When will this shit end?

[jimmillen]

This thread is bloody infuriating, I can't ignore it 'cos it's still the single quickest source of genuinely useful insight & links about all this shit. 

But OTOH, it's got to a point now where we have grown adults acting with less maturity than my 6 year old.

A few of y'all possibly need to take a break and go for a nice walk or something, is what I'm saying.

[tigger123]

Without meaning to sound pedantic, surely those who exercise the most caution are always going to be proved to be 'right' when we're basing 'right' on Covid metrics, namely cases, hospitalisations and deaths. If I said we need to live in full lockdown for 10 years from now, then I'm sure I'd be proven to be 'right' as we'd see lower case numbers, lower hospitalisations numbers and lower death numbers than if we opened up. The reality is however that there are other things that need to be taken into account in the real world, things like the economy, people's mental wellbeing, employment etc. Indie Sage tend not to focus too much on these, maybe some focus on schools but not really.

I think that is my main issue with the Indie Sage lot, they will always be able to say we told you so, because they are mainly looking purely at Covid metrics, whereas the government needs to consider everything. There will never be a perfect time to release all restrictions, yes some times are better than others, but at some point we will have to take the jump and regardless of when that is, cases, hospitalisations and probably deaths will rise, but it doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't the right thing to do, as we cannot live like this forever. It is unsustainable, not only economically, but also because enough people will eventually stop complying, especially once they're double jabbed.

[MEGABOWL]

22 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yeah, and there are some out there who are screaming for no lockdowns, some are screaming that covid is fake, or that vaccines fuck you up. And yes, Indie Sage are coming at it from a epidimidingdong/virologist sort of point of view, but that is what they are..you can find economists or social health or mental health experts all saying different things too...and yes, the government has to weigh up all these things. But so far, the virus has outweighed everything...because if we just let the thing go then health care collapses and with that social/mental health and the economy.

There are but they’re not getting anywhere near the same oxygen of publicity as Independent SAGE. I don’t see Ian Brown or, IDK, Jim Corr, on the TV as much as I see Pagel and King.

And it’s OK saying they come at it from a Scientific POV, but if they want to be pushing that POV it either needs to be counterbalanced or they need to be tested on the effects out with ‘just stop Covid at all costs.’

[JoeyT]

Where do we think we'll be with cases today then?

Think we'll be pretty lucky to be sub 6.5k but could see 7k with the bounce following the weekend...

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, tigger123 said:

Without meaning to sound pedantic, surely those who exercise the most caution are always going to be proved to be 'right' when we're basing 'right' on Covid metrics, namely cases, hospitalisations and deaths. If I said we need to live in full lockdown for 10 years from now, then I'm sure I'd be proven to be 'right' as we'd see lower case numbers, lower hospitalisations numbers and lower death numbers than if we opened up. The reality is however that there are other things that need to be taken into account in the real world, things like the economy, people's mental wellbeing, employment etc. Indie Sage tend not to focus too much on these, maybe some focus on schools but not really.

I think that is my main issue with the Indie Sage lot, they will always be able to say we told you so, because they are mainly looking purely at Covid metrics, whereas the government needs to consider everything. There will never be a perfect time to release all restrictions, yes some times are better than others, but at some point we will have to take the jump and regardless of when that is, cases, hospitalisations and probably deaths will rise, but it doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't the right thing to do, as we cannot live like this forever. It is unsustainable, not only economically, but also because enough people will eventually stop complying, especially once they're double jabbed.

yeah, sure...and that is the balancing act government has to make...but in the end has always gone for lockdown because ran out of options. But, again...if you look at the indie sage stuff it is all pretty sensible common sense stuff...

https://www.independentsage.org/category/statements/

[Hannibal Schmitt]

17 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Maybe it will take off in those countries...I think most likely why it's surging here at moment is the connection beween the sub continent and UK...and that there were religious holidays that people were possibly travelling for.

Sure it will pick up here too. Our main advantage is time. Cases are popping up here and there. That is the reason why experts are concerned about the autumn even with vaccination which has picked up speed whole over Europe. I think that you can leave borders open, but the system has to work without many loopholes. We have open borders to most other European Countries since some weeks ago and cases steadily dropped to a very low number on infection/hospitalization. So you can also close borders and if the whole system does not work, there will be variants all the time and the delta will certainly not be the last variant. 

[DeanoL]

1 minute ago, Havors said:

This I agree with. We most definitely reacted too slow in locking down, effective making the lockdowns last longer than they had to. 

Who'd of thunk it? We agree on something 😄 

Lonely? w*nking? Haha wow! I take no pleasure in pointing out when you say something stupid trust me. I would do the same to anyone and expect anyone to do the same to me. But by all means stick with your fallacious ad hominem posts. 

You started with the personal attacks. Congrats on being the first person on this thread (or indeed the entirety of eFests) to enter my ignore list. I've been able to have conversations on here with some of the people most find entirely objectionable (sorry Barry) and we disagree a lot but there's always discussion there - sometimes it's frustrating, but I come away from those discussions feeling like I'm smarter for it - that there's been an interesting exchange of ideas - however wrong-headed those ideas might be.

But you're not interested in that. Literally all you've done the past couple of days is call me stupid and mock me. You're not willing to engage, you're not willing to argue a point. You're not willing to be a grown up. I put it behind me yesterday and figured I'd just ignore you, but you've started off again now with your pathetic attempts at bullying, and while I'm happy to have a slanging match (god knows, there's plenty to pick fault with) I don't really think it's fair on the other posters here to ruin the thread by doing that.

So yeah, congrats on winning my award for being the worst person on eFests and getting me to finally use the ignore button. I hope you're so very proud. 

Apologies to everyone else who has to put up with us arguing the past couple of days - it's frustrating as I try and keep discussion to be about actual topics and things, but it's hard to engage constructively when someone just posts to call you stupid. But it also feels wrong to ignore it. But won't happen any more as he'll be on ignore so you can have your thread back!

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, MEGABOWL said:

There are but they’re not getting anywhere near the same oxygen of publicity as Independent SAGE. I don’t see Ian Brown or, IDK, Jim Corr, on the TV as much as I see Pagel and King.

 

is that a serious statement? The likes of Carl Henehan was on tv all the time last year and was even in downing st dolling out his herd immunity advice last autumn...but now he just gets to go on TalkRadio. Pagel's reputation has risen, because many have realised you can't just ignore this virus and it will go away...including Boris Johnson.

[DeanoL]

7 minutes ago, tigger123 said:

Without meaning to sound pedantic, surely those who exercise the most caution are always going to be proved to be 'right' when we're basing 'right' on Covid metrics, namely cases, hospitalisations and deaths. If I said we need to live in full lockdown for 10 years from now, then I'm sure I'd be proven to be 'right' as we'd see lower case numbers, lower hospitalisations numbers and lower death numbers than if we opened up. The reality is however that there are other things that need to be taken into account in the real world, things like the economy, people's mental wellbeing, employment etc. Indie Sage tend not to focus too much on these, maybe some focus on schools but not really.

I think that is my main issue with the Indie Sage lot, they will always be able to say we told you so, because they are mainly looking purely at Covid metrics, whereas the government needs to consider everything. There will never be a perfect time to release all restrictions, yes some times are better than others, but at some point we will have to take the jump and regardless of when that is, cases, hospitalisations and probably deaths will rise, but it doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't the right thing to do, as we cannot live like this forever. It is unsustainable, not only economically, but also because enough people will eventually stop complying, especially once they're double jabbed.

But the economy was damaged by the long lockdowns, and the long lockdowns happened because the government were too late to act, and didn't act when Indie Sage were saying to.

It's a fallacy to believe that there was a trade-off between economy and COVID deaths. The economy does well when hosptalisations/infections are low. Look at Australia, New Zealand, or even China. 

It's different now, as we're mostly vaccinated and this is the home stretch, but think back to last summer, did we all think a second wave was inevitable back then? I don't think we did, I think we had somehow hoped it had gone away. It's weird, but to a degree we thought that, hence opening everything back up, eat out to help out and so on. They're ideas that seem crazy in retrospect but we were all mostly cautiously behind them at the time. Indie SAGE weren't - and they were right. There was a second wave. Had there not been they would indeed have been proven wrong. But, sort of like you're saying your post about them, in retrospect the second wave seems so obvious to us now, we forget we weren't convinced at the time. But to say "well they predicted the second wave" doesn't sound impressive any more because we've all convinced ourselves that of course we all knew there would be a second wave all along.

[DeanoL]

15 minutes ago, jimmillen said:

This thread is bloody infuriating, I can't ignore it 'cos it's still the single quickest source of genuinely useful insight & links about all this shit. 

But OTOH, it's got to a point now where we have grown adults acting with less maturity than my 6 year old.

A few of y'all possibly need to take a break and go for a nice walk or something, is what I'm saying.

Genuinely sorry for my part in that!

[squirrelarmy]

Because it’s a pain to find when you’re using your phone. Here’s a nice handy link for people to use if they feel they need to. 
 

https://www.efestivals.co.uk/forums/ignore

[efcfanwirral]

30 posts in just over 40 mins. Wow

Edited June 8, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[jimmillen]

1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

Genuinely sorry for my part in that!

No bother. I'd have been hitting the ignore button a lot earlier if I was you, fair play for trying to engage constructively! 🙂

[Havors]

1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

You started with the personal attacks. Congrats on being the first person on this thread (or indeed the entirety of eFests) to enter my ignore list. I've been able to have conversations on here with some of the people most find entirely objectionable (sorry Barry) and we disagree a lot but there's always discussion there - sometimes it's frustrating, but I come away from those discussions feeling like I'm smarter for it - that there's been an interesting exchange of ideas - however wrong-headed those ideas might be.

But you're not interested in that. Literally all you've done the past couple of days is call me stupid and mock me. You're not willing to engage, you're not willing to argue a point. You're not willing to be a grown up. I put it behind me yesterday and figured I'd just ignore you, but you've started off again now with your pathetic attempts at bullying, and while I'm happy to have a slanging match (god knows, there's plenty to pick fault with) I don't really think it's fair on the other posters here to ruin the thread by doing that.

So yeah, congrats on winning my award for being the worst person on eFests and getting me to finally use the ignore button. I hope you're so very proud. 

Apologies to everyone else who has to put up with us arguing the past couple of days - it's frustrating as I try and keep discussion to be about actual topics and things, but it's hard to engage constructively when someone just posts to call you stupid. But it also feels wrong to ignore it. But won't happen any more as he'll be on ignore so you can have your thread back!

Your ignorance is astounding. I guess someone pointing out the very stupid things you have said would make you not like them. 

You don't discuss. You make statements... then when you are shown how what you have said is nonsense you seem to think people are picking on you? Its pathetic. 

And now here we are with another logical fallacy... appealing to emotion. 

I will say it again in case you haven't pressed the ignore button yet... I have no problem with you. I agree with some of the things you say. I would call anyone out who says something stupid. You shouldn't let the internet make you lose your temper so much and start personal attacks on people. 

👋

[Hannibal Schmitt]

15 minutes ago, Hannibal Schmitt said:

Sure it will pick up here too. Our main advantage is time. Cases are popping up here and there. That is the reason why experts are concerned about the autumn even with vaccination which has picked up speed whole over Europe. I think that you can leave borders open, but the system has to work without many loopholes. We have open borders to most other European Countries since some weeks ago and cases steadily dropped to a very low number on infection/hospitalization. So you can also close borders and if the whole system does not work, there will be variants all the time and the delta will certainly not be the last variant. 

According to the British government, the so-called delta variant (B.1.617.2) of the coronavirus is 40 percent more contagious than the original form of the Covid-19 pathogen. It provides a "weighty argument in favor of vaccination," wrote the Austrian virologist Andreas Bergthaler on Twitter.

As the scientist from the Research Center for Molecular Medicine (CeMM) of the Academy of Sciences (ÖAW) further explains, the mutation in Great Britain spread widely in clusters from the end of March and the former dominant variant B.1.1.7, formerly British and now Alpha -Mutation called, replaced. According to Bergthaler, it is only found sporadically in less than one percent of new infections in Austria, and it has not yet been detected in wastewater. According to the
AGES variant report, individual cases of the mutation occur, the latest data is available for the last week of May, there were three suspected cases in Vienna.

According to Bergthaler, current vaccination data from Biontech and AstraZeneca show that full immunization also works against Delta. The first vaccination alone seems to be much less protective, which is why Great Britain has now increased vaccination efforts (Der Standard).

[Havors]

2 minutes ago, jimmillen said:

No bother. I'd have been hitting the ignore button a lot earlier if I was you, fair play for trying to engage constructively! 🙂

Well when you have finished virtue signalling, hit the ignore button yourself. 

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Havors said:

Your ignorance is astounding. I guess someone pointing out the very stupid things you have said would make you not like them. 

You don't discuss. You make statements... then when you are shown how what you have said is nonsense you seem to think people are picking on you? Its pathetic. 

And now here we are with another logical fallacy... appealing to emotion. 

I will say it again in case you haven't pressed the ignore button yet... I have no problem with you. I agree with some of the things you say. I would call anyone out who says something stupid. You shouldn't let the internet make you lose your temper so much and start personal attacks on people. 

👋

he's ignoring you

[Havors]

Just now, steviewevie said:

he's ignoring you

You didnt read my post did you? 

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Hannibal Schmitt said:

According to the British government, the so-called delta variant (B.1.617.2) of the coronavirus is 40 percent more contagious than the original form of the Covid-19 pathogen. It provides a "weighty argument in favor of vaccination," wrote the Austrian virologist Andreas Bergthaler on Twitter.

As the scientist from the Research Center for Molecular Medicine (CeMM) of the Academy of Sciences (ÖAW) further explains, the mutation in Great Britain spread widely in clusters from the end of March and the former dominant variant B.1.1.7, formerly British and now Alpha -Mutation called, replaced. According to Bergthaler, it is only found sporadically in less than one percent of new infections in Austria, and it has not yet been detected in wastewater. According to the
AGES variant report, individual cases of the mutation occur, the latest data is available for the last week of May, there were three suspected cases in Vienna.

According to Bergthaler, current vaccination data from Biontech and AstraZeneca show that full immunization also works against Delta. The first vaccination alone seems to be much less protective, which is why Great Britain has now increased vaccination efforts (Der Standard).

weren't EU countries having less of a gap between doses...so they will have more of the older/vulnerable population double dosed?

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Havors said:

You didnt read my post did you? 

no

[Havors]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

no

😄😄 

[jimmillen]

1 minute ago, Havors said:

Your ignorance is astounding. I guess someone pointing out the very stupid things you have said would make you not like them. 

You don't discuss. You make statements... then when you are shown how what you have said is nonsense you seem to think people are picking on you? Its pathetic. 

And now here we are with another logical fallacy... appealing to emotion. 

I will say it again in case you haven't pressed the ignore button yet... I have no problem with you. I agree with some of the things you say. I would call anyone out who says something stupid. You shouldn't let the internet make you lose your temper so much and start personal attacks on people. 

👋

I'm naturally a sarcastic bastard, but going to rein that in and speak plainly.

What you've been doing over the past god knows how many pages is to needle and taunt DeanoL.

You've deliberately misinterpreted what he's written to better serve your points.

You've picked up on minor errors as some sort of "gotcha" moment to prove that everything he says is wrong.

You've revelled in pointing out these mistakes and jeered at him with some of the other posters on here.

I've got no agenda here, but your posts have come across as crass, juvenile and in poor faith. 

I'm not going to speculate on why you've felt it necessary to act like this, but it's certainly not added much value to the thread.

Don't pretend now that it's DeanoL who's being unreasonable, you've deliberately provoked him for days now. Frankly I'm amazed he continued trying to engage for as long as he did. 

[adforperu]

Is there 3496 pages of this?

[squirrelarmy]

1 minute ago, adforperu said:

Is there 3496 pages of this?

This isn’t even the first thread. 

[CurlyPutz]

46 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

...think I've wandered into the wrong thread...

 

Me too man.