When will this shit end?

[st dan]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

The JVCI guideline say it should only not be offered to under 40s if meant there was no delay in the overall programme and rates are low. As there is now a delay in the overall programme and more Covid around, you and your mates would have been more at risk from Covid than a blood clot

But it’s contradictory information - on one hand they are saying avoid it if you can if you are under 40 due to potential clotting issues, but if it’s going to slow down the vaccination programme then it’s fine. Doesn’t fill you with much confidence. And we’ve seen the effects across Europe and now Australia with such messaging. Once the element of doubt and risk was seeded, its almost impossible to go back on. 

[zahidf]

3 minutes ago, st dan said:

But it’s contradictory information - on one hand they are saying avoid it if you can if you are under 40 due to potential clotting issues, but if it’s going to slow down the vaccination programme then it’s fine. Doesn’t fill you with much confidence. And we’ve seen the effects across Europe and now Australia with such messaging. Once the element of doubt and risk was seeded, its almost impossible to go back on. 

Which is why i thought it was a mistake to muddy the waters, when the risks of catching Covid are much higher than the blood clot risks

[st dan]

Just now, zahidf said:

Which is why i thought it was a mistake to muddy the waters, when the risks of catching Covid are much higher than the blood clot risks

But that’s exactly my point - the JCVI and other experts seemed there was enough data and reasoning to address the blood clotting issues in the first place, and change their recommendations to this not being offered to the under 40s.
Once they had done this, the speed of the vaccination program then becomes second priority, despite how much we all want to rush out of this. Safety should be paramount with vaccinations, especially in the younger population and the vast majority of them who don’t really need to have a jab.
The move away from AZ has definitely increased the take up in the under 40s, and therefore will actually will move us closer to herd immunity. Just might be a few weeks slower than it could have been. 

[Zoo Music Girl]

I think the answer is on AZ is just to make it optional. Have it at a few walk-in centres for under 40s and let them know the risks. People have to make decisions about medication risks all the time so as long as they can make an informed choice then all good surely.

I say this as someone who is 38 and has had it though.

[Zoo Music Girl]

4 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I think the answer is on AZ is just to make it optional. Have it at a few walk-in centres for under 40s and let them know the risks. People have to make decisions about medication risks all the time so as long as they can make an informed choice then all good surely.

I say this as someone who is 38 and has had it though.

Just to add to this, takeup might not be amazing but some would still have it. When I was volunteering at an AZ centre just after the under-30s ban came in (and the blood clot thing was all over the news) we had loads in that age group trying their luck as walk-ins and having to be turned away as they're not allowed it. A while back admittedly.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Zoo Music Girl

[Toilet Duck]

25 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I think the answer is on AZ is just to make it optional. Have it at a few walk-in centres for under 40s and let them know the risks. People have to make decisions about medication risks all the time so as long as they can make an informed choice then all good surely.

I say this as someone who is 38 and has had it though.

Yeah, this is pretty much the way it is here now. If you give informed consent, you can have AZ or J&J if you are under 50 and get an earlier appointment. Some are happy to do so, others don't mind waiting for Pfizer or Moderna, but it's a personal choice. I think the sands have shifted a bit since the initial discovery was made. Early diagnosis and early treatment has improved outcomes significantly now for those unlucky enough to experience a clotting issue, so the most extreme risks have been largely mitigated. But, let people make that decision themselves. 

[zahidf]

0

 

 

[Fuzzy Afro]

I don’t particularly like Declamare as a guy but his analysis is usually pretty spot on. It’s absolutely clear there is going to be a big exit wave (in terms of case numbers) over the coming weeks, couple of months.

 

The key thing is that we don’t panic when we start seeing insane case numbers in a few weeks. We’re looking at a 10 day doubling under step 3 so it’ll likely double twice more before freedom day even happens (70,000+ cases a day before the 19th) and then start doubling even faster (7-8 day doubling) once we move to unlimited indoor gatherings.

 

My message is: DO NOT PANIC WHEN WE SEE 100,000+ CASES PER DAY.

 

Its important to remember that case numbers in themselves don’t mean a thing. They’re just a number. The reason we used to panic about them is that they’d inevitably translate into hospitalisations and deaths a few weeks down the line. This is no longer the case (other than vulnerable anti-vaxxers. But we aren’t putting society on hold for those morons, and the unlucky few who the vaccine didn’t work on)

 

We really aren’t far away from herd immunity now so we should think of 100,000 cases a day as extra vaccines in the race to herd immunity. 

 

 

[northernringo]

46 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I think the answer is on AZ is just to make it optional. Have it at a few walk-in centres for under 40s and let them know the risks. People have to make decisions about medication risks all the time so as long as they can make an informed choice then all good surely.

I say this as someone who is 38 and has had it though.

We can do that in Northern Ireland. When booking, we have a choice and you can get an earlier appointment if you go for AZ as an under 40 or 30 or whatever the guidance is!

[TalkShow Bob]

1 hour ago, zahidf said:

 

That's a bit of weird analysis. For a start its a half truth because first jabs are continuing at the same pace they have been for a while, no drop off. Also the decision to not give under 40s AZ was to do with the balance of risk, would be really stupid to race though the jabs with an unsuitable vaccine and do more harm than good.

[efcfanwirral]

With so many double vaccinated people catching it, is herd immunity even possible? I always thought "live with it" was a meaningless soundbite but come winter season, will it just be the fault of the unvaccinated (who we know will be blamed) or is it just endemic now? There seems to be this belief that if we just inject enough people it'll go away but there's no evidence of this 

 

[swede]

3 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

With so many double vaccinated people catching it, is herd immunity even possible? I always thought "live with it" was a meaningless soundbite but come winter season, will it just be the fault of the unvaccinated (who we know will be blamed) or is it just endemic now? There seems to be this belief that if we just inject enough people it'll go away but there's no evidence of this 

 

My workmate is currently isolating as his wife, who is in her 50's and double jabbed, tested positive on Sunday. I'm having daily chats with him, Monday she felt unwell like the flu or a chest infection, yesterday she felt better and today he said you wouldn't even know she has anything wrong with her. 

Would she have made such a quick recovery if she hadn't been vaccinated ? So in the future it may well be looked at like any other viral infection in that it may kick the shit out of you for a day or two but then your feeling alright. 

[MrBarry465]

21 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

My message is: DO NOT PANIC WHEN WE SEE 100,000+ CASES PER DAY.

 

I think even the most staunch 'anti lockdown' person would start to be concerned at numbers like that.

As those sorts of figures will put strains on hospitals, just through sheer numbers. 

[MrBarry465]

8 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

With so many double vaccinated people catching it, is herd immunity even possible? I always thought "live with it" was a meaningless soundbite but come winter season, will it just be the fault of the unvaccinated (who we know will be blamed) or is it just endemic now? There seems to be this belief that if we just inject enough people it'll go away but there's no evidence of this 

 

I got downvoted the other day because I posted that a friend of mine had been to a hen do where one of the girls was double jabbed and yet caught COVID from the weekend.....

 

[Fuzzy Afro]

2 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

I think even the most staunch 'anti lockdown' person would start to be concerned at numbers like that.

As those sorts of figures will put strains on hospitals, just through sheer numbers. 

Even the literal CMO Chris Whitty is saying the NHS will be fine and restrictions should be lifted.

 

So you can stop your Helen Lovejoy tribute act. 

[MrBarry465]

2 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Even the literal CMO Chris Whitty is saying the NHS will be fine and restrictions should be lifted.

 

So you can stop your Helen Lovejoy tribute act. 

He has also said that winter is going to be 'incredibly difficult'. He didn't say the 'NHS will be absolutely fine'.

I'm going to hazard a guess that a lot of them are incredibly concerned around how winter potentially looks.

 

Ya fookin w*nker.

Edited June 30, 2021 by MrBarry465

[Fuzzy Afro]

1 minute ago, MrBarry465 said:

He has also said that winter is going to be 'incredibly difficult'. He didn't say the 'NHS will be absolutely fine'.

I'm going to hazard a guess that a lot of them are incredibly concerned around how winter potentially looks.

 

Ya fookin w*nker.

How it 100,000 cases a day in August going to affect the NHS in the winter? 

[efcfanwirral]

4 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

This was the aim of the vaccine - to reduce it to something you manage at home.  Sounds like its working 🙂 

And any sensible person sees this- it just needs that messaging to be hammered home a little harder (and they are starting with that) because if I say that to people I know they get a bit tetchy at the idea it's not a fully sterilising one. And that's on the government messaging because whether on purpose or not that's what people have been sold 

Edited June 30, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[swede]

2 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

This was the aim of the vaccine - to reduce it to something you manage at home.  Sounds like its working 🙂 

Exactly, it blows my mind how people think you cant get it just because your double jabbed. 

[Havors]

7 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

I got downvoted the other day because I posted that a friend of mine had been to a hen do where one of the girls was double jabbed and yet caught COVID from the weekend.....

 

Didnt you say your friend was the one spreading it at the party and they were double jabbed...? 🤪

[MrBarry465]

1 minute ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

How it 100,000 cases a day in August going to affect the NHS in the winter? 

Why don't you ask Whitty, as you seem to be pretty chummy with him?

I'm just quoting what he actually said, not some vague recreation of it you made. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

Just now, MrBarry465 said:

Why don't you ask Whitty, as you seem to be pretty chummy with him?

I'm just quoting what he actually said, not some vague recreation of it you made. 

He literally said the NHS will be fine for now and restrictions should be lifted…

[steviewevie]

 

[MrBarry465]

3 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

He literally said the NHS will be fine for now and restrictions should be lifted…

'Fine for now' - is different to 'The NHS will be fine'.

The NHS is going to come under a lot of pressure this winter, regardless of how you want to spin it. Particularly if cases are totally rampant. 

[MrBarry465]

1 minute ago, Barry Fish said:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hospitals-can-cope-so-lets-end-restrictions-soon-chris-whitty-tells-cabinet-kgj0hdg5w

Hospitals can cope, so let’s end restrictions soon, Chris Whitty tells cabinet

How about reading the article?

'

The chief medical adviser has warned ministers of a challenging winter but said that England is on course to ease restrictions on July 19.'

'The chief medical officer for England said that summer was the time to ease as many restrictions as possible, provided there was not a rise in Covid-19 patients in hospitals, and that winter would be harder because the virus spread more when people were indoors.'

Rergardless, I dont care - I think restrictions should be lifted as well. But just assuming that hospitals and the NHS are not concerned is really naive.