sounds a bit like smoking and non-smoking areas.

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6 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Or if something else happens, like dropping all restrictions on Monday...

Haha maybe. If you have a read of the other twitter post I put up, there is good reason to think that the models have completely underestimated phase 3 mobility and that phase 4 has a good chance of not being much different than we have had the past month anyway. 

I mean look at the scenes all through the euros... not sure how it could get any worse than that? I think the vaccine wall will cause us to peak sooner rather than later. 

 

Added the link:

 

 

Edited by Havors
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1 minute ago, Havors said:

Haha maybe. If you have a read of the other twitter post I put up, there is good reason to think that the models have completely underestimated phase 3 mobility and that phase 4 has a good chance of not being much different than we have had the past month anyway. 

I mean look at the scenes all through the euros... not sure how it could get any worse than that? I think the vaccine wall will cause us to peak sooner rather than later. 

I'm still four pages behind!

But yes, it wouldn't surprise me if this step isn't as big as the last one.  I'm still pretty convinced indoor hospitality is the big restriction.  Sure, nightclubs transmit more, but there are fewer nightclubs than pubs+restaurants+softplay+swimming pools (Etc)

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1 minute ago, stuartbert two hats said:

I'm still four pages behind!

But yes, it wouldn't surprise me if this step isn't as big as the last one.  I'm still pretty convinced indoor hospitality is the big restriction.  Sure, nightclubs transmit more, but there are fewer nightclubs than pubs+restaurants+softplay+swimming pools (Etc)

I personally think it’s indoor household mixing. Although that’s not really a policeable restriction and it was definitely going on during stage 2 (and to a lesser extent during stage 1 and even the lockdown) 

 

 

I really struggle to think of a time in the pandemic when cases have been falling despite indoor household mixing being allowed. 

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Just now, Barry Fish said:

The average 18 to 30 year old isn't filling out polls...

They are at the football, cricket and theme parks etc - and they are rammed with no social distancing and very few fucks beings given.

Ive never been asked questions for a poll... and i don't know anybody else who has in my circle. Maybe they just avoid Liverpool? 😄 

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23 minutes ago, Havors said:

Makes me sick that shit. Even if you dont agree and you think she is being overly cautious where the fuck do people get off mocking her? If she wants to do whatever she wants to do then leave her to it. 

Arseholes. Just like the ones on the opposite side of the debate. 

As for special dispensation for clinically vulnerable I think it would be a brilliant idea and should be encouraged. 

Yes I agree - I think that special treatment for the clinically vulnerable should be the next step. I think we should be mindful of those vulnerable by not necessarily chucking them in the deep end by forcing them to reintegrating into society.

I.e - if you’re fit and healthy live your life as normal, but there should be special measures to help those who can’t do that. I.e work from home / home deliveries. If people who are very vulnerable need to stay at home permanently there should be measures to help them. 

Edited by Matt42
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4 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

What an absolute whopper of a call.  

I will never condone people laughing in her face about her wearing a mask and trying to keep 2 meters distance.  That is her personal decision to take.  Let's take that out of the call because none of us are going to be okay with that.

But she declares herself as vulnerable and terrified of the virus - and she clearly is terrified.  Unless she can't take the vaccine I think she needs some counselling and support in getting over those fears.  They are probably largely unjustified and unbalanced.

As for the school closing just in case - madness.  

Is there an actual cohort of people who are so vulnerable they they don’t even get to take the vaccine at all? For all the talk of immunosuppressed people, I thought it was just less likely to work (I saw a stat that they’re something like 74% effective as opposed to 90%+ in the general population)

 

We can’t go shutting society down to protect a small group of people especially when the jab is working relatively well for this group. 

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3 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Is there an actual cohort of people who are so vulnerable they they don’t even get to take the vaccine at all? 

It's not so much that there's a group of people that are so vulnerable they can't get it (there may be some who are very frail and it's not considered suitable at the moment), but the only listed contraindications currently are those with either a history of severe allergic reactions to injectable therapies/vaccines or those that have an immediate allergic reaction to these vaccines (and are recommended not to get the second shot). There are also precautions for those with certain underlying autoimmune diseases. In some cases, the allergy is related to specific components of the vaccine (so, people with a PEG allergy for example could switch from the mRNA vaccines to the J&J one), in others, their allergy is anything injected. It's not a massive amount of people, but they exist. The current contraindications and precautions list is the interim guidance for their use, as we accrue more data that could always change (you've seen the guidance change a number of times over the last while, especially for the adenoviral vectored ones). 

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7 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

We can’t go shutting society down to protect a small group of people especially when the jab is working relatively well for this group. 

True enough, but neither should they be left to suffer. Even at the best of times, I think there are some in society on the edge of real anxiety and mental distress, and just about holding on. Many will have been tipped over the edge by the last couple of years, and as a society we need to make sure they’re cared for. 

When it’s impractical to keep life locked down for the rest of us, I think there should be some kind of support infrastructure and space for the vulnerable to cope. I’m not clever enough to know what that looks like, but I’d happily contribute towards a charity working to provide it, at the very least as a gesture of appreciation for the sacrifice they’re making so I can enjoy more freedoms. 

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6 minutes ago, kalifire said:

True enough, but neither should they be left to suffer. Even at the best of times, I think there are some in society on the edge of real anxiety and mental distress, and just about holding on. Many will have been tipped over the edge by the last couple of years, and as a society we need to make sure they’re cared for. 

Equally there is a sizeable number of people who have been unable to do the things that help them with their mental health because they’ve been shut down 
 

There’s always two sides to a coin. 

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10 minutes ago, kalifire said:

True enough, but neither should they be left to suffer. Even at the best of times, I think there are some in society on the edge of real anxiety and mental distress, and just about holding on. Many will have been tipped over the edge by the last couple of years, and as a society we need to make sure they’re cared for. 

When it’s impractical to keep life locked down for the rest of us, I think there should be some kind of support infrastructure and space for the vulnerable to cope. I’m not clever enough to know what that looks like, but I’d happily contribute towards a charity working to provide it, at the very least as a gesture of appreciation for the sacrifice they’re making so I can enjoy more freedoms. 

I think they need to be kept at home if they are as vulnerable as they say they are. I think they should probably have heavy restrictions on where they can go and what they can do. Because the ordinary world is too much of a risk for them.

Making the entire world stop for them is the disproportionate response. The best thing to do is to treat them how they need to be treated and make allowances with work, and activities / events they are allowed to attend. Just like people with heart conditions are banned from rollercoasters we should probably ban them from pubs and supermarkets. This is on the basis that they are as vulnerable as they claim to be.

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