When will this shit end?

[Hannibal Schmitt]

15 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

Yes, vaccination status, negative test or proof of recovery from PCR confirmed Covid in the last 9 months are the three options in the EU green pass.  

 

Edit: I should add that Ireland is a bit of an outlier on this as we currently won't accept rapid tests, but most other places will. They were rigorously tested here and the review group recommended their use, but our CMO is ideologically against them (he's being hauled before the Dáil to explain his position as most of the other people that gave evidence disagree with him...he basically thinks people will get a negative test and go nuts). Hopefully they will see sense and recognise their value, rather than insisting on PCR testing in the previous 72 hours.

 

edit again: in fact, the idealogical opposition to LFTs means that our pilot events (an outdoor concert in Iveagh Gardens, Leinster Rugby V Dragons and some GAA) all take place this month without prior testing (which is brave!). 

This is the system we will use and most other EU countries. Outside much such be possible from 1st July onwards here as these restrictions like attendance limits, curfews, travel in the EU or masks should be gone then. So the evens/festivals which hold out are already planning for the rest of summer. There is still some unclearity about discos and nightclubs (which are allowed to open with masks mandatory indoors) as dancing and standing at the bar seems to be forbidden, at least there is no clear message from the politicians until this stage.

[stuie]

26 minutes ago, Kusy said:

In the UK, vaccination passport plans have reportedly been abandoned. I wonder if this plan will come back?

I find this part hard to believe as we’ve already got a working vaccination passport system on the NHS app with a QR code generator. 

It remains to be seen what it will be used for but it’s not been abandoned!

 

[steviewevie]

28 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

D

 

Interesting...Michie is a behavioural scientist...I mean, it's possible she's right with some of this stuff...people do say we will need to learn to live with covid forever, and I guess might need to adapt accordingly. I like the idea of reducing commutes etc. Don't like the idea of mask wearing and social distancing long term though...that would be kind of shit...and probably impossible.

[zahidf]

11 minutes ago, balthazarstarbuck said:

Not sure why they’re asking the guitarist from Jane’s Addiction tbh.

Just because?

[Stretlow]

18k at the cricket today..

 

great to see

 

[JoeyT]

Just now, Stretlow said:

18k at the cricket today..

 

great to see

 

2021's version of last years Cheltenham festival 👀 I jest.

I agree, great to see.

[Fuzzy Afro]

3 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

2021's version of last years Cheltenham festival 👀 I jest.

I agree, great to see.

Fake SAGE will be having an absolute meltdown which makes it more pleasing. 

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Fake SAGE will be having an absolute meltdown which makes it more pleasing. 

HAVE THEY GOT PREMISSION FROM THEIR FRIENDS AND FAMILY AS WELL FOR BEING LAB RATS

[DeanoL]

 

12 hours ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Also worth noting that lockdown has basically caused this third wave. If we'd gone ahead and reopened fully on 12th April we'd have had a moderately sized exit wave but probably not overwhelmed the NHS, but with the advantage of having achieved herd immunity before Delta got here.

It's an interesting point, but what we don't know is how well natural immunity from infection from previous variants stands up against Delta. Given the vaccines produce a wider immune response than natural immunity, and they're proving to be less effective, it's also possible we'd still get the Delta wave anyway.

2 hours ago, Avalon_Fields said:

I’d like to see a sense of perspective, let’s have daily figures on all preventable deaths. So this would include many cancers, deaths due to alcohol, drugs, smoking, obesity, poor lifestyles, road and travel, suicide, the flu, accidents, heart disease, and then what are we really doing about any of these? They vastly outnumber Covid deaths. Why aren’t we obsessed with these too? As the flu alone causes up to 20,000 deaths every winter, and due to lockdown last winter the flu was greatly reduced, what’s the argument for not locking down every winter? Why don’t those lives mean as much?

Don't we take regular action to prevent all those things too though?

Alcohol: high taxes, minimum unit pricing, licensing hours, laws on serving people who are drunk, etc.
Drugs: we literally arrest people for selling and even taking them
Smoking: we banned it indoors, put big labels about how you'll die if you take them on the packets, and taxed them loads
Obesity / heart disease: we bought in a sugar tax, healthy lifestyles are constantly pushed by the government
Road and travel: speed limits, speed cameras, more rigorous driving tests, enforcement
Suicide: there's been a big push on mental health in recent years but we should be doing more
Accidents: rigorous safety requirements for DIY tools
Flu: vaccination
And the other big difference is that for most of these, you manage your own risk. If you're overweight no-one else is at risk because you are. Where you can put other people at risk, the rules are much more stringent - it's why we banned smoking in public indoor places. It's why if you cause a road accident through dangerous driving you'll end up in jail.

[DeanoL]

 

2 hours ago, JoeyT said:

I've pretty much resigned myself to life never returning to what it was after a long think about it all.

Convince me otherwise.

What it was? Maybe not. We've been through a huge thing. And we might reopen here this year but it'll still be going on in the rest of the world. It will change everything, for sure. It's similar to the world wars in that way - it's a huge global event that will change how we look at things for a long time to come.

From the direct and obvious: pandemic planning, hospital capacity and so forth will all be looked at and improved and there will be big news stories every time a potential pandemic rears its head (which is actually fairly often - this one just happened to be "the big one") - through to the smaller and less obvious: the work from home rabbit won't go back in the hat, which will change lifestyles for many and the distribution of certain services for all.

So yeah, it's going to change things. There might even be casualties along the way: some things we used to have may not really come back in the same way. And some things that were already dying may have been speeded along. Nightclubs and pubs were already in massive decline pre-pandemic. As people learn to live without them, and a generation grow up without being introduced to them, that gets worse.

But gigs and festivals were on the rise pre-pandemic and won't be going anywhere (arguably the massive explosion in live music and comedy over the past decade is one of the reasons that regular pubs and nightclubs are struggling in the first place).

It'll be a different world, and it'll be a few years before the world as a whole emerges out of this, and we stop seeing news stories on it. But it won't necessarily be worse. And much of the change will be things that would have happened over the next decade anyway. It'll just feel a bit more bumpy as it'll all happen at once.

(Like, I'm sure in 20 years time the idea of regularly being able to fly places on holiday for a long weekend in Europe or such will be gone entirely - but we'll barely notice as it'll happen slowly, flight prices going up and up year by year)

[MrBarry465]

4 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

(Like, I'm sure in 20 years time the idea of regularly being able to fly places on holiday for a long weekend in Europe or such will be gone entirely - but we'll barely notice as it'll happen slowly, flight prices going up and up year by year)

This sort of stuff needs to change anyway I'm sorry. Nipping over to Spain for a weekend is a disgusting amount of carbon footprint and needs to be stamped out quickly. 

[DeanoL]

2 hours ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Quick straw poll - for those of us under 40 who have booked both jabs at once - what's the gap?

FWIW, I'm 42, had my AZ 6 weeks ago and my second dose was booked for 12 weeks later.

37, 11 week gap on Pfizer.

1 hour ago, Barry Fish said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/music/news/vaccine-segregation-helping-live-music-return-us-not-britain/

The difference between  the USA and the UK is more stark by the day.  No masks inside theme parks and concerts all set to go.

Meanwhile we shit a brick over nothing.

They have a different relationship with death and medicine there. I know we touched on the hospitals thing but, given the amount of US citizens with no insurance, or at least didn't have anything before Obama-care etc. - there's so many people there that already accept if they get badly ill they likely can't afford treatment and are fucked.

We could open up tomorrow if we decide just not to treat anyone who gets it and you have to pay for private care if you want it. But with the way the NHS works that's not an option.

30 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

It would be a very bold move to use pure vaccine passports with no testing option. Doing that before all adults have been offered a vaccine is a non-starter as it’s discriminatory and would have lawsuits coming in left, right and centre, but even after all adults have been offered one I still see a testing option being offered.

 

And to be honest there’s no reason not to. Given that the vaccines are not 100% effective, you can probably have more confidence that an unvaccinated person with a negative LFT is covid-free compared to a fully vaccinated person without an LFT. 

The two sort of push against each other. Testing is the gold standard really: if I know no-one at the event has COVID, no-one can catch COVID. Vaccines are a decent alternative: even if someone at the event has COVID, everyone is vaccinated so has the best possible chance of not catching it or not having a bad result if they do.

But when you mix both you get an environment where, if the disease still has high prevalence, there's a decent chance you have some asymptomatic vaccinated carriers at a large event. And you're putting them in with people with no vaccine protection, who they can spread it to. You reduce the overall risk of transmission a bit but to me it feels like the answer should be one or the other. And to avoid discrimination that should be testing.

[Radiochicken]

1 hour ago, efcfanwirral said:

D

 

That’s not even indie SAGE, that’s actual SAGE! 🙈 Meltdown incoming!

[DeanoL]

1 minute ago, MrBarry465 said:

This sort of stuff needs to change anyway I'm sorry. Nipping over to Spain for a weekend is a disgusting amount of carbon footprint and needs to be stamped out quickly. 

That, eating meat, and having kids.

[Fuzzy Afro]

1 minute ago, Radiochicken said:

That’s not even indie SAGE, that’s actual SAGE! 🙈 Meltdown incoming!

Michie sits on both fake SAGE and real SAGE which is absolutely bizarre. That should be a fireable offence from her position on real SAGE. 

[MrBarry465]

Just now, DeanoL said:

That, eating meat, and having kids.

I don't have kids or eat meat - so well on page with ya there buddy.

[MrBarry465]

2 minutes ago, Radiochicken said:

That’s not even indie SAGE, that’s actual SAGE! 🙈 Meltdown incoming!

 

hahaha wheres Zahdif when ya need him 😛

[Stretlow]

31 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

2021's version of last years Cheltenham festival 👀 I jest.

I agree, great to see.

Ha ha, I think they all had to submit a negative test (dont quote me on that)

[zahidf]

4 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Michie sits on both fake SAGE and real SAGE which is absolutely bizarre. That should be a fireable offence from her position on real SAGE. 

yeah thats really odd behaviour. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

3 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

This sort of stuff needs to change anyway I'm sorry. Nipping over to Spain for a weekend is a disgusting amount of carbon footprint and needs to be stamped out quickly. 

 

1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

That, eating meat, and having kids.

Just banning stuff that people enjoy isn’t the answer. Especially when there just isn’t the will to take climate change all that seriously from large sections of the population.

 

IMO, lab grown meat is the future. But they’ll need to make it much more affordable than it is now.

 

On flying, they really need to either invest in rapid futuristic bullet trains that can zoom across Europe in a few hours or invent electric air travel. Not many people other than Greta Thunberg types will be changing their behaviour and giving up weekends away to save the climate so governments will need to choose between investing in greener options or just letting the climate die. 

[El Matador]

26 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

 

It's an interesting point, but what we don't know is how well natural immunity from infection from previous variants stands up against Delta. Given the vaccines produce a wider immune response than natural immunity, and they're proving to be less effective, it's also possible we'd still get the Delta wave anyway.

Don't we take regular action to prevent all those things too though?

Alcohol: high taxes, minimum unit pricing, licensing hours, laws on serving people who are drunk, etc.
Drugs: we literally arrest people for selling and even taking them
Smoking: we banned it indoors, put big labels about how you'll die if you take them on the packets, and taxed them loads
Obesity / heart disease: we bought in a sugar tax, healthy lifestyles are constantly pushed by the government
Road and travel: speed limits, speed cameras, more rigorous driving tests, enforcement
Suicide: there's been a big push on mental health in recent years but we should be doing more
Accidents: rigorous safety requirements for DIY tools
Flu: vaccination
And the other big difference is that for most of these, you manage your own risk. If you're overweight no-one else is at risk because you are. Where you can put other people at risk, the rules are much more stringent - it's why we banned smoking in public indoor places. It's why if you cause a road accident through dangerous driving you'll end up in jail.

Whilst I agree that being overweight only puts yourself at risk, its also likely to put more strain on the NHS due to the treatment required further down the line. 

If people really care about the NHS then the best thing to do is to eat healthier, exercise more, stop smoking etc. However it's much easier to stand outside your door clapping once a week then go back to your family size bag of doritos and kid yourself that you've somehow made a positive difference. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

I would like to see flying banned for journeys than can be done with a train time of < 4 hours though. Given airport security times etc there is absolutely no reason why people should be flying from London to Edinburgh or Paris, for example. 

[efcfanwirral]

I have a funny feeling that when Hancock is finished sitting there lying about everything that Cummings may suddenly find this evidence. And that it'll contradict everything Hancock says 

[Havors]

6 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

I have a funny feeling that when Hancock is finished sitting there lying about everything that Cummings may suddenly find this evidence. And that it'll contradict everything Hancock says 

Yes Cummings isnt stupid... he is waiting for Hancock to hang himself even more before releasing any evidence. 

That or Cummings is a compulsive liar and was just full of shit? 

[zahidf]