When will this shit end?

[jannybruck]

One thing I've not really seen talked about is the impact this is going to have on travel, because I think lots of people will assume this is just going to be fine and they'll be able to jet off wherever this summer. Are EU and International countries going to want us anywhere near them when we're serving up a cool 100k cases a day? Regardless of vaccination status, that's going to give at least a few of them cold feet.

[tigger123]

5 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

Personally, still think it's fucking reckless when 50% of the population are not fully vaccinated. This proper opening could have been pushed back to August once we had everyone done - but hey ho I guess.

Almost pre empting down votes from certain ividduals to this post.

We won’t have everyone done in August, Boris said today it would be mid September until everyone had been offered a second dose hence why they’re doing it now rather than the month where the weather starts to turn

[MrBarry465]

1 minute ago, jannybruck said:

One thing I've not really seen talked about is the impact this is going to have on travel, because I think lots of people will assume this is just going to be fine and they'll be able to jet off wherever this summer. Are EU and International countries going to want us anywhere near them when we're serving up a cool 100k cases a day? Regardless of vaccination status, that's going to give at least a few of them cold feet.

I don't think so no, if our cases go rampant (which they will) I expect that we will be on a red list for most countries, double jab or not. 

Quite a few of the ratlickers gonna be in for a surprise. 

[efcfanwirral]

9 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

 

8 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

Put those two threads together and you can see your future in Manchester it seems...

[tigger123]

2 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

I don't think so no, if our cases go rampant (which they will) I expect that we will be on a red list for most countries, double jab or not. 

Quite a few of the ratlickers gonna be in for a surprise. 

Tbh I fully expect the EU to stop travel as much as they can for a while, as cases will become rampant here as you say, especially given the want by some in the EU (Macron) to be seen to be being strict with the UK following Brexit. However eventually some countries that rely heavily on tourism will buck the trend (Greece, Spain spring to mind) so I imagine they will open up after an initial attempt at a hardline unified approach by all EU member states driven by Merkel and Macron 

[efcfanwirral]

1 minute ago, tigger123 said:

Tbh I fully expect the EU to stop travel as much as they can for a while, as cases will become rampant here as you say, especially given the want by some in the EU (Macron) to be seen to be being strict with the UK following Brexit. However eventually some countries that rely heavily on tourism will buck the trend (Greece, Spain spring to mind) so I imagine they will open up after an initial attempt at a hardline unified approach by all EU member states driven by Merkel and Macron 

They can always require tests - doesn't have to be as open as w'ed like it (vaccine proof) but they could be taking a pretty big risk by doing so 

Edited July 5, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[Matt42]

21 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

The CEO of Goldman Sachs called WFH an 'aberration', which is a bit extreme.

I just think it’s so bizarre to outright reject it and be kinda aggressive about it. It just stinks of insecure management that refuse to trust their employees or treat them like adults.

I’ve worked in environments that could be seen as toxic, and this is always the case. Irrational fears that your employees can’t be trusted without your supervision, to be point where the boss won’t even take a holiday.

[Crazyfool01]

6 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

 

Put those two threads together and you can see your future in Manchester it seems...

not just manchester .... the way cases are going ... doubling every 9 days ...... even if the hospitalisations are low,  huge case numbers has massive implications for businesses with staffing levels and high levels of virus doesnt exactly encourage everyone back out in floods .... Europe still seems to be doing well on the case front doesnt it ? 

[MrBarry465]

3 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

I just think it’s so bizarre to outright reject it and be kinda aggressive about it. It just stinks of insecure management that refuse to trust their employees or treat them like adults.

I’ve worked in environments that could be seen as toxic, and this is always the case. Irrational fears that your employees can’t be trusted without your supervision, to be point where the boss won’t even take a holiday.

Yeah agreed, the good news is most progressive companys allowing people to make their own minds up on what they do RE WFH.

[Matt42]

1 minute ago, MrBarry465 said:

Yeah agreed, the good news is most progressive companys allowing people to make their own minds up on what they do RE WFH.

The lack of trust is often completely invalid too. I’ve seen colleagues produce absolutely fantastic work, yet the boss hasn’t got a single positive thing to say about them.

Very glad I’m in a much better working environment.

[HalfAnIdiot]

30 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Tech companies and quite relaxed companies yes. But high intense corporate jobs are trying to stop WFH.

(Unless your working with one of these and there’s an outlier).

Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, and most US law firms in the states are pretty much enforcing a return to the office.

Yes this is the whole American workforce but they are some big players.

I get the impression that those companies work on a culture of intense personal competition. The theory being that the 'best' will rise to the top in a dog eat dog environment. That kind of environment probably requires full time (and more) office attendance to develop. 

Their view of 'best' doesn't match mine and that kind of environment is toxic beyond just the office walls. 

[Matt42]

Just now, HalfAnIdiot said:

I get the impression that those companies work on a culture of intense personal competition. The theory being that the 'best' will rise to the top in a dog eat dog environment. That kind of environment probably requires full time (and more) office attendance to develop. 

Their view of 'best' doesn't match mine and that kind of environment is toxic beyond just the office walls. 

Look I work in an industry probably worse for that and it’s true - but I think the truth is that when you’re junior you get this shit handed to you, but once you get experience and start being able to stand on your own two feet you get treated better. 
 

to me it’s an ego trip for senior staff to berate the young. I’m finding though that the new generation of managers are not like this, and hopefully these people will wane out or get slammed by a whistleblower / HR.

They still exist in their thousands in America though.

[Ozanne]

31 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

Personally, still think it's fucking reckless when 50% of the population are not fully vaccinated. This proper opening could have been pushed back to August once we had everyone done - but hey ho I guess.

Almost pre empting down votes from certain ividduals to this post.

It worries me we are opening up fully with only 60 odd % of people fully vaccinated. I don't know why Johnson framed it as 'now or not at all this year' when if we wait just a bit more we'll have pretty much every adult fully vaccinated and as the vaccines are so good that will mean any risk to hospitals and severe illness is so much lower. So whilst it would be Autumn we would have a fully vaccinated population to combat that and enable us to properly open up at that stage.

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

It worries me we are opening up fully with only 60 odd % of people fully vaccinated. I don't know why Johnson framed it as 'now or not at all this year' when if we wait just a bit more we'll have pretty much every adult fully vaccinated and as the vaccines are so good that will mean any risk to hospitals and severe illness is so much lower. So whilst it would be Autumn we would have a fully vaccinated population to combat that and enable us to properly open up at that stage.

Because the pressures on the hospital I'm autumn would be more so the NHS would be at risk

Now, even if hospitalisations go up, it'd be manageable. 

[Ozanne]

Just now, zahidf said:

Because the pressures on the hospital I'm autumn would be more so the NHS would be at risk

Now, even if hospitalisations go up, it'd be manageable. 

Hospitalisations have the potential to go up more now with less people fully vaccinated which in-turn would have a knock on effect to the Autumn. We have a chance to prevent that and open up with a fully vaccinated population, which would be much less of a risk.

[jimmillen]

20 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

I just think it’s so bizarre to outright reject it and be kinda aggressive about it. It just stinks of insecure management that refuse to trust their employees or treat them like adults.

I’ve worked in environments that could be seen as toxic, and this is always the case. Irrational fears that your employees can’t be trusted without your supervision, to be point where the boss won’t even take a holiday.

Yep. Also ties into the absolutely poisonous long hours culture rife in those sectors where people brag about working 90 hours plus a week as if it’s something to be proud of, instead of a recipe for stress, unhappiness and an early grave. 

Wasn’t it Goldman or one of the banks that recently made a big deal about not making employees work on both Saturday and Sunday, like they were god’s gift to employee wellbeing? FFS.

IMO a lot of the CEOs making loud noises about rejecting flexible working see it like they did their time and suffered the misery of it all, so they’ll be damned if any of their employees now get an easier ride. Instead of having a bit of compassion and emotional intelligence to create a healthier working environment. 

[DeanoL]

 

2 hours ago, fraybentos1 said:

Come off it mate. No one has that many breaks! It's simply when your boss isn't in the same room as you can do more of what you want on your computer.

No-one works 100% focused all day in the office either. You chat to colleagues about all sorts in the office. I think for many this forum is the substitute for that.

End of the day bosses don't care as long as the work gets done. 

Or maybe it's just relief from some on here who don't actually do anything productive that they can go back to being seen to be in the office so no-one will start questioning what they actually deliver! 😄

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Hospitalisations have the potential to go up more now with less people fully vaccinated which in-turn would have a knock on effect to the Autumn. We have a chance to prevent that and open up with a fully vaccinated population, which would be much less of a risk.

We already delayed once when we probably didn't have to. The same people asking for more time to vaccinate all the adults would the  switch to asking for more time for the kids and then after winter.

 

If we have this hospitalisation and death rate last March, we would never have had these stupid restrictions. 

[Matt42]

Just now, jimmillen said:

Yep. Also ties into the absolutely poisonous long hours culture rife in those sectors where people brag about working 90 hours plus a week as if it’s something to be proud of, instead of a recipe for stress, unhappiness and an early grave. 

Wasn’t it Goldman or one of the banks that recently made a big deal about not making employees work on both Saturday and Sunday, like they were god’s gift to employee wellbeing? FFS.

IMO a lot of the CEOs making loud noises about rejecting flexible working see it like they did their time and suffered the misery of it all, so they’ll be damned if any of their employees now get an easier ride. Instead of having a bit of compassion and emotional intelligence to create a healthier working environment. 

Yeah extremely progressive working from home policy where employees can work from home two days a week….. on the weekends…

Then again, the culture of GS is a “pump out” model. They know that a lot of the people that work there will tap out after a few years and a whole set of fresh new graduates will be excited to join.

only a slither of people make it beyond 5+ years, and usually those move on before they get too expensive to keep hired.

[Havors]

3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Hospitalisations have the potential to go up more now with less people fully vaccinated which in-turn would have a knock on effect to the Autumn. We have a chance to prevent that and open up with a fully vaccinated population, which would be much less of a risk.

Vallance and Witty disagree with you. 

[Ozanne]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

We already delayed once when we probably didn't have to. The same people asking for more time to vaccinate all the adults would the  switch to asking for more time for the kids and then after winter.

I know it's only my view but I would think we need to get the adults vaccinated, I'm not thinking about getting the kids done. It might not ultra cautious what I'm saying but in my mind it feels like the logical thing to do especially we are fairly close to all adults have 2 doses.

[zahidf]

 

[zahidf]

Just now, Ozanne said:

I know it's only my view but I would think we need to get the adults vaccinated, I'm not thinking about getting the kids done. It might not ultra cautious what I'm saying but in my mind it feels like the logical thing to do especially we are fairly close to all adults have 2 doses.

That's already moving the goalposts from all the vulnerable being protected. 

[Ozanne]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

That's already moving the goalposts from all the vulnerable being protected. 

I haven't moved the goalposts, I'm just saying that's my view on how I feel we should be proceeding.

[zahidf]

Every single country in the world which hasn't closed their borders (like Oz and NZ) will be doing the same as the UK as soon as they to the same death/hospitalisation stage. I certainly don't think we are massively different to most countries in the scheme of things.