When will this shit end?

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, efcfanwirral said:

Tiny chance but maybe if he left his Bluetooth on at home, his neighbour?

That’s what I put me being pinged down to … I had no lengthy contacts … I think the app pinged because of contact with upstairs flat over night 

[philipsteak]

2 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Tiny chance but maybe if he left his Bluetooth on at home, his neighbour?

The layout of the two houses (we only have a neighbour one side) would make it very very unlikely. And need both of them to have shit hot Bluetooth. And the house next door is only occupied part time. I'm almost certain it was empty last week (couldn't say 100%)

[jimmillen]

1 hour ago, MEGABOWL said:

The worst thing is I feel like it’s ‘my’ side trying to turn it into some sort of culture war. All these people I followed because they were smart, forceful Remainers now talking absolute bilge. Sigh.

In my experience any time you start to feel like you’re part of a “side” on social media is a good time to seek out some different viewpoints… 🤷‍♂️

It’s so easy to go down a rabbit hole of groupthink. I was 100% guilty of this during Brexit. Still totally think it was a terrible, terrible thing to happen. But a lot of the Twitter comments and opinions I kind of bought into at the time were in retrospect pretty useless.

[Fuzzy Afro]

It’s becoming quite clear that the choice of whether to wear a mask or not after 19th July is going to be the biggest virtue signalling culture war of the year 

[Ozanne]

7 minutes ago, philipsteak said:

The layout of the two houses (we only have a neighbour one side) would make it very very unlikely. And need both of them to have shit hot Bluetooth. And the house next door is only occupied part time. I'm almost certain it was empty last week (couldn't say 100%)

Maybe he’s been doing a Matt Hancock? 😉

[DeanoL]

2 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

It’s becoming quite clear that the choice of whether to wear a mask or not after 19th July is going to be the biggest virtue signalling culture war of the year 

It's not "virtue signalling" when it's actually being virtuous is it?

[kalifire]

4 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

It’s becoming quite clear that the choice of whether to wear a mask or not after 19th July is going to be the biggest virtue signalling culture war of the year 

Is it really a thing outside social media? Out here, nearly everyone wears masks when the health advice is that we should, and most of us don’t bother when the health advice is that it’s not mandatory. As far as I can tell, it hasn’t really made any difference - outbreaks occur independently of masks and the spread wasn’t any worse when we didn’t wear them. 

EDIT: of course, it’s never been so rampant here that masks were ever truly given a chance to come into their own. It’s always been precautionary. 

Edited July 5, 2021 by kalifire

[Fuzzy Afro]

1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

It's not "virtue signalling" when it's actually being virtuous is it?

Have we got data on whether they actually work? That’s the tell tale sign on whether it’s virtue signalling pandemic theatre of a sensible measure to protect members of the public. 
 

I struggle to see why I should wear a face mask to avoid spreading a virus that I don’t have. Surely I can’t spread a virus that I don’t actually have? 

[MEGABOWL]

11 minutes ago, jimmillen said:

In my experience any time you start to feel like you’re part of a “side” on social media is a good time to seek out some different viewpoints… 🤷‍♂️

It’s so easy to go down a rabbit hole of groupthink. I was 100% guilty of this during Brexit. Still totally think it was a terrible, terrible thing to happen. But a lot of the Twitter comments and opinions I kind of bought into at the time were in retrospect pretty useless.

Yes I totally agree. Brexit was the klaxon for me on that front. Then when I saw many Corbynistas absolutely convinced they were going to win the 2019 election because of the numbers he had at rally’s and the size of their Twitter echo chamber. Since then I’ve been trying really hard to mix up who I follow and it’s made it more interesting, even if it’s also left me with a feeling of political homelessness. 
 

Ultimately it’s down to personal choice but if you only see people that agree with you on Twitter (or even worse, block those who think differently) you aren’t seeing the full picture and are going to get a shock at some point.

[jimmillen]

7 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

It’s becoming quite clear that the choice of whether to wear a mask or not after 19th July is going to be the biggest virtue signalling culture war of the year 

As per their previous form, the trailed approach by the government to this could almost be calculated for maximum divisiveness. 🙄

A PM with some level of moral authority might have a hope of leading the majority of people to not act like dicks, wear masks if appropriate and genuinely take personal responsibility. 

This lot? No chance. 

[balthazarstarbuck]

26 minutes ago, philipsteak said:

So as I mentioned yesterday I'm currently having to isolate after being pinged on the app. Along with two other colleagues who also got pinged over the weekend. One from a contact on Monday and two (me included) from a contact on Wednesday. I was at work on Wednesday, around a lot of people so I could well have come in to contact with someone, but very unlikely to have been in contact with someone for any length of time. Isn't it supposed to be 15 minutes? The weird thing is my colleague (and housemate) was off on Wednesday and didn't leave the house. He barely left his room (he very much celebrated England's win over Germany) so how did he get pinged?

Mrs S’s sister is still shielding as vulnerable. Hasn’t left her flat; no way she could have been in contact with anyone, still got pinged last Thursday and told to isolate for 7 days. Would imagine it was from a flat above or below but nigh on impossible to have actually caught it.

I’ve deleted the app as a result. 

 

 

[Fuzzy Afro]

Just now, jimmillen said:

As per their previous form, the trailed approach by the government to this could almost be calculated for maximum divisiveness. 🙄

A PM with some level of moral authority might have a hope of leading the majority of people to not act like dicks, wear masks if appropriate and genuinely take personal responsibility. 

This lot? No chance. 

Isn’t that exactly what’s happening though?

 

As far as I can tell the government is basically saying “We aren’t going to fine you for not wearing them anymore, you can come to your own judgement on when, if at all, they should still be worn, however we still advise that they should be worn in enclosed public spaces.”

 

The messaging is hardly going to be “burn your face nappies and shag grannies”

[andyrhodes24]

39 minutes ago, Ryan1984 said:

The last I saw was the creator of the fundraiser hasn’t been in contact with the girl or her family? Did anything happen after?

Search his name, Joel Hughes, on Twitter, true or not it's quite the turn of events. He's gone private now but all hell broke loose last night. Trending #2 in the UK at one point

[zahidf]

7 minutes ago, balthazarstarbuck said:

Mrs S’s sister is still shielding as vulnerable. Hasn’t left her flat; no way she could have been in contact with anyone, still got pinged last Thursday and told to isolate for 7 days. Would imagine it was from a flat above or below but nigh on impossible to have actually caught it.

I’ve deleted the app as a result. 

 

 

They are removing the check in requirement for venues aren't they? Seems pointless using it for the next 2 weeks tbh

[balthazarstarbuck]

Just now, zahidf said:

They are removing the check in requirement for venues aren't they? Seems pointless using it for the next 2 weeks tbh

Pretty much everywhere I go I can sign in manually or via their website as an alternative now anyway. 

[Matt42]

49 minutes ago, philipsteak said:

So as I mentioned yesterday I'm currently having to isolate after being pinged on the app. Along with two other colleagues who also got pinged over the weekend. One from a contact on Monday and two (me included) from a contact on Wednesday. I was at work on Wednesday, around a lot of people so I could well have come in to contact with someone, but very unlikely to have been in contact with someone for any length of time. Isn't it supposed to be 15 minutes? The weird thing is my colleague (and housemate) was off on Wednesday and didn't leave the house. He barely left his room (he very much celebrated England's win over Germany) so how did he get pinged?

James o brien had a great show about this a while ago. You’re being told to isolate because an app ping has told you to. It’s not because of some serious medical advice to isolate.

The app was built for a country in lockdown, but we aren’t anymore, so it isn’t fit for purpose. 

[Matt42]

31 minutes ago, kalifire said:

Is it really a thing outside social media? Out here, nearly everyone wears masks when the health advice is that we should, and most of us don’t bother when the health advice is that it’s not mandatory. As far as I can tell, it hasn’t really made any difference - outbreaks occur independently of masks and the spread wasn’t any worse when we didn’t wear them. 

EDIT: of course, it’s never been so rampant here that masks were ever truly given a chance to come into their own. It’s always been precautionary. 

In London right now I’d say mask obedience has probably fallen to about 60%. Lots of people have stopped and I’ve also stopped seeing security or service staff asking people to put them back on.

I imagine these numbers will drop dramatically in the next few days.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Matt42

[efcfanwirral]

My newish bluetooth speaker works from the kitchen all the way upstairs, so my phone Bluetooth must be pretty good. Note to self to turn off the NHS app when I plan to use bluetooth at home for a while!! 

[DeanoL]

22 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Have we got data on whether they actually work? That’s the tell tale sign on whether it’s virtue signalling pandemic theatre of a sensible measure to protect members of the public. 
 

I struggle to see why I should wear a face mask to avoid spreading a virus that I don’t have. Surely I can’t spread a virus that I don’t actually have? 

If you're taking regular tests and hence know you don't have it, and then go out and wear a mask (assuming they're made voluntary) then yes, I guess that would be virtue signalling.

But most of us don't known at any given point if we do have it or not. 

Also I disagree on your test for virtue signalling vs sensible measure. The scientific data is all over the place, but I think it's sufficient that we can't say it doesn't work, in order for someone wearing a mask to not be virtue signalling. If they reasonably believe masks work, and so they wear a mask, they're doing a good thing.

(And yes, works in reverse, if you believe they don't work and so don't wear one, doesn't make you evil/selfish. But we have to accept that both these viewpoints exist and just because you don't think masks work doesn't mean that everyone wearing them doesn't think they work either but are doing it just to look like they're good people)

[balthazarstarbuck]

6 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

James o brien had a great show about this a while ago. You’re being told to isolate because an app ping has told you to. It’s not because of some serious medical advice to isolate.

The app was built for a country in lockdown, but we aren’t anymore, so it isn’t fit for purpose. 

The problem is though, it ain’t an app saying ‘might be a good idea to get yourself tested’, it says this:

Which is gonna scare the bejeezus out of people they’ll be fined or thrown in clink if they don’t comply.

[Matt42]

1 minute ago, balthazarstarbuck said:

The problem is though, it ain’t an app saying ‘might be a good idea to get yourself tested’, it says this:

Which is gonna scare the bejeezus out of people they’ll be fined or thrown in clink if they don’t comply.

I have a feeling this will change soon. Bookmark this but the rule will be only to self isolate if you have symptoms. If you are double vaccinated you won’t get an exposure notification.

[philipsteak]

4 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

James o brien had a great show about this a while ago. You’re being told to isolate because an app ping has told you to. It’s not because of some serious medical advice to isolate.

The app was built for a country in lockdown, but we aren’t anymore, so it isn’t fit for purpose. 

Not sure it ever was. The scenario with my colleague just shouldn't have happened, lockdown or not. 

The fact that when/if my test comes back negative I (second jab 2 months ago) still have to see out the 7 days is mad. Still, a paid week off work. Which is still an absolute shitshow so not sad to be missing that. Just makes it worse for my colleagues, with 3 of us off.

Shame I don't like watching tennis. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

2 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

If you're taking regular tests and hence know you don't have it, and then go out and wear a mask (assuming they're made voluntary) then yes, I guess that would be virtue signalling.

But most of us don't known at any given point if we do have it or not. 

Also I disagree on your test for virtue signalling vs sensible measure. The scientific data is all over the place, but I think it's sufficient that we can't say it doesn't work, in order for someone wearing a mask to not be virtue signalling. If they reasonably believe masks work, and so they wear a mask, they're doing a good thing.

(And yes, works in reverse, if you believe they don't work and so don't wear one, doesn't make you evil/selfish. But we have to accept that both these viewpoints exist and just because you don't think masks work doesn't mean that everyone wearing them doesn't think they work either but are doing it just to look like they're good people)

Good post, although I take issue with the bolded. The government has made twice a week testing freely available (and in practice you could even take a test more frequency than that if you wanted extra reassurance)

 

If you have the virus you should be staying at home under all circumstances and shouldn’t be going on public transport at all, mask or no mask. If you don’t have the virus then there’s no reason to wear a mask (unless you have one of those FFP3/N95 type masks that protect you as well)

FWIW, I think an infected carrier wearing a mask DOES reduce the amount of aerosols they’d breathing into the air. So masks sort of do work if you have the virus. But then, you shouldn’t be out of your house at all if you do. For the vast majority of us who don’t have the virus, mask wearing is literally just virtue signalling because we don’t have anything to spread in the first place. 

 

[jimmillen]

25 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Isn’t that exactly what’s happening though?

 

As far as I can tell the government is basically saying “We aren’t going to fine you for not wearing them anymore, you can come to your own judgement on when, if at all, they should still be worn, however we still advise that they should be worn in enclosed public spaces.”

 

The messaging is hardly going to be “burn your face nappies and shag grannies”

That would be quite some political messaging 😂

The substance of the guidance is about all they can say if removing legal enforcement of face coverings.

I guess I mean it’s more what they say around this and how they communicate it.

When a government is telling people they should do something - as opposed to mandating it through legislation - success depends on both moral authority and building public consensus around that course of action. This government has no moral authority and no capability or desire to build consensus. 

Basically I fear they’ll give ammunition to the weirdo extremists both pro- and anti-face coverings, do nothing to calm people down and the vast majority will be totally confused. 

I hope I’m wrong! But it’s the way they’ve gone about literally everything else so far, so… 

[Fuzzy Afro]

Lineup confirmed for 5pm. Boris, Whitty and Vallance.

 

Big guns being rolled out.