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When will this shit end?


Chrisp1986

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3 minutes ago, mcshed said:

Shops barely challenge anyone now, no retail staff are going to get involved in a fight once they are only encouraged. There will be signs up and that's it.

The sunflowers and exemptions make it not challengeable anyway and there will be more people ignoring it from Monday unfortunately… they will be mandated again for the winter if not before that … ive seen several colleagues over recent weeks become exempt now they are double jabbed 

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14 minutes ago, mcshed said:

Shops barely challenge anyone now, no retail staff are going to get involved in a fight once they are only encouraged. There will be signs up and that's it.

No true, but today they can politely ask you to wear one now. I’ve seen it many times in many different shops, chemists, walk in centres etc. And people usually oblige to avoid confrontation from what I’ve seen. 

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58 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

Sorry to hear that mate, hope you make a quick recovery!

 

The scenes on Wembley way we're a total disgrace over the weekend. Makes me feel little sympathy for the loss.

Thank you.

 

Couldn't agree more, a total shambles of a day that I've written in more detail on the football thread, but such a difference from the previous two matches id been to it was like London had been taken over by mob rule. 

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18 minutes ago, Homer said:

Last time I went to the gym (Sunday morning), I was the only person wearing a mask when moving between equipment. No one has really been bothering all along though, to be fair.

Yeah I’m a pretty stringent mask wearer but I quickly realised that I was one of very few abiding by it at the gym from the get-go and have basically given up now. I kind of get it - you’re in a place where, despite the cleaning down, you’re constantly touching stuff other people have touched and sweated all over so it’s a bit of a lost cause and gamble if you’re choosing to go to the gym at all. I just make sure to clean stuff down as best possible and give those that don’t a little side eye when I can. 

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31 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

They always said cases were gonna rise as we unlocked and now cases are rising as we unlock and everyone is panicking. I don't get it. Opening is constantly getting pushed down the road by some on here even tho they said they supported the one month delay and said we should open in July. Did you expect cases to be dropping by now?

 

This is my thinking as well. The mood music seems to have changed dramatically in the last few days despite no significant change in the data.

Undoubtedly not helped by the government's flip flopping yesterday.

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Train operators and major bus firms in England rule out making mask wearing compulsory after 19 July

No domestic train operators or major bus and coach firms will require passengers to wear face coverings on services in England from Monday, PA Media reports. PA says:

Transport companies have the power to turn away customers who refuse to cover their noses and mouths even when the legal requirement is lifted on 19 July.

Yesterday Boris Johnson said “we expect and recommend” that people continue to wear face coverings in “crowded and enclosed spaces ... such as on public transport”.

Cross-Channel train firm Eurostar and airlines such as British Airways, easyJet and Ryanair will continue to require passengers to wear face coverings from 19 July.

But train industry body the Rail Delivery Group (RDG) announced that all domestic train operators, such as Avanti West Coast, TransPennine Express and Southeastern, will not go that far.

An RDG spokesman said: “Rail companies will ask people to follow the government guidance and, out of respect for others, wear face coverings if an indoor setting is busy.

“Train travel is low-risk, with the majority of carriages well ventilated by air conditioning systems or by doors and windows.”

The Confederation of Passenger Transport (CPT), which represents major bus and coach operators such as National Express and Megabus, announced that its members will not mandate the wearing of face coverings from Monday.

A CPT spokesman said: “We expect that many people, especially in busy places, will follow the prime minister’s call to continue to wear a face covering as a courtesy to others.

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33 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

I don’t think this nightclub thing is gonna go well unfortunately … they are often dark hot sweaty places with poor ventilation and it’s gonna be too late for them to get any covid app certification in place for 6 days time .. there are going to be some big outbreaks and the govt can then put the blame on clubs ( who are obviously desperate to reopen understandably and will do whatever on sun/mon …. Rates are really gonna rocket and staff will be off sick all over the place …. I feel sorry for staff that are very likely to get it and will have no choice but to work !! What has happened to herd immunity @Toilet Duck is it still possible ? It just seems these rates are just going to keep climbing … 

So, with herd immunity, the infectiousness of the agent you want immunity from impacts on what the threshold needs to be. With the latest variant being substantially more infectious than the original flavour, that threshold is a good bit higher than it originally was, and probably requires at least adolescents to be fully vaccinated (or infected) before it is reached. If 100% of >18s were vaccinated, it might be close, but I don't think so to be honest and I think at least 12-18 will need to be vaccinated if there is to be any chance of reaching it. The other aspect that determines whether herd immunity is reached is how the vaccines perform in terms of preventing transmission (poorer sterilising activity requires a higher % of people vaccinated to get the same effect). I've said before that I think we are over-estimating this and as soon as we see "super-spreading" events restart (even with fully vaccinated individuals only present), that we might be surprised as to how many cases can emerge from such encounters.

But, it really depends on what vaccination does in terms of the more serious outcomes. Coronaviruses are pretty adept and circulating but not doing too much damage. This one was introduced into an entirely immunologically naive global population and has caused considerable damage. But how much damage it causes when the vast majority of the vulnerable have the protection of a vaccine (not to stop them picking it up, but to clear it quickly when they do) really is the key question. Does it make this virus more like the circulating coronaviruses (maybe a bit nastier, somewhere around a bad flu), where neutralising antibody titres wane each year and people pick them up seasonally, but most don't suffer too much as once their immune response cranks up and they clear it before there's any major problems? That's where most of the scientific community think we end up. We don't know that it will work out like that (the missing ingredient is time, we simply don't know as we haven't been able to observe for long enough), so in the meantime, the safest option is to continue to top up protection periodically for the most vulnerable (at least) and use the vaccines to push us towards the equilibrium we will eventually reach with the virus (and it's possible that requires top ups for everyone for a few years).

Herd immunity isn't necessarily a goal to be reached, it's simply where we end up naturally at the end of every pandemic...what that herd immunity looks like isn't uniform. I don't see anything in the biology of this virus that suggests we can eradicate it (though I'll be delighted if I'm wrong) and I have a feeling that herd immunity in terms of controlling cases might not be achievable either (but again, I'll be happy to be wrong), but vaccine-controlled severe disease, hospitalisations and deaths looks eminently achievable and is what I would have been happy with at the outset (it just appears that it requires a higher level of full vaccination to get to that point with the least amount of damage...I mean, it could be fine, the critical threshold in terms of severe outcomes might already have been reached, it doesn't look like it to me just yet, but it's not far off...rather oddly, the Imperial models that spooked the government again this time had full vaccination being reached in December 2021 (hence the advice to open up now rather than later), which seems overly pessimistic, but maybe they really do think it will take until then to finish...maybe it included <18s?).  As rates climb now, they will eventually hit a wall of immunity (either natural or vaccine-induced), certainly from severe outcomes, how many people are outside the wall is the big unknown (it's difficult to estimate and not simply a matter of counting vaccinated individuals and recovered individuals and subtracting from the general population). 

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1 hour ago, mcshed said:

Shops barely challenge anyone now, no retail staff are going to get involved in a fight once they are only encouraged. There will be signs up and that's it.

I stayed in Wembley after the final on Sunday, and yesterday morning I went to get a coffee at Pret a Manger before getting my train home and looked round whilst queing and realised that apart from the staff I was the only other person with a mask on out of about 25 customers.

No one seemed bothered by it!

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1 minute ago, gooner1990 said:

I stayed in Wembley after the final on Sunday, and yesterday morning I went to get a coffee at Pret a Manger before getting my train home and looked round whilst queing and realised that apart from the staff I was the only other person with a mask on out of about 25 customers.

No one seemed bothered by it!

I guess that’s what will happen in cities where it’s a sea of annonomous faces ? Maybe lower personal responsibility to protect others that aren’t know to people ? 

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Just now, crazyfool1 said:

I guess that’s what will happen in cities where it’s a sea of annonomous faces ? Maybe lower personal responsibility to protect others that aren’t know to people ? 

No idea mate, but where I live everyone still put the masks on (well until next Monday at least)

Train home was the same...a lot of people not bothering anymore.

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1 minute ago, gooner1990 said:

No idea mate, but where I live everyone still put the masks on (well until next Monday at least)

Train home was the same...a lot of people not bothering anymore.

Monday will be interesting… there were some wearing them before they became mandated … I think more than that will continue to wear them … definately for me shops and public transport … unless people are miles away …. I’m not sure the point in wearing one when I enter and exit the gym and changing room so may not wear it there 

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1 minute ago, crazyfool1 said:

Monday will be interesting… there were some wearing them before they became mandated … I think more than that will continue to wear them … definately for me shops and public transport … unless people are miles away …. I’m not sure the point in wearing one when I enter and exit the gym and changing room so may not wear it there 

I have to get a park and ride bus into Oxford for work....its usually pretty quiet when I get on it at 7.30am so may make a choice if there are only a couple of others not to wear it...coming back at 4pm its usually busy so will probably still put one on.

I also have to put it on to even go to the toilet at work so hopefully I won't have to do that anymore..a lot of people are still working from home so its fairly quiet at the moment anyway.

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13 minutes ago, gooner1990 said:

I stayed in Wembley after the final on Sunday, and yesterday morning I went to get a coffee at Pret a Manger before getting my train home and looked round whilst queing and realised that apart from the staff I was the only other person with a mask on out of about 25 customers.

No one seemed bothered by it!

In my shop up here in COVID riddled Edinburgh I'd say mask wearing is still over 50% of those that don't some bother with the sunflower lanyards but most don't and nobody is questioned on it.

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32 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

The concept trains are well ventilated is laughable to be honest.

Yeah, they come off as bit of a twat by saying trains have doors on them so it's well ventilated. I can't wait for rush hour with people rammed in asking for the door to be left open when its going at 100 mph.

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1 minute ago, mcshed said:

In my shop up here in COVID riddled Edinburgh I'd say mask wearing is still over 50% of those that don't some bother with the sunflower lanyards but most don't and nobody is questioned on it.

I’d say 70-80 % but dropping … in mine 

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1 hour ago, Barry Fish said:

I think there will be a totally justified voting with your feet in the coming weeks.

I think its fair enough if people shop in places that suit how they wish to go forward.

Sainsbury already said they will not be mandating masks.  So I will shop here. 

Waterstones will want you to wear them so I will shop online (which is a shame because I do like to browse books).

But I think its fair enough.  They will both win and lose customers no doubt.

 

What will be interesting to see is what shopping centres do.  For example the Trafford Centre.  That will defacto  overrules individual shops.

 

What a strange hill to die on. 'IM NOT GOING TO SHOP AT THIS PLACE, BECAUSE THEY ARE PUTTING SOME MEASURES IN THAT THEY FEEL KEEPS THE STAFF AND CUSTOMERS SAFER!'

 

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1 hour ago, RossTC said:

Thank you.

 

Couldn't agree more, a total shambles of a day that I've written in more detail on the football thread, but such a difference from the previous two matches id been to it was like London had been taken over by mob rule. 

I know a few people that went and punters were trying to pinch tickets as well as tailgate people through the gates.

Some of these little shits deserved to be smacked across the face to be honest. 

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23 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

@Toilet Duck thanks for the response … just struggling with the “end “ bit today … after hearing about some double vaccinated who been ill 

It may help, it may not....................... but the vaccines are 90-94% effective meaning there are 6-10% where they will not stop serious illness. That is why there are double jabbed who are very ill.

Most flu vaccines give 60% efficacy so these are the dogs danglies compared.

I know it is hard to break away from the constant worry - it is normal and natural to have that and anyone who says they don't is simply deluding themselves.

All the double jabbed who are ill or have died that I have read about had underlying conditions or were very old. Just like 99% who die of flu or other stuff each year.

Will I worry  - yes I will. Wil it be odd being in big crowds - yes it will.

Will it all feel 'normal' fairly fast - yes it will. Just like not being in big crowds became normal fast.

The media are on a hype hype hype season now and best ignored. If you want to look at stats then look at the difference between people in hospital day by day as that gives a true indication as it has new arrivals and departures taken into account.

That number is not going up fast, not at all.

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1 hour ago, jannybruck said:

I think it's a little deeper than just freaking out about case numbers, honestly. So many people have got used to restrictions and moulded their life differently, that now lifting them and going back to (at least some sort of) old way feels intimidating and a shock to the system. I don't feel that way, but I get why psychologically many people are reacting like this.

cases have been rising for weeks, and we are still unlocking more...and govt are putting out warnings about daily hospitalisations being in the 1000s and 100s dying every day. Not surprised some people are worried.

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