When will this shit end?

[stuartbert two hats]

Just now, Fuzzy Afro said:

J&J will either get thrown in the bin or given to Covax. They have been linked to clots as per AZ. 

Yep, all the adenovirus vector vaccines seem to have the same issue.

@Toilet Duck could this be a permanent issue with the technology? Is it possible/likely that there will be a reformulation that's not associated with so many clots, or is it likely a fundamental issue?

[eFestivals]

I've just read another article about gwenith so have decided to go into competition with her by selling a candle which smells like my dick.im taking pre orders now?

[august1]

Would tweaking the website to separate under 40s needing non Oxford jab and over 40's anything cause a delay? Surprised we haven't moved down the list.

We should also open up to Manchester surrounding areas + Yorkshire who seem to have persistently high case numbers. 

Can't imagine how frustrating it must be to be in Ireland or somewhere who are so far behind us

 

[Fuzzy Afro]

Just now, august1 said:

Would tweaking the website to separate under 40s needing non Oxford jab and over 40's anything cause a delay? Surprised we haven't moved down the list.

We should also open up to Manchester surrounding areas + Yorkshire who seem to have persistently high case numbers. 

Can't imagine how frustrating it must be to be in Ireland or somewhere who are so far behind us

 

Moray - which has twice the 7-day case rate of anywhere else in Scotland - is doing surge vaccination of all remaining adults in the area. Interesting and innovative way to play whack-a-mole on problematic areas during the reopening. Will be good to keep an eye on it and see it they reach herd immunity quickly. 

[Ozanne]

3 hours ago, steviewevie said:

So, from next week can I go into a pub and order a drink at the bar...or do I need to do the sitting at a table and ordering using an app thing?

It'll depend on the bar but it'll be table service, some have an app/online ordering service and some have a member of staff come take your order at the table.

[stuartbert two hats]

6 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Moray - which has twice the 7-day case rate of anywhere else in Scotland - is doing surge vaccination of all remaining adults in the area. Interesting and innovative way to play whack-a-mole on problematic areas during the reopening. Will be good to keep an eye on it and see it they reach herd immunity quickly. 

That's what some on Manchester council are calling for. Makes sense to me.

[Ozanne]

Write up on what will be allowed from May 17 - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-52530518

[Suprefan]

Arent we all just glad we didnt go this far over the edge.

 

 

[Mimo]

52 minutes ago, Leyrulion said:

Presumably because they can stipulate having restrictions on ticketed events, such as testing before attending, through the licence which isn't possible with weddings.

Ahhh yeah, that’ll be it. 

[Toilet Duck]

14 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Yep, all the adenovirus vector vaccines seem to have the same issue.

@Toilet Duck could this be a permanent issue with the technology? Is it possible/likely that there will be a reformulation that's not associated with so many clots, or is it likely a fundamental issue?

At this stage, it’s a bit too early to say. Adenoviral vectored vaccines have been used for a while, but obviously not at the scale they are currently being used. The Denmark/Norway study published recently in the BMJ gave a pretty good description of all the various thrombotic events associated with the use of the AZ jab and the risk is clear (nowhere near the 1:1,000,000 risk that those who were rubbishing the pause to investigate were claiming, closer to 1:10,000 -1:40,000 excess events depending on the type of event (risk of any thrombotic event was doubled, and corresponded to an excess of about 1:33,000 events above those expected normally)). So, investigating this was absolutely the correct call. There are limitations to the study above, the outcomes are complex and are often coded differently in different hospital settings, but data from earlier in the study was similar to that collected later when reports of unusual clotting had emerged, suggesting it was well described throughout. The type of patient was skewed towards younger women too and a few other things, but it’s still the best description of serious adverse outcomes after AZ vaccination yet.

The good news is, while we don’t know the exact trigger (chief suspect is the DNA in the vector getting recognised by antibodies that were made previously to target a prior DNA virus infection), the pathology is almost identical to heparin-induced thrombocytopenia, even down to the type of antibody response that occurs...that means we have a test for it already and we have a treatment for it already (IVIg, available in pretty much any hospital). Early treatment leads to excellent outcomes, so warning patients what to look out for and treating early should limit the damage, meaning the vaccines can still be used. There’s a balance of course in terms of risk for younger people (and the risk from Covid keeps reducing as the vaccinated cohort grows), so the immunisation committees need to weigh this up when making their decisions. In other parts of the world where the pandemic is still raging, the benefits clearly still outweigh the risks, especially now as we can treat the AE if it occurs. There’s still billions of people left to be vaccinated and we still have no idea how long the protection lasts even when you are vaccinated, so we still need lots of vaccine to be made and be used and I’d expect these vaccines to get heavy use still (I reckon I’ll end up with J&J looking at our roll out timeline/predicted deliveries and they are already suggesting here that a booster for that in the autumn will probably be necessary in anticipation of the 2 dose trial proving superiority over the 1 dose regimen...which I’d guess may well be the case, at least in terms of onward transmission).

[eFestivals]

41 minutes ago, Suprefan said:

Arent we all just glad we didnt go this far over the edge.

 

 

Maybe doing wild stuff liked that gives her her glooppy s nake oil ideas to sell

[Toilet Duck]

3 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Any word on when we might approve the vaccine for 12 to 15?

Pfizer has just been approved (emergency use approval) for 12+ in the US, so would expect that they will submit data for an extension of their EUA in the UK fairly soon. The OX/AZ trial in 12+ hasn’t reported yet, so that wasn’t expected to be considered til the summer anyway. 2-12 investigation only starting so that will be a while yet (though if Pfizer get their full approval from the FDA over the summer and look to convert their CMA with the EU to full approval, then that will help them on that front)...

[steviewevie]

7 hours ago, Suprefan said:

Arent we all just glad we didnt go this far over the edge.

 

 

Must admit I ate some bread too.

[Homer]

Everyone's off to Portugal, Gibraltar and Israel apparently:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/10/england-travel-green-list-sends-madeira-holiday-flight-bookings-soaring?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2xooHswpWstCx4PkLQdq3-5zF0JJ9TUb6koE8Z9bkcaRCNYLqS_38XYSw#Echobox=1620665328

[Ozanne]

7 hours ago, Suprefan said:

Arent we all just glad we didnt go this far over the edge.

 

 

She’s one step away from running through fields of wheat 😛

[Mellotr0n]

46 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Must admit I ate some bread too.

Trying to remember if I managed a single pandemic day of NOT eating bread.

(Doubtful.)

[Simsy]

7 hours ago, Toilet Duck said:

The type of patient was skewed towards younger women too and a few other things, but it’s still the best description of serious adverse outcomes after AZ vaccination yet.

I know that drug companies have a habit of not including women when testing new products ("their hormones will ruin our test data, let's just get the drugs approved without finding out how they affect women"), do you reckon that might be what's happened here? Not enough women were included in the trials so these adverse reactions weren't picked up until they started rolling the jabs out?

[steviewevie]

Jennifer Williams thread on jabbing Bolton and other areas with increasing cases of Indian variant.

 

[duke88]

41 minutes ago, Simsy said:

I know that drug companies have a habit of not including women when testing new products ("their hormones will ruin our test data, let's just get the drugs approved without finding out how they affect women"), do you reckon that might be what's happened here? Not enough women were included in the trials so these adverse reactions weren't picked up until they started rolling the jabs out?

One of my friends was turned down for the vaccine trial I'm on because she wasn't on contraception. They can't include women on trials if there is a chance they might get pregnant - I don't think it's because they don't care how they affect women!

[zahidf]

 

[Toilet Duck]

44 minutes ago, Simsy said:

I know that drug companies have a habit of not including women when testing new products ("their hormones will ruin our test data, let's just get the drugs approved without finding out how they affect women"), do you reckon that might be what's happened here? Not enough women were included in the trials so these adverse reactions weren't picked up until they started rolling the jabs out?

To be honest, I think the trials were pretty balanced (maybe a paucity of older individuals in some of them, OX in particular), but the rarity of these adverse effects meant that they weren't picked up. It's pretty standard for very rare events like this to be identified during post-authorisation surveillance as that's when million and billions of people take the product. We still don't really know whether there is any increased risk in younger women, it just happens to be the demographic that got the most of this vaccine as it was rolled out in healthcare workers in many parts of Europe and there's more young women in healthcare (so we need to be careful about drawing conclusions without a balanced cohort to look for trends in). 

[Fuzzy Afro]

5 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

Face nappies should be optional in all settings apart from hospitals, where they should be compulsory (from June 2021). I’m not suggesting everyone should burn their face nappies immediately, but I’d definitely like to see them not being compulsory anymore. 

[JoeyT]

1 minute ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Face nappies should be optional in all settings apart from hospitals, where they should be compulsory (from June 2021). I’m not suggesting everyone should burn their face nappies immediately, but I’d definitely like to see them not being compulsory anymore. 

Mate, I don't like them one bit and would ditch them in a second but seriously even I'm getting bored of the term face nappies!

[squirrelarmy]

4 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

Mate, I don't like them one bit and would ditch them in a second but seriously even I'm getting bored of the term face nappies!

Just call them masks. It’s a nice inoffensive term for them. 

[Ozanne]

It’s gonna be so weird in a few years time going through my draws and seeing at the back my face masks then thinking about this whole period.