When will this shit end?

[efcfanwirral]

 

1 hour ago, Barry Fish said:

Sounds really challenging.

Whatever peoples view points on unlocking etc some of the comments here about working to the June 21st as a date show a real lack of business understanding in some of the posters.  They don't realise that you can't turn a profit with the current restrictions and if there is going to be a unlocking on the 21st then you need to have your supply chain, staff etc all in place and ready.  Business had no choice but to plan for the 21st and moving the date is now a major issue for a lot of business.

A "few more weeks" isn't a little thing at all.  

 

58 minutes ago, El Matador said:

I would've agreed with that previously. However here we are with everyone that has a statistically relevant chance of dying from covid fully vaccinated and yet we're still not lifting restrictions. Not sure how much lower the bar needs to go. 

Well I can guarantee that the bar won't be lower in 5 weeks time if we're seeing these rises with the current level of restrictions. It'll be the peak of this "wave" 

I just wish they'd be honest about it. Social distancing is with us til next summer (at least) - they're just giving us false hope dates again. Then they'll give us another, then it'll be schools going back and we need to protect the children. Then boosters, then height of winter so NHS can't cope (and even if we do get a couple of months of a bit more stuff, this will happen anyway- it'll be a brutal winter healthcare wise and strong restrictions are inevitable) 

Not even saying it from a conspiracy point of view (though questions may need to be asked if we're under similar or even more restrictions this time next year). This is what the scientists will have said as a long term plan, but that plan isn't politically acceptable so they have to psychologically manipulate us 

 

[Matt42]

Just now, Ozanne said:

Boris Johnson resisted the advice of his own SAGE for a while in both waves so I doubt Indy SAGE has bearing on his decision making process.

Again. You’re talking about direct effect here not indirect effect. Indie Sage get the media pushing the narrative and it gets to the point where media pressure is so strong that the government have to do something. 

The government can’t resist Helen lovejoy public opinion hounding them to do something.

[MrBarry465]

3 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Youngsters, pub lads, holiday lovers no. But the slightly shy / more introverted sort have been absolutely terrified by what’s going on. I reckon some of them may never be the same at a crowd or gathering again.

You are really underestimating the humans minds ability to adapt.

It will just take longer for some people but by next summer I doubt too many people have lingering concerns.

[steviewevie]

Just now, Matt42 said:

Again. You’re talking about direct effect here not indirect effect. Indie Sage get the media pushing the narrative and it gets to the point where media pressure is so strong that the government have to do something. 

The government can’t resist Helen lovejoy public opinion hounding them to do something.

Johnson cares what the Mail and Telegraph say and they've been pushing to open for ages.

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

Me and the family went to the pub for an hour last night while waiting for our take away to be ready for collection. First time I'd been in on a Friday night for ages... It was almost at Covid capacity and it felt really loud. It was brilliant to hear the vibrancy of life again. 

Was speaking to the landlord. Thet can't really afford to keep going on the limited capacity. If they are on limited capacity at either the football or the pub he can't see how they will be able to carry on much longer. 

[Matt42]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

Johnson cares what the Mail and Telegraph say and they've been pushing to open for ages.

The daily mail is a mixed bag. They report both anti-lockdown and virus fear mongering. For every article I can find saying that lockdown is bad I could equally find one that says the delta variant is the most deadly thing we’ve ever seen.

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Matt42 said:

Until the media start hounding him to do something. 
 

I think where you and me disagree is you’re looking for direct effect, whereas I’m talking about indirect effect. Obviously Indie Sage are not writing policy, but their actions put a snowball in motion which ends up in policy making. It all comes down to fear. Once the media get the story that there is a risk they don’t exactly pull the story.

I see an element of that ... but also think there are just far too many things and people poking their pennies worth in to lay some kind of blame at one group of trained scientists .... where there are plenty of other people untrained that want something out of the government to also influence decisions .... take Tim wetherspoon for one ... how much influence did he have on pubs reopening and eat out to help out ?  and all those people with Boris phone number .... 

[Ryan1984]

6 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Youngsters, pub lads, holiday lovers no. But the slightly shy / more introverted sort have been absolutely terrified by what’s going on. I reckon some of them may never be the same at a crowd or gathering again.

Exactly this. I went out for a lunch with friends last week and we got to talking about gigs. Me and my mate said we’d be happy to go to outdoor ones over the summer but someone else there was adamant they wouldn’t go to one - inside or outdoors - until next year at the earliest.

We’re going to need some strong public health messaging to reassure people they can go out and do stuff again.

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Barry Fish said:

Clearly not right now...  Old Boris would of pressed ahead I feel.

maybe some uncertainty because of pressure over past failures in getting his timings right ? hes fucked it 3x ... does he want to add to that ? 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

8 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Boris Johnson resisted the advice of his own SAGE for a while in both waves so I doubt Indy SAGE has bearing on his decision making process.

The A stands for Advisory. 

You rarely see the members of sage on the media merry go round. They aren't trying to drum up emotive feelings in the electorate which influences the decisions of the government. 

I've accepted an extension and I've accepted its probably never ending. 

If I was PM I'd open up and those who are too scared to leave the house can stay at home and I'd give them a token payment to do so. Probably be cheaper than letting the rest of the population get back to being humans. 

[zahidf]

Fake SAGE telling people off for saying how good the vaccines are

 

[Ozanne]

9 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Again. You’re talking about direct effect here not indirect effect. Indie Sage get the media pushing the narrative and it gets to the point where media pressure is so strong that the government have to do something. 

The government can’t resist Helen lovejoy public opinion hounding them to do something.

This can’t be stressed enough. If/when we delay step 4 of the roadmap there is only 1 person to blame, that isn’t the public, the scientists, NHS or the media; that person is Boris Johnson. He kept essentially allowed the Delta variant to come into the country and without that there would be no question about unlocking on the 21st. He is to blame, no one else. 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

Just now, Ozanne said:

This can’t be stressed enough. If/when we delay step 4 of the roadmap there is only 1 person to blame, that isn’t the public, the scientists, NHS or the media; that person is Boris Johnson. He kept essentially allowed the Delta variant to come into the country and without that there would be no question about unlocking on the 21st. He is to blame, no one else. 

Perhaps he wasn't advised to close the boarder? 

[zahidf]

5 minutes ago, Ryan1984 said:

Exactly this. I went out for a lunch with friends last week and we got to talking about gigs. Me and my mate said we’d be happy to go to outdoor ones over the summer but someone else there was adamant they wouldn’t go to one - inside or outdoors - until next year at the earliest.

We’re going to need some strong public health messaging to reassure people they can go out and do stuff again.

Well they won't do that. They'll say (even after two jabs) "be careful".

Hopefully Andre Lloyd webber and some pubs are successful in court and the CRG can pressure from the backbenches. Enough is enough.

[Matt42]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

Fake SAGE telling people off for saying how good the vaccines are

 

Indie SAGE were set up with the purpose to oppose the government at every turn. They don’t want a narrative of things being stable with the current roll out because it means they’ve failed.

[Matt42]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

This can’t be stressed enough. If/when we delay step 4 of the roadmap there is only 1 person to blame, that isn’t the public, the scientists, NHS or the media; that person is Boris Johnson. He kept essentially allowed the Delta variant to come into the country and without that there would be no question about unlocking on the 21st. He is to blame, no one else. 

The delta variant would have come into the country anyway.

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Matt42 said:

The delta variant would have come into the country anyway.

At a later stage ... which would have made an awful lot of difference .... 

[zahidf]

Just now, Barry Fish said:

I don't see how they could ever be successful in court.  Its clearly a decision for our elected governments to be fair.

It's judicial review though. They'll have to explain their reasoning properly. 

[efcfanwirral]

20 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Me and the family went to the pub for an hour last night while waiting for our take away to be ready for collection. First time I'd been in on a Friday night for ages... It was almost at Covid capacity and it felt really loud. It was brilliant to hear the vibrancy of life again. 

Was speaking to the landlord. Thet can't really afford to keep going on the limited capacity. If they are on limited capacity at either the football or the pub he can't see how they will be able to carry on much longer. 

Regular shops closed, supermarkets and amazon still open. Pubs closed, McDonald's open. Just another of the same - to us independents closing down to be replaced by one soulless wetherspoons or other corporate chain is bad. For those at the top its a win

[Ozanne]

12 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Perhaps he wasn't advised to close the boarder? 

Loads of different people at the time were saying India should’ve been put on the red list.

You can’t blame Indy SAGE for the delay and let Johnson off the hook. I know some people (in general, not specifically on here) like to let Johnson get away with everything but this is on him.

[Ozanne]

Covid: PM promises 'caution' over 21 June lockdown end https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57454258

I think this pretty much confirms a delay as he doesn’t want to risk having to go back on any easing in a few weeks time which is a fair call imo. 

[Chapple12345]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Covid: PM promises 'caution' over 21 June lockdown end https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57454258

I think this pretty much confirms a delay as he doesn’t want to risk having to go back on any easing in a few weeks time which is a fair call imo. 

I agree 

What he needs to do on Monday is give the conference with stats and figures as to why the extra 4 weeks would benefit us, perhaps give us estimates of the additional doses that can be done in that time too and also make the point the delay will make us less likely to go back on it as that's been his go to line through all this 

[Crazyfool01]

I guess the wait now is to see if we get anything allowed with negative tests ....

[efcfanwirral]

 

[Chapple12345]

10 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

I guess the wait now is to see if we get anything allowed with negative tests ....

For the time being its a sensible compromise imo, let's us closely reopen and allow things to get going again and minimises risks, if it can be used for trials and international travel it can be for things like events or sports etc