steviewevie Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, tigger123 said: "Vaccines are our route out of this" is what Hancock said many months ago. What are the scientists so surprised about? This was always the plan, Delta variant or no variant. The vaccines are also far more effective than we ever could have hoped for, so yes we are putting all our eggs in the vaccine basket cos they're bloody good! Variants were always inevitable given the number of Covid cases globally and guess what, they're always going to get more transmissible, as that's what they need to do to survive, especially with downward pressure from the vaccines. yeah...but at same time....the delta variant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zahidf Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 1 minute ago, steviewevie said: yeah...but at same time....the delta variant. You mean the Johnson variant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanoL Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 13 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/07/england-covid-reopening-plan-dangerous-experiment-ministers-told Dr Jacky Davis, an NHS consultant radiologist, said: “In going for what looks like hybrid herd immunity, which was what this government went for in first place and then was slapped down, they are conducting a very dangerous experiment. “We’re concerned about the future of young people and their education as it may be that it will have serious repercussions on their health going forward. It seems very dangerous when it could be stopped by something as minimal as wearing a mask and a degree of social distancing. The government has put all its eggs in the vaccine basket.” Except we can't control it with masks and a degree of social distancing because we're doing that now and it's growing fast. It's definitely an experiment but it was always going to be - someone was going to get people vaxxed and open up first. (My position on this whole thing remains mixed: I still think it's fundamentally unfair that young people are having to take risks without having been fully vaccinated: it's not optional for many, many will be forced back to work - as those in hospitality have been already and I disagreed with that too - and can't feasibly choose to continue to limit their contacts. So I disagree on dropping restrictions on that basis, but from a scientific point of view I think the approach is broadly sensible. From an economic point of view I think the mixed messages "don't wear a mask but wear a mask" are hugely damaging. Telling people it's dangerous enough you should consider wearing a mask, but not insisting other people wear masks, is the worse approach you can take for dealing with social hesitancy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, DeanoL said: Except we can't control it with masks and a degree of social distancing because we're doing that now and it's growing fast. It's definitely an experiment but it was always going to be - someone was going to get people vaxxed and open up first. (My position on this whole thing remains mixed: I still think it's fundamentally unfair that young people are having to take risks without having been fully vaccinated: it's not optional for many, many will be forced back to work - as those in hospitality have been already and I disagreed with that too - and can't feasibly choose to continue to limit their contacts. So I disagree on dropping restrictions on that basis, but from a scientific point of view I think the approach is broadly sensible. From an economic point of view I think the mixed messages "don't wear a mask but wear a mask" are hugely damaging. Telling people it's dangerous enough you should consider wearing a mask, but not insisting other people wear masks, is the worse approach you can take for dealing with social hesitancy) I will think it was a great idea and something I always supported if it works, and will be all told you so if it doesn't. Edited July 7, 2021 by steviewevie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanoL Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 Just now, steviewevie said: I think it will be a great idea and something I always supported if it works, and will be all told you so if it doesn't. I'm sure if cases go up and hospitalisations get to such a level we do need to go back into lockdown, it'll somehow be the fault of the people who kept wearing masks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incident Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Supernintendo Chalmers said: I'm still baffled by why the vaccine figures are so low. Is there a shortage? Have many of the vaccination centres been closed? Fewer volunteers? Or is it purely a lack of uptake now? It's almost entirely uptake. Not had a vaccine? More than 8 weeks since your first dose? Go get one. Edit: Should clarify the image is for Nottingham/shire, but there's similar walk ins available at many (probably most) locations all over the country. Edited July 7, 2021 by incident Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zahidf Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 (edited) Yup Edited July 7, 2021 by zahidf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 32 minutes ago, zahidf said: Yup If opening more leads to higher R, then this means a bigger wave, right? And a bigger wave could mean more damage to people's health (and livelihoods). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zahidf Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, steviewevie said: If opening more leads to higher R, then this means a bigger wave, right? And a bigger wave could mean more damage to people's health (and livelihoods). With schools closed, only so much of an increase in R. And the vaccines also limit the R rate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 1 minute ago, zahidf said: With schools closed, only so much of an increase in R. And the vaccines also limit the R rate Ok.. but the whole argument that cases are rising anyway so may as well open up fully seems flawed to me. I get the arguments about school hols and exit waves in the autumn etc, but then that can be countered with booster jabs and vaxxing kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zahidf Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 5 minutes ago, steviewevie said: So a medium case scenario means no chance of a swamped NHS and a pessimistic one which isn't close to the winters peak of 4000 a day? I can see why they are going ahead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, zahidf said: So a medium case scenario means no chance of a swamped NHS and a pessimistic one which isn't close to the winters peak of 4000 a day? I can see why they are going ahead Hospitals already busy.. especially in some areas (like Manchester) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zahidf Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 Just now, steviewevie said: Hospitals already busy.. especially in some areas (like Manchester) Are we locking down for busy hospitals or a collapsed NHS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 E.g. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zahidf Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, steviewevie said: E.g. Is that why we have restrictions though? Because its to stop people dying in car parks. Not because the NHS is busy. I'd rather we gave them more money tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 1 minute ago, zahidf said: Is that why we have restrictions though? Because its to stop people dying in car parks. Not because the NHS is busy. I'd rather we gave them more money tbh. Well yeah, they definitely need money, but that is fix for mid/long term, this is potentially a short term problem..if hospitals already busy and those projections come true could get messy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zahidf Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, steviewevie said: Well yeah, they definitely need money, but that is fix for mid/long term, this is potentially a short term problem..if hospitals already busy and those projections come true could get messy. Can't they move support and resources from one area to another to mitigate the issue? It seems regional specific rather than all over Restrictions should be a last resort. Not plan A Edited July 7, 2021 by zahidf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozanne Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 1 hour ago, steviewevie said: E.g. It’s this one that worries me. Hopefully he’s wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWillis2 Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 3 hours ago, zahidf said: So a medium case scenario means no chance of a swamped NHS and a pessimistic one which isn't close to the winters peak of 4000 a day? I can see why they are going ahead Their projections have also been shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FakeEmpire Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 We are talking about a different issue here though; an underfunded NHS. We could lockdown for many more months or even years and not fix that problem without electing a different government. It just is not reasonable to enforce tough restrictions on daily lives because the NHS is not being funded properly. As a country, we should not accept that. The correct response is to fund the NHS properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zahidf Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 5 minutes ago, FakeEmpire said: We are talking about a different issue here though; an underfunded NHS. We could lockdown for many more months or even years and not fix that problem without electing a different government. It just is not reasonable to enforce tough restrictions on daily lives because the NHS is not being funded properly. As a country, we should not accept that. The correct response is to fund the NHS properly. Yup. Accepting restrictions because of underfunding is perfect for the Tory govt. Such the fun out of like except work and not bother giving money to the NHS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 8 minutes ago, FakeEmpire said: We are talking about a different issue here though; an underfunded NHS. We could lockdown for many more months or even years and not fix that problem without electing a different government. It just is not reasonable to enforce tough restrictions on daily lives because the NHS is not being funded properly. As a country, we should not accept that. The correct response is to fund the NHS properly. Yes, and social care...needs loads of money...and where's it all going to come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfAnIdiot Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 Time to fund the NHS to bud the surge capacity that it needs. Why isn't Labour focusing on this rather than unrealistic and unachievable building ventilation issues. No fucking clue. Angry and dissapointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, HalfAnIdiot said: Time to fund the NHS to bud the surge capacity that it needs. Why isn't Labour focusing on this rather than unrealistic and unachievable building ventilation issues. No fucking clue. Angry and dissapointed. That sort of stuff is for future manifestos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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