When will this shit end?

[Matt42]

Just now, Gregfc15 said:

This is not true. The tweet you are originally complaining about is literally asking for time for more people to get it.

There is plenty she says worth discussing whether for or against and everyone's risk appetitive is going to be different. The debate doesn't need nonsense like this.

If you read my post you would see that what I said was not about what she said but the effect this is having. Increased scepticism at a time where people are doing what they should be doing and taking the vaccine causes people to doubt getting the vaccine if they are on the fence.

She has factually stated in her tweets that things are heading in a bad way when we have more people getting vaccinated daily than ever. Read between the lines man and think what that looks like to someone on the fence about the vaccine and on the fence about following the science. 

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

This is a forum about discussing the pandemic and I am allowed to voice my view. I’m also allowed to disagree with stuff that she says. Don’t gaslight people who disagree with you.

Ok, carry on attacking her then.

[stuartbert two hats]

3 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

This is a forum about discussing the pandemic and I am allowed to voice my view. I’m also allowed to disagree with stuff that she says. Don’t gaslight people who disagree with you.

I'm pretty sure that's not gaslighting.

[fraybentos1]

It is not enough for Pagel for all adults to be double vaxxed tho she wants all kids to get it too so that would be what like November before they could be double vaxxed assuming they get it? Then it is winter, can't open up then cause too much strain on nhs etc etc rinse and repeat 

[steviewevie]

Kind of interesting social experiment over coming months with people deciding for themselves whether to social distance or wear masks.

[Ozanne]

10 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

If you read my post you would see that what I said was not about what she said but the effect this is having. Increased scepticism at a time where people are doing what they should be doing and taking the vaccine causes people to doubt getting the vaccine if they are on the fence.

She has factually stated in her tweets that things are heading in a bad way when we have more people getting vaccinated daily than ever. Read between the lines man and think what that looks like to someone on the fence about the vaccine and on the fence about following the science. 

You are sharing her posts thus spreading any potential fear and scepticism around. If she is doing what you claim (which she isn’t) then you are adding to that. You aren’t the vigilante you think you are. 

Edited July 4, 2021 by Ozanne

[Matt42]

Just now, stuartbert two hats said:

I'm pretty sure that's not gaslighting.

Of course it is. Diminishing the view / possibility that someone may have a problem with something she says. People’s views are valid even if they disagree with yours. Plus he’s given up debating me and is instead just being patronising.

 

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Ok, carry on attacking her then.

Disagreeing with her and not swallowing everything she says is not attacking. Come off it.

 

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

You are sharing her posts this spreading any potential fear and scepticism around. If she is doing what you claim (which she isn’t) then you are adding to that. You aren’t the vigilante you think you are. 

Because she’s an influential figure and I believe what she pushes is dangerous. I’ve not said anything mean towards her character only towards her views. But of course any criticism or debate around the status-quo is ‘attacking’ nowadays.

[Matt42]

3 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

It is not enough for Pagel for all adults to be double vaxxed tho she wants all kids to get it too so that would be what like November before they could be double vaxxed assuming they get it? Then it is winter, can't open up then cause too much strain on nhs etc etc rinse and repeat 

Dude stop attacking her

[Ozanne]

Just now, Matt42 said:

Because she’s an influential figure and I believe what she pushes is dangerous. I’ve not said anything mean towards her character only towards her views. But of course any criticism or debate around the status-quo is ‘attacking’ nowadays.

That’s not what I said. In the scenario where she is spreading scepticism, you sharing her posts is highlighting her message more and adding to that. You are adding to her influence. Surely you can see that?

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, fraybentos1 said:

It is not enough for Pagel for all adults to be double vaxxed tho she wants all kids to get it too so that would be what like November before they could be double vaxxed assuming they get it? Then it is winter, can't open up then cause too much strain on nhs etc etc rinse and repeat 

But we are opening in 16 days anyway ..  and those things may or may not happen nothing to do with Christina … and they may actually help keep the numbers down … that’s the decision currently being assessed 

[steviewevie]

Only a couple of weeks left, so really need to let the bile and venom pour out.

 

[Chapple12345]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Kind of interesting social experiment over coming months with people deciding for themselves whether to social distance or wear masks.

I think masks are here to stay but I don't think distancings been a thing since last summer in all honesty

As for me I'd probably not wear a mask in places like a restaraunt (too fiddly and I think a bit of a waste of time once sat down) but might choose to in smaller shops. I wouldn't wear one at a gig or anything though really. For distancing I'll happily get close to friends and family but might just ask people I dislike to stay away for my sanity 

[Ozanne]

Just now, steviewevie said:

Only a couple of weeks left, so really need to let the bile and venom pour out.

 

It’s weird the more of our ‘freedoms’ we get back the angrier some seem to get. Surely people should be happy and looking forward to the summer given the indications from government so far? Not riled up over Professors/Scientists that have no impact on decisions being made. 

[Matt42]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

That’s not what I said. In the scenario where she is spreading scepticism, you sharing her posts is highlighting her message more and adding to that. You are adding to her influence. Surely you can see that?

 

Just now, Ozanne said:

It’s weird the more of our ‘freedoms’ we get back the angrier some seem to get. Surely people should be happy and looking forward to the summer given the indications from government so far? Not riled up over Professors/Scientists that have no impact on decisions being made. 

These are two fantastic examples of gaslighting. People are frustrated because there are people actively trying to keep us under restrictions at every turn.  People are not allowed to disagree, nor question people like pagel because pagel know what’s best for all of us.

[Nobody Interesting]

I remember when young Matt42 had a huge negative reputation but managed to turn it around by being generally nicer, thinking more about how he posted stuff and what he said to others.

A real shame that this approach seems to have gone into reverse and the putting down others approach has returned in full effect on this thread

This is not an attack on him at all, just making a point as he is not alone in this approach - sadly what I see are people who 'just want to get on with it' are more and more like this and take any caution as a slight against them and their view.

This does not bode well for the real world after July 19th if that attitude is taken outside.

We will all have different thoughts and opinions, we will all have certain concerns one way or another.

More now than ever I think we all need the Glastonbury spirit where we look after each other, consider others may be different and always offer a helping hand.

Anyway, enough of that being considerate stuff from me.................... let's all enjoy the future together.

Love and peace

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Matt42 said:

 

These are two fantastic examples of gaslighting. People are frustrated because there are people actively trying to keep us under restrictions at every turn.  People are not allowed to disagree, nor question people like pagel because pagel know what’s best for all of us.

Which bit of reopening in 16 days are you missing ? … again and I repeat nobody is happy with restrictions … 

[Ozanne]

Just now, Matt42 said:

 

These are two fantastic examples of gaslighting. People are frustrated because there are people actively trying to keep us under restrictions at every turn.  People are not allowed to disagree, nor question people like pagel because pagel know what’s best for all of us.

Well done for not addressing the point of my first post you’ve quoted and proving my point in the 2nd.

You are getting everything you want back in 2 weeks, be happy man!

[Reckoner]

1 minute ago, Matt42 said:

If you read my post you would see that what I said was not about what she said but the effect this is having. Increased scepticism at a time where people are doing what they should be doing and taking the vaccine causes people to doubt getting the vaccine if they are on the fence.

She has factually stated in her tweets that things are heading in a bad way when we have more people getting vaccinated daily than ever. Read between the lines man and think what that looks like to someone on the fence about the vaccine and on the fence about following the science. 

Rather than read between the lines and find things she's not saying, I'll just read the actual words she is saying. She has faith in the vaccines, she wants more people to get them and wants the opportunity for people who haven't got them to be allowed before all restrictions are dropped considering cases are transmitting without much trouble.

Is it too risk adverse considering the age ranges left? Probably, yes. Are her Long Covid concerns disproportionate the risk and levels of other chronic illnesses we deal with everyday? I'd say yes also. It not exactly an extreme position though to want people to have the chance to be vaccinated before they catch Covid and that stance does nothing to enhance vaccine hesitancy. It's literally supporting people to get them.

 

 

 

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Chapple12345 said:

I think masks are here to stay but I don't think distancings been a thing since last summer in all honesty

As for me I'd probably not wear a mask in places like a restaraunt (too fiddly and I think a bit of a waste of time once sat down) but might choose to in smaller shops. I wouldn't wear one at a gig or anything though really. For distancing I'll happily get close to friends and family but might just ask people I dislike to stay away for my sanity 

Believe it or not,in my household I'm probably the most anti lockdown/mask. My missus definitely more nervous, thinks restrictions being lifted too soon, says she will carry on wearing a mask...whereas I am very much looking forward to not wearing a mask and being able to buy a drink at the bar and hopefully go to Manchester psych fest in September. My daughter is centrist. The dog thinks us humans are crazy. The hamster couldn't give a shit.

[Matt42]

Just now, crazyfool1 said:

Which bit of reopening in 16 days are you missing ? … again and I repeat nobody is happy with restrictions … 

 

Just now, Ozanne said:

Well done for not addressing the point of my first post you’ve quoted and proving my point in the 2nd.

You are getting everything you want back in 2 weeks, be happy man!

Lol you both exactly encapsulate why people get angry and refuse to ignore it, I say that it’s gaslighting because you know exactly what’s going on and you turn a blind eye to it.

At every turn people like pagel have got everything they want - they put enough pressure to delay 21 June, they are doing the same thing now for July 19. Maybe they won’t be successful - but here you’re deliberately ignoring what’s going on here to make people critical about indie sage doubt what they feel.

[stuartbert two hats]

Fucks' sake, pointing that we currently have exponential growth of cases that are currently high is not a good situation to loosen restrictions is a reasonable position. 

Saying that although cases are high and rising, the link between hospitalisations is much weaker and weakening, is a reasonable position.

Can we please have a little less hysteria?

[Ozanne]

Just now, Matt42 said:

 

Lol you both exactly encapsulate why people get angry and refuse to ignore it, I say that it’s gaslighting because you know exactly what’s going on and you turn a blind eye to it.

At every turn people like pagel have got everything they want - they put enough pressure to delay 21 June, they are doing the same thing now for July 19. Maybe they won’t be successful - but here you’re deliberately ignoring what’s going on here to make people critical about indie sage doubt what they feel.

I ignored your gaslighting comment because I don’t think you know what gaslighting means.

I have actually given much in the way of opinion on Pagels comments today, I just said that in the scenario where she is adding to scepticism, you sharing her posts would be adding to that by highlighting her message.

I’ll repeat myself again, you are getting everything you want back in 2 weeks, try and be happy about it!

[stuartbert two hats]

2 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

 

Lol you both exactly encapsulate why people get angry and refuse to ignore it, I say that it’s gaslighting because you know exactly what’s going on and you turn a blind eye to it.

At every turn people like pagel have got everything they want - they put enough pressure to delay 21 June, they are doing the same thing now for July 19. Maybe they won’t be successful - but here you’re deliberately ignoring what’s going on here to make people critical about indie sage doubt what they feel.

Have you ever stopped to consider that the last delay was based on sound scientific reasons and the reason policy matched her requests was because she was right, not because she pressured the government?

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Matt42 said:

 

Lol you both exactly encapsulate why people get angry and refuse to ignore it, I say that it’s gaslighting because you know exactly what’s going on and you turn a blind eye to it.

At every turn people like pagel have got everything they want - they put enough pressure to delay 21 June, they are doing the same thing now for July 19. Maybe they won’t be successful - but here you’re deliberately ignoring what’s going on here to make people critical about indie sage doubt what they feel.

My thinking skills have made me think that this is the right stage to be opening up and I’ve made that assessment by looking at data we have had on here without the obsession with Indy sage .. I see past that .. there are other people with agendas that get balanced in the decision making process .. I thought June 21st delay was right because we didn’t have clarity on hospitalisations but now that looks to be rising slowly … 

[Matt42]

5 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Have you ever stopped to consider that the last delay was based on sound scientific reasons and the reason policy matched her requests was because she was right, not because she pressured the government?

Absolutely - and it only was a matter of days before the government started talking with confidence about July 19. The doomsday forecasts didn’t happen and our death count didn’t rise. I think the reason why Javid has come in with this strong reopening narrative is because they realised that they were very much in a position to reopen on June 21, and what they were battling with was reopening anxiety.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Matt42