When will this shit end?

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, tigger123 said:

But you know that support won't come, it hasn't so far so why would it start now? Also, Hancock said this in December. The goal posts just keep on shifting. If everyone in groups 1-9 hasn't been offered a second dose by June 21st, then I agree we should extend by a couple of weeks. If they have, which it is looking increasingly likely that they will have done with the shortening of second dose window to 8 weeks, then we need to reopen in full.

Yup. Completely moving the goalposts and taking the piss with people's good will with agreeing with the restrictions. Its been 15 months, enough is enough.

[thewayiam]

13 hours ago, efcfanwirral said:

You know what fuck it I'm not going down the road my original reply started down...

Just don't get drawn into the culture war just yet - this small rise is not anti vaxxers.  Wait ril everyone has been offered one before starting the hate. There will be cases in vaccinated people so cases will never be zero

(And for anyone who saw the original reply yes I'm a vaccine sceptic but yes I'm taking it because I'm expected to)

I have no hate towards it and I think it's a mix of all things. As I've said people are welcome to say yes or not. But if you don't have it, you are more at risk of contracting/spreading etc. Also if you don't have it, those vaccinated numbers won't suddenly rise for no reason.

But is is not a small rise, it's a tripling of new family cases.

If you don't want it then don't be forced to have it.

[stuie]

1 hour ago, dotdash79 said:

So last night I had to cancel my second dose due to work that was due on the 19th of July, when I went to rebook it was giving me dates 3 weeks earlier. 
 

It looks like the 8 week gap is for all groups now as I’m 41. 

I’m 40 and my appointment got cancelled and I got a text to rebook. Had my second jab on Thursday 7.5 weeks after first.

[Ozanne]

5 minutes ago, tigger123 said:

But you know that support won't come, it hasn't so far so why would it start now? Also, Hancock said this in December. The goal posts just keep on shifting. If everyone in groups 1-9 hasn't been offered a second dose by June 21st, then I agree we should extend by a couple of weeks. If they have, which it is looking increasingly likely that they will have done with the shortening of second dose window to 8 weeks, then we need to reopen in full.

The support should come and if that’s the reason that step 4 isn’t delayed then that’s not a good enough reason for me. We are a rich country, we can afford it, it’s a political decision to not support these businesses properly and should be treated as such. It’s an economic issue and questions need to be asked of the Chancellor.

As I said in the context that we stay with what we have which isn’t that bad or move to something slightly better, then I don’t think a short delay whilst we get many more fully vaccinated is that bad with government support being available to those businesses that will be impacted. 

[MEGABOWL]

1 hour ago, kalifire said:

In fairness, of all the trips she could make, wild camping in the middle of nowhere has to be one of the most Covid safe. 

Unless the midges can catch Covid off her. Scotland will be wiped out within days if the midges get the Plague.

[tigger123]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

The support should come and if that’s the reason that step 4 isn’t delayed then that’s not a good enough reason for me. We are a rich country, we can afford it, it’s a political decision to not support these businesses properly and should be treated as such. It’s an economic issue and questions need to be asked of the Chancellor.

As I said in the context that we stay with what we have which isn’t that bad or move to something slightly better, then I don’t think a short delay whilst we get many more fully vaccinated is that bad with government support being available to those businesses that will be impacted. 

And I agree with you, it's not a good enough excuse but its a reality unfortunately, and so when we call for restrictions to be lengthened, that recommendation should be done knowing how in reality this is going to impact business, not a fantasy world where the tories actually put their hands in their pockets!

 

Out of interest, when would you open up fully if not once groups 1-9 are fully vaccinated? 

[steviewevie]

21 minutes ago, tigger123 said:

But you know that support won't come, it hasn't so far so why would it start now? Also, Hancock said this in December. The goal posts just keep on shifting. If everyone in groups 1-9 hasn't been offered a second dose by June 21st, then I agree we should extend by a couple of weeks. If they have, which it is looking increasingly likely that they will have done with the shortening of second dose window to 8 weeks, then we need to reopen in full.

it's a changing situation...the vaccines are a bit less effective against this variant, and not all are double dosed yet....and we still don't know how bad hospitalisations is going to get as cases rise, hopefully won't be too bad and most restrictions can be lifted June 21st or not long after, but we just don't know yet.

[philipsteak]

15 minutes ago, MEGABOWL said:

Unless the midges can catch Covid off her. Scotland will be wiped out within days if the midges get the Plague.

Now if there was a variant which only affected midges... 

[efcfanwirral]

22 minutes ago, thewayiam said:

I have no hate towards it and I think it's a mix of all things. As I've said people are welcome to say yes or not. But if you don't have it, you are more at risk of contracting/spreading etc. Also if you don't have it, those vaccinated numbers won't suddenly rise for no reason.

But is is not a small rise, it's a tripling of new family cases.

If you don't want it then don't be forced to have it.

Nah everyone should take it but I just think we can't get drawn into the blaming of people at this point when the most socially active people aren't able to get the vaccine. That's playing right into the hands of the people who let the variant in in the first place 

Autumn is when the real vax vs anti vax war happens 

[steviewevie]

What can the UK government do to stave off a third Covid wave?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/05/what-can-the-uk-government-do-to-stave-off-a-third-covid-wave

[kalifire]

44 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

there's no way of knowing what the right decision is

There are some pretty big clues from places which have and haven’t opened up. Cases will inevitably rise in the short term, as will hospitalisations and probably deaths - that much feels obvious. But with most of the country vaccinated, I think a tipping point is reached between a functioning society and the harm a virus can do amongst a largely immune population. If hospitals can cope and people who need the vaccine have access to it, I think the burden of responsibility for protection switches from the state to the individual. 

Edited June 5, 2021 by kalifire

[eFestivals]

8 minutes ago, kalifire said:

There are some pretty big clues from places which have and haven’t opened up. Cases will inevitably rise in the short term, as will hospitalisations and probably deaths - that much feels obvious. But with most of the country vaccinated, I think a tipping point is reached between a functioning society and the harm a virus can do amongst a largely immune population. If hospitals can cope and people who need the vaccine have access to it, I think the burden of responsibility for protection switches from the state to the individual. 

There's still a lot of unvaccinated people (youngsters) to help spread the virus.

[BobWillis2]

Just now, eFestivals said:

There's still a lot of unvaccinated people (youngsters) to help spread the virus.

To each other. 

[tigger123]

20 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

it's a changing situation...the vaccines are a bit less effective against this variant, and not all are double dosed yet....and we still don't know how bad hospitalisations is going to get as cases rise, hopefully won't be too bad and most restrictions can be lifted June 21st or not long after, but we just don't know yet.

Viruses mutate. The quote from Hancock I mentioned above is from December when the Kent variant was known about so I don’t see what’s changed since then. Yes we have the delta variant now but another variant was always bound to happen, there will be another one we’re worrying about in a few weeks that will be more transmissible, more vaccine resistant etc which will then just be used as another reason to prolong it. We then also get nearer and nearer winter and I think we would be mad to fully open up then when we had the summer to do it. Let’s not forget the WHO said any vaccine that has above 50% efficacy was a good vaccine, our vaccines are way above that and with double dose above that threshold with the delta variant too. If we were going to accept 50% efficacy of vaccines before then what’s stopping us now? 

[Zoo Music Girl]

Getting my second jab today 🙂

I'm still at 11 weeks, didn't bother to try to move it. It's going to be at a centre I volunteered at a while back so will be weird to be on the other side of it! 

[El Matador]

51 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I’ve said before that government support should continue.

This should become an economic issue and should focus on whether Rishi Sunak is spending enough money to support those businesses. 

It's not rishi sunak's money - it's ours. Every week this goes on plunges us further into debt and lowers the living standards for us and future generations.

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, tigger123 said:

Viruses mutate. The quote from Hancock I mentioned above is from December when the Kent variant was known about so I don’t see what’s changed since then. Yes we have the delta variant now but another variant was always bound to happen, there will be another one we’re worrying about in a few weeks that will be more transmissible, more vaccine resistant etc which will then just be used as another reason to prolong it. We then also get nearer and nearer winter and I think we would be mad to fully open up then when we had the summer to do it. Let’s not forget the WHO said any vaccine that has above 50% efficacy was a good vaccine, our vaccines are way above that and with double dose above that threshold with the delta variant too. If we were going to accept 50% efficacy of vaccines before then what’s stopping us now? 

yeah, sure...and maybe we'll be ok...or maybe hospitalisations will rise to a point that we need further restrictions to stop them getting overwhelmed...this is what they're trying to determine. I think we'll be good, but it is currently uncertain...we are lab rats.

[tigger123]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yeah, sure...and maybe we'll be ok...or maybe hospitalisations will rise to a point that we need further restrictions to stop them getting overwhelmed...this is what they're trying to determine. I think we'll be good, but it is currently uncertain...we are lab rats.

Completely agree with you but my point is that we will be in that situation whether we release now or in 5 years time, we will never know for certain either way

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, tigger123 said:

Completely agree with you but my point is that we will be in that situation whether we release now or in 5 years time, we will never know for certain either way

Yes, I know...but I guess we are still at early stage of that new normal.

[squirrelarmy]

The Spanish Flu is still around in a mutated form. Covid is never going to truly vanish due it’s ability to be transmitted and mutate easily. 
 

We’ll get to a point where Covid vaccines become part of the regular vaccines received as a child. Ideally administered at the same time as the TB vaccines. 

[Ozanne]

1 hour ago, tigger123 said:

And I agree with you, it's not a good enough excuse but its a reality unfortunately, and so when we call for restrictions to be lengthened, that recommendation should be done knowing how in reality this is going to impact business, not a fantasy world where the tories actually put their hands in their pockets!

 

Out of interest, when would you open up fully if not once groups 1-9 are fully vaccinated? 

I said the other night that personally I would wait for all adults to be offered a 2nd dose before moving to step 4. Maybe have some things change in 21st June, eg larger groups can meet outdoors. However I realise that is fairly cautious as was pointed out to me.

[Ozanne]

34 minutes ago, El Matador said:

It's not rishi sunak's money - it's ours. Every week this goes on plunges us further into debt and lowers the living standards for us and future generations.

I know what you mean but it’s a fallacy that we have to pay back this debt. The money has essentially been loaned to us by the BoE which is a state owned entity so if the government were serious about living standards for us and future generations they could look in theory look at such a long repayment schedule that we won’t feel the effects or even look at wiping that debt off. They won’t do that because then it would show the last 10 years of Tory austerity as being a political choice inflicted upon the country by them. 

[efcfanwirral]

52 minutes ago, tigger123 said:

Viruses mutate. The quote from Hancock I mentioned above is from December when the Kent variant was known about so I don’t see what’s changed since then. Yes we have the delta variant now but another variant was always bound to happen, there will be another one we’re worrying about in a few weeks that will be more transmissible, more vaccine resistant etc which will then just be used as another reason to prolong it. We then also get nearer and nearer winter and I think we would be mad to fully open up then when we had the summer to do it. Let’s not forget the WHO said any vaccine that has above 50% efficacy was a good vaccine, our vaccines are way above that and with double dose above that threshold with the delta variant too. If we were going to accept 50% efficacy of vaccines before then what’s stopping us now? 

This is how i feel too, and probably many others because many of us in this country live for our summers and find winter really hard

They'll know this, so hypothetically IF sage said to the government in February "social distancing til everyone has had two, including teenagers" (which realistically does mean you fully open next spring) do we honestly think they'd announce it? Knowing loads of us think that way?

Mark drakeford has long been adamant that social distancing is here for the whole of 2021 - maybe he's just treating his country like adults by telling them the truth and we're treating ours like children by telling them what they want to hear then slowly shifting to the real plan anyway (while drip feeding it through the media for weeks - funny that the Indian variant appeared in the media literally minutes after the mid May announcement of easing) 

If thats what's happening it's not the plan that bothers me, it's the false hope and potentially lies. Setting behavioural psychologists on a nation is not OK 

Edited June 5, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[Fuzzy Afro]

2 hours ago, philipsteak said:

They're going to really miss her

It’s quite soothing tbh. She’s been gone barely 12 hours and I can already feel my blood pressure returning to normal 🙂 

[philipsteak]

37 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

It’s quite soothing tbh. She’s been gone barely 12 hours and I can already feel my blood pressure returning to normal 🙂 

You know there is a way you can continue this feeling for as long as you like