When will this shit end?

[rascalpete]

24 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

It’s a not good look that a business executive can be exempt from quarantine and Nick takes the Minister to task over it here. 

Go Nick! She was totally rattled by him

[stuartbert two hats]

Any theories why Manchester is still accelerating, at least a couple of weeks after Delta took over?  People loosening up?

[Crazyfool01]

4 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Any theories why Manchester is still accelerating, at least a couple of weeks after Delta took over?  People loosening up?

hugs ? 

[Stretlow]

5 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Any theories why Manchester is still accelerating, at least a couple of weeks after Delta took over?  People loosening up?

I've been out in town last few weeks and it's been busy. Obviously as the night goes on the rules get relaxed / forgotten.

[JoeyT]

Good idea… I think? Helps us out a lot….

 

[mpdow2]

2 hours ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

If you get the chance, go back and watch yesterday's Scottish briefing with Nicola Sturgeon and the CMO Gregor Smith, where this very point was raised.

 

Basically, the CMO said that whilst the JCVI were happy to reduce the gap from 12 weeks to 8 in order to give more people the opportunity to become fully vaccinated more quickly, the JCVI were quite clear that the gap should NOT be reduced any further than 8 weeks.

 

The reason for this is that AstraZeneca is proven to be more effective with a longer gap and early evidence is showing this is also the case with Pfizer. If we shorten it too much, then we risk the protection "wearing off" more quickly in people and the potential that protection will wear off before the winter season in a few months, which is the last thing we want. So there's a trade off between fully vaccinating people quickly and ensuring we get adequate medium-to-long term protection.

 

In an ideal world where Delta hadn't taken over (Remember that one dose works well against the previous variants) we'd be sticking with 12 weeks as it gives better protection in the longer term.

Copying @Toilet Duck I thought ideal time for Phizer Moderna was still the 4-5 week range?    What is the early evidence on longer gap on Pfizer?

[Fuzzy Afro]

7 minutes ago, mpdow2 said:

Copying @Toilet Duck I thought ideal time for Phizer Moderna was still the 4-5 week range?    What is the early evidence on longer gap on Pfizer?

Sure @Toilet Duck can confirm more eloquently than me but I believe Pfizer (and Moderna) were recommended with a short gap as thats how the phase-3 trials were done however the UK moved to the long gap to get more people partially vaccinated ASAP and then measured the antibody response of a selection of people who’d had the longer gap, and that survey showed stronger antibody response in this who’d had the long gap. 

[stuartbert two hats]

25 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

Good idea… I think? Helps us out a lot….

 

Does seem to be good news, but I had to LOL at this part, which is definitely a balanced account of what happened.

 

[steviewevie]

1 hour ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Any theories why Manchester is still accelerating, at least a couple of weeks after Delta took over?  People loosening up?

People not bothering with the rules anymore because enough is enough?

[efcfanwirral]

15 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Does seem to be good news, but I had to LOL at this part, which is definitely a balanced account of what happened.

 

Bit that got me was this part

I imagine they have expiry dates for  a reason - it's a pretty big deal injecting something into your body so I think the sensible decision is to maybe not try to push the boundaries of the expiry date...

Edited June 30, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[dotdash79]

3 hours ago, Supernintendo Chalmers said:

Why are the vaccination rates so low? Surely the only way of breaking the current cycle is to get everyone jabbed asap?

I had my second jab cancelled today as the centre is cutting its hours, luckily I have a pick of walk in centres I can attend over the next few days. 

[Toilet Duck]

1 hour ago, mpdow2 said:

Copying @Toilet Duck I thought ideal time for Phizer Moderna was still the 4-5 week range?    What is the early evidence on longer gap on Pfizer?

Yeah, as Fuzzy says, the Pfizer phase 3 had a 21 day gap, Moderna had a 28 day one. AZ works better with a longer gap (and better again with Pfizer as the 2nd dose!), while for the mRNA ones, the antibody levels start to drop off a bit after 4 weeks, but dose 2 firms it up if you leave it for 12 weeks (not better than 4 weeks though, just comparable, and between weeks 4 and 12, they are still at least at the levels observed after natural infection). Nowhere else has used them with a 12 week gap (it made sense at the time as 1 dose gave good protection, less so now), Israel did 3 weeks, we’ve done 4 (like pretty much everywhere else and what Pfizer themselves recommend). So there’s no issue with moving Pfizer or Moderna 2nd jabs forward to 3-4 weeks (though the supply contracts with Moderna have a clause requiring dose 2 to be held for those that got the 1st shot, so they can’t all be fired into arms in the hope future deliveries will make up the 2nd doses). GPs and Pharmacies are already doing the shorter gap in the UK it seems (since the vaccines are licensed for use with these gaps).
 

For AZ, previously the shortest gap we had was 6 weeks (for healthcare workers) and it was 12 weeks (for everyone else…8-9 weeks looks like the sweet spot, but the gains after 6 weeks are minor), however,  it’s just been approved here with a 4 week gap for the younger age group. The logic being that only the low risk population are left, 2 doses > 1 dose for delta and we have a Pfizer shot coming for everyone in the country as a booster which will shore up that immunity, starting with the highest risk in September once the first round of the vaccination programme is complete. The aim being to get 2 doses into everyone as quickly as we can, then top everyone up again (delta has moved the goalposts a bit). Given the levels of prior infection in many of those left, even 1 dose of anything might be enough for lots of people!

[Toilet Duck]

39 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Bit that got me was this part

I imagine they have expiry dates for  a reason - it's a pretty big deal injecting something into your body so I think the sensible decision is to maybe not try to push the boundaries of the expiry date...

I think they are asking as Pfizer have increased the shelf life and the storage temperature after accruing more data on the stability of the vaccines, but Israel got them early, so presumably the initial storage and shelf life is what’s listed on them. I’m guessing mind you! 
 

edit: reduced the storage temp made no sense! It went from -80 to -20! 

Edited June 30, 2021 by Toilet Duck

[mpdow2]

23 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

Yeah, as Fuzzy says, the Pfizer phase 3 had a 21 day gap, Moderna had a 28 day one. AZ works better with a longer gap (and better again with Pfizer as the 2nd dose!), while for the mRNA ones, the antibody levels start to drop off a bit after 4 weeks, but dose 2 firms it up if you leave it for 12 weeks (not better than 4 weeks though, just comparable, and between weeks 4 and 12, they are still at least at the levels observed after natural infection). Nowhere else has used them with a 12 week gap (it made sense at the time as 1 dose gave good protection, less so now), Israel did 3 weeks, we’ve done 4 (like pretty much everywhere else and what Pfizer themselves recommend). So there’s no issue with moving Pfizer or Moderna 2nd jabs forward to 3-4 weeks (though the supply contracts with Moderna have a clause requiring dose 2 to be held for those that got the 1st shot, so they can’t all be fired into arms in the hope future deliveries will make up the 2nd doses). GPs and Pharmacies are already doing the shorter gap in the UK it seems (since the vaccines are licensed for use with these gaps).
 

For AZ, previously the shortest gap we had was 6 weeks (for healthcare workers) and it was 12 weeks (for everyone else…8-9 weeks looks like the sweet spot, but the gains after 6 weeks are minor), however,  it’s just been approved here with a 4 week gap for the younger age group. The logic being that only the low risk population are left, 2 doses > 1 dose for delta and we have a Pfizer shot coming for everyone in the country as a booster which will shore up that immunity, starting with the highest risk in September once the first round of the vaccination programme is complete. The aim being to get 2 doses into everyone as quickly as we can, then top everyone up again (delta has moved the goalposts a bit). Given the levels of prior infection in many of those left, even 1 dose of anything might be enough for lots of people!

Thanks. That is very clear. Was hoping you said this as my GP has texted me for my second dose only 4 weeks post my first. 

[Chapple12345]

This is a very good new website, found out my area (Sprowston, North Norwich) has 

1st dose - 86.0%

2nd dose - 67.0%

Edited June 30, 2021 by Chapple12345

[Toilet Duck]

6 minutes ago, mpdow2 said:

Thanks. That is very clear. Was hoping you said this as my GP has texted me for my second dose only 4 weeks post my first. 

Well, I had my 2nd Pfizer dose last Thursday, 4 weeks practically to the minute after my 1st! 

[august1]

8 minutes ago, Chapple12345 said:

This is a very good new website, found out my area has 

1st dose - 86.0%

2nd dose - 67.0%

 

poor uptake in cities, wondering whether its somewhat down to students being registered there for uni and subsequently leaving?! 

[Crazyfool01]

3 minutes ago, august1 said:

 

poor uptake in cities, wondering whether its somewhat down to students being registered there for uni and subsequently leaving?! 

Manchester an issue @stuartbert two hats

[Supernintendo Chalmers]

1st 90.0% and 2nd 70.8%, here. Well done Berrow and Brent Knoll! And I'll personally be adding to the 2nd this Friday

[Chapple12345]

9 minutes ago, august1 said:

 

poor uptake in cities, wondering whether its somewhat down to students being registered there for uni and subsequently leaving?! 

Didn't they have a similar issue with postive tests last year? They would be registered to their home addresses rather than the unis so places would be unfairly skewed data wise 

Edited June 30, 2021 by Chapple12345

[Memory Man]

students might be getting jabbed in their parents locale (where they could still be registered with a GP) but counting towards population in traditional student areas of cities

bear in mind students 18-21 are last on the list age wise and theres still circa 5% of 1st doses to go if you assume we will end up at 90% (10% vaccine sceptics)

they really need to hurry along these 2nd doses in the 3 weeks we have till restrictions go. They all count!

wife mid 30s has just passed 6 weeks since her 1st pfizer and i’d like her 2nd done sooner rather than later so we can just essentially forget about covid as a household (i’ve had my 2 for a while and contact tracing is off on our apps)

Edited June 30, 2021 by Memory Man

[Fuzzy Afro]

Me thinking about covid getting dicked into irrelevance by these vaccines 

[BobWillis2]

So it turns out there probably isn’t a big spike in school age infections. The kids have learnt how to guarantee a false positive LFT by using fruit juice. 

[Zoo Music Girl]

Wow my area of London is really poor on that vaccination map:

1st dose

49.9%

2nd dose

29.0%

[Chapple12345]

6 minutes ago, BobWillis2 said:

So it turns out there probably isn’t a big spike in school age infections. The kids have learnt how to guarantee a false positive LFT by using fruit juice. 

Not so sure, I think regulations mean it needs a confirmatory PCR test afterwards (well that's the guidance on teaching staff me and my colleagues have been given)