When will this shit end?

[jparx]

Very well said:

[MrBarry465]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

Depends if thats the only reason, and its a fixed 4 weeks and then back to normal.

But it wont be, the zero covid nutters will try to find another reason to keep restrictions in place, and the govt will go along with it. Move the goalposts again

SAGE have scored an absolute worldly through these 'ever shifting goalpoasts'.

I love it when science and rationale wins and I look forward to a summer with little to no COVID because of this. 

[Toilet Duck]

7 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

This might be one for @Toilet Duck but what's the latest on protection if you've had COVID (in my case at the beginning of Jan) and had your first dose of the vaccination? (fwiw I had Moderna)

In those instances are you more or less fully protected after the jab has had 3 weeks to take effect?

If so (i'm mot implying I won't have my 2nd jab by saying this) how much "extra" will the 2nd dose give you?

Howdy,

As it stands, it's still early days and we don't know for sure, but I've seen emerging data that suggests about 1 week after an mRNA shot (2 weeks for the adenovirus vaccines) for those that have recovered from Covid in the previous 9 months the immune response looks pretty much the same as somebody that has had both shots (with the bonus of also having antibodies and cellular immunity to parts of the virus not contained in the vaccine). Individuals that had recovered from infection and got both shots, had massive levels of immunity, which was much broader than those whose immunity was only gained through vaccination. We don't fully know how long the gap between infection and vaccination can be in order for 1 shot to be essentially equivalent to full vaccination (it's currently being described as 9 months as that's how long we have strong data for, but that may not wane and the cellular memory of infection might last a whole lot longer and be reignited by immunisation, so anybody that has recovered from Covid as any stage might get this benefit...whether asymptomatic infections are the same is still unknown, but the symptom tracker on ZOE, matched with vaccinations, suggests that adverse effects after the first shot are more frequent and more pronounced in those that had Covid previously, and the degree of their covid symptoms doesn't seem to correlate with this yet, so any level of infection might lead to this). So, 1 shot on top of natural infection should be the same as full vaccination in about a week after an mRNA shot and will be more robust following the second shot. Subsequent, recurring vaccinations will hopefully build something similar in high risk individuals, and if we tweak the vaccines to account for emerging variants, then bit by bit, through vaccination others will get that wide level of protection. I've seen natural infection plus two doses of vaccine described as "bulletproof" and "super-immune"...that's probably pushing it a bit!, but it is a more diverse level of immunity than either alone (it does bring up an interesting possible future scenario in the vaccinated population, where "vaccine escape" from neutralising antibodies by different variants allows low grade infections that are subsequently cleared by the rest of our immune response and this starts to build a varied immune response over subsequent infections (without severe disease)...this virus is only in the early stages of finding it's niche in humans, so we really don't know where it will end up settling just yet)...

[jparx]

And yes my twitter profile pic is me drinking hot chocolate. I'm aware I'm a total dork.

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

In what world is that a fair way of doing it when vacine dates have been mandated by age/vulnerability...

I find it amusing that a lot of older/vulnerable vaccinated people are suddenly in favour of opening up now they feel safe after their second jabs, when they were the same people in the past criticising younger people for not aderheing to the rules and waiting a little longer until the vulnerable/elderly were safe despite the risk being lower for younger people. 

I think all rules should be gone. But this is a halfway house if the boffins all of a sudden care about young people despite syaing differently the last year

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

1. All of them wear masks inside something which you show issue with.

2. When I say loose restrictions it's literally meeting people at parks.

Why don't you get a grip.

Why should anyone stick with restrictions when thousands of footie fans can go to Wembley without masks?

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, jparx said:

Very well said:

Well put from turner. Enough is enough

[zahidf]

Just now, eFestivals said:

Why should anyone stick with restrictions when thousands of footie fans can go to Wembley without masks?

Why should we even have restrictions now? the case for it is VERY weak

[MrBarry465]

3 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

I wear a mask inside.  I just wore a mask dropping my kids at school in the fresh air FFS.

You have been exposed as two faced.  You and your mates.  The rules are for others clearly. 

You chastise people who wear masks though.

Just the other day you sounded like you were on the verge of berating someone because they want to wear a mask outside?

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

Just now, zahidf said:

I think all rules should be gone. But this is a halfway house if the boffins all of a sudden care about young people despite syaing differently the last year

No, it's a way to shaft younger people again to satisfy the older generation. 

Young people with minimal risk endured 18 months of this to safeguard the vulnerable & elderly. Now the tables are somewhat turned you think it's fair to exclude younger people from a large part of society so that the privileged vaccinated can go back to business as usual...

(I agree all restrictions should end now, but that wasn't what we were talking about here.) 

[MrBarry465]

Just now, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

No, it's a way to shaft younger people again to satisfy the older generation. 

Young people with minimal risk endured 18 months of this to safeguard the vulnerable & elderly. Now the tables are somewhat turned you think it's fair to exclude younger people from a large part of society so that the privileged vaccinated can go back to business as usual...

(I agree all restrictions should end now, but that wasn't what we were talking about here.) 

By pushing reopening back, doesn't that mean that we are not singling out people who have been vaccinated?

Gives young people a chance to get jabbed while rules are still in place?

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

Just now, MrBarry465 said:

By pushing reopening back, doesn't that mean that we are not singling out people who have been vaccinated?

Gives young people a chance to get jabbed while rules are still in place?

Yes? I wasn't saying otherwise? 

He suggested vaccinated people should have no restrictions now. I pointed out why that wasn't fair. Either end for all, or push back until everyone has a chance to be vaccinated. 

[MrBarry465]

1 minute ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

Yes? I wasn't saying otherwise? 

He suggested vaccinated people should have no restrictions now. I pointed out why that wasn't fair. Either end for all, or push back until everyone has a chance to be vaccinated. 

Ah yes I got you now.

Yeah I agree, it needs to be a rule for all. I'm vaccinated but wouldn't want weird privelages over others who have not had a chance. 

[MrBarry465]

Just now, Barry Fish said:

Young people aren't at risk ffs.  Why do we continue to peddle the myth the young are in danger!

Right so im the asshole, but you want to push a load of young people out without them being jabbed - so you can get back to normal?

No, they should be given the chance and not prodded out to accpept the risks for your sake.

 

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

1 minute ago, Barry Fish said:

Young people aren't at risk ffs.  Why do we continue to peddle the myth the young are in danger!

I didn't say they were, I was pointing out why it wasn't fair to have one rule for the vaccinated & one rule for those who aren't (predominantly younger people).

Man this place is toxic of late. 

[discgoesmic]

12 minutes ago, jparx said:

Very well said:

I had actually just read this, couldn't agree more. I watched his live gig in November and he had written a song about the day lockdown ends, people rubbing their eyes and dancing in the street - hopefully we'll get there eventually!

Frank has quickly became one of my best artists. Looking forward to seeing him live again soon!

[JB15]

4 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

Right so im the asshole, but you want to push a load of young people out without them being jabbed - so you can get back to normal?

No, they should be given the chance and not prodded out to accpept the risks for your sake.

 

I should say I’ve supported every lockdown (thinking most should have been done earlier tbh), but with a minimal risk to young people, shouldn’t they be given the choice to either live their lives fully or, if they’re not ready yet, they don’t have to go out and go to the office, party etc?

[MrBarry465]

Just now, Barry Fish said:

There isn't a risk.  The chances of someone under the age of 30 getting ill / dieing is incredibly low.  You literally have more chance of dieing in the bath.

There are 12 million people between the ages of 18 and 30 in the UK.

I would say letting coronavirus rip through them, with no vaccination, causes a lot more damage than what you think. Even if say 1% of them require hospital treatment - that's still 120,000 people ffs.

[Ed90]

Long time lurker, first time poster (in this thread).  Didn't quite expect this thread to develop into something as virulent and divisive as Twitter, but here we are.  

A lot of posts here suggesting people aren't looking at the data, or interpreting it correctly.  I would suggest following someone like @JamesWard73 on Twitter to understand WHY we're extending 4 weeks.  As with Frank Turner above, I'm really really struggling with this, and feel like Feb 2021 and RIGHT NOW are my lowest points of the pandemic.  It affects my work, my relationship and my mental health.  But even with that, I think that a slight delay will help with the 'exit wave' and prevent the NHS being overwhelmed, or at least (in 2 weeks) allow us to get a fuller picture of the data and see that that scenario may not be borne out and we can unlock then.  We're basically weighing lives against business/mental health/incomes etc, and that is fucking hard enough even with a full picture of the data.  I also hate the shit out of the Tories and Johnson, BUT I'm almost certain half of the people calling for unlocking now were also the ones criticising the Tories for unlocking to early last time and not paying heed to the Kent variant.  You can kind of understand their caution, surely?  The fact that hospitalisations aren't tailing off in the NW and the fact that young people are being hospitalised (coupled with the spectre of long covid), suggests opening up nightclubs right now MIGHT not be the best idea.  But, I don't know, and I really really want to get back to normal, and I think there is a possibility that deaths may stay in the 10-20 per day range, which is probably broadly acceptable?  But...nuance and uncertainty isn't fashionable.  So, let the abuse commence...

[steviewevie]

54 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

It was good to see normal service resumed for the football yesterday all over the country. I'm not sure that many people are still following social distancing at all unless forced to are they?

 

Sick of that three lions song already

[Jcatley]

The worst thing about the 4 week extension is that this thread has to stay open for a further 4 weeks. Used to be informative but now just mainly consists of constant bickering.

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

The problem with your moronic line of thought though is 1% won't require hospital treatment as the numbers turning up at A&E and are way way way below 1%.

You literally have no clue on the real dangers,

Also assumes that 100% of people unprotected would get Covid. Which they wouldnt. 

[MrBarry465]

3 minutes ago, Ed90 said:

Long time lurker, first time poster (in this thread).  Didn't quite expect this thread to develop into something as virulent and divisive as Twitter, but here we are.  

A lot of posts here suggesting people aren't looking at the data, or interpreting it correctly.  I would suggest following someone like @JamesWard73 on Twitter to understand WHY we're extending 4 weeks.  As with Frank Turner above, I'm really really struggling with this, and feel like Feb 2021 and RIGHT NOW are my lowest points of the pandemic.  It affects my work, my relationship and my mental health.  But even with that, I think that a slight delay will help with the 'exit wave' and prevent the NHS being overwhelmed, or at least (in 2 weeks) allow us to get a fuller picture of the data and see that that scenario may not be borne out and we can unlock then.  We're basically weighing lives against business/mental health/incomes etc, and that is fucking hard enough even with a full picture of the data.  I also hate the shit out of the Tories and Johnson, BUT I'm almost certain half of the people calling for unlocking now were also the ones criticising the Tories for unlocking to early last time and not paying heed to the Kent variant.  You can kind of understand their caution, surely?  The fact that hospitalisations aren't tailing off in the NW and the fact that young people are being hospitalised (coupled with the spectre of long covid), suggests opening up nightclubs right now MIGHT not be the best idea.  But, I don't know, and I really really want to get back to normal, and I think there is a possibility that deaths may stay in the 10-20 per day range, which is probably broadly acceptable?  But...nuance and uncertainty isn't fashionable.  So, let the abuse commence...

Great first post, well thought out and welcome 🙂 

[tigger123]

I really hope that in the press conference later, a journalist asks Vallance/Whitty whether June 21st would have gone ahead if we had put India on the red list straight away, so that they can hang Boris out to dry

[MrBarry465]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Sick of that three lions song already

Its such a shit song, I absolutely loath it.