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When will this shit end?


Chrisp1986

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28 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

It's possible to think that both:

a) it's unreasonable and unnecessary to wear a mask when going for a walk 5 minutes from your house; and also

b) it's true, based on scientific evidence, that compulsory mask wearing outdoors makes compliance with mask wearing indoors higher, which in turn will have a small impact on spread.

These are not mutually exclusive positions. I agree with both. There are some benefits to be had from having rules about wearing masks outdoors but equally I don't think they're worth the downsides.

I actually think that's the sensible and correct position but apparently it's not allowed and you have to either believe there is zero benefit to wearing masks outdoors, or believe that there's zero downsides to mask wearing.

Is that reasoned and analysis and nuance I see on this? Not just summarising everything to oversimplistic black vs white?

Going to have to have a lie down down.

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27 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Thanks all for the replies on the pub thing. I think it's clear that demand is fairly low - given that only places with outdoor areas can open, and at a very low capacity, certainly there seem to be far fewer people going out that would do in normal times.

The question is if this is COVID-based hesitancy, or just a "can't be arsed with all the hoops and will wait until they're open indoors in a few weeks" hesitancy. 

Weather perhaps also - we've had a few hot days but also some "ok"/borderline cold ones - I wouldn't bother personally on a day when it's borderline cold, it's just not as enjoyable. 

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23 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Best reasonable efforts is an idea recognised in law.for a court to decide on the EU will have to demonstrate it didn't make it's best efforts.or AZ will have to show that the EU undermined its efforts.for a case which is about the EU wanting to save face it looks a risky bet.

surely commission must think they have a pretty good case?

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3 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

Very unusual for the BBC website to run with the accusation rather than the tories rebuttal of it (bet they end up changing it in an hour or so).

I noticed the last few years if it was anything vs labour they'd run with the accusation as the headline quickly, but when it was the tories they'd often wait a while until the tories had refuted it, and would run with that denial as the headline - they're s*** scared of them! 

Peston also saying 2 sources said he did say it

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29 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

have to see what comes out of the court case...and if AZ were making best reasonable efforts...whatever the hell that means..

I think at the end courts will earn most, its simply about money. Best reasonable effort seems to be rather vague but it will be saving faces for both sides. Not for health of people, it won`t bring died people back anymore. 
As also stated it will not have any effect on the delivery problems which will be prolonged in the future (first quarter AZ delivering 30 instead of 180 Mio doses, second 70 instead of 180 Mio doses).  
But when you compare it to the AZ restrictions - how this has been a big topic in media here, this one is relative small news.

Big news is the new green vaccination passport which will work in 3 steps and fully be available in summer. Von der Leyen has already invited US tourists to EU countries as she wants that the US should adapt the passport - thing of winning some ground again.
The reason for breaking with AZ is also simple - the EU has changed its strategy and vaccination is based fully on Biotech/Pfizer which delivers much more than expected.

The contract was extended and the AZ contract expired. So the EU now has a much better position as they are not so dependent on the AZ anymore like they had been weeks ago.

Yeah, a money and reputation thing, but I fear that it wont help to make the situation clearer or better. But yeah, at least the vaccination campaign shows positive effects here now and we already have overtaken Germany with their hard Lockdown with our rather strange strategy having barely any Lockdown at all. 

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3 minutes ago, Hannibal Schmitt said:

I think at the end courts will earn most, its simply about money. Best reasonable effort seems to be rather vague but it will be saving faces for both sides. Not for health of people, it won`t bring died people back anymore. 
As also stated it will not have any effect on the delivery problems which will be prolonged in the future (first quarter AZ delivering 30 instead of 180 Mio doses, second 70 instead of 180 Mio doses).  
But when you compare it to the AZ restrictions - how this has been a big topic in media here, this one is relative small news.

Big news is the new green vaccination passport which will work in 3 steps and fully be available in summer. Von der Leyen has already invited US tourists to EU countries as she wants that the US should adapt the passport - thing of winning some ground again.
The reason for breaking with AZ is also simple - the EU has changed its strategy and vaccination is based fully on Biotech/Pfizer which delivers much more than expected.

The contract was extended and the AZ contract expired. So the EU now has a much better position as they are not so dependent on the AZ anymore like they had been weeks ago.

Yeah, a money and reputation thing, but I fear that it wont help to make the situation clearer or better. But yeah, at least the vaccination campaign shows positive effects here now and we already have overtaken Germany with their hard Lockdown with our rather strange strategy having barely any Lockdown at all. 

so just taking AZ to court to shift the blame to them in the public's eyes? If so, they need to win!

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And the AZ side/view of all this:

The vaccine manufacturer says that it has kept its contract with the EU Commission and will defend itself in court, the company said on Monday in a response to the announcement from Brussels. The EU Commission had previously announced that it had started proceedings on behalf of the 27 member states before a Belgian court due to reduced vaccine deliveries.

"We believe this litigation is unfounded and welcome the opportunity to resolve this dispute as soon as possible," said Astra Zeneca. According to the forecast, almost 50 million vaccine doses will be delivered to the EU countries by the end of April. They are also working on ramping up production as quickly as possible.

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45 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

It's only taken them three months to follow thru on that threat it's almost like they knew they didn't have a good case.

Part of that timescale is that there is a mandatory and legally required mediation/resolution process that had to be undergone between AZ and the EU Commission before any formal legal action could take place hence the delay.

The whole process will likely take years anyway so any impact will eventually be muted but will be interesting to see what documents might be disclosed. Not that it will matter by then.

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59 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

He’s gonna have a lot of shit on him and is gonna be a niggle that will keep dropping bits of info ... they might just decide it needs to stop ... because an ongoing drop might start damaging the party as well as spaffer 

Yeah that's it. It won't be about Johnson - it'll be if it starts to do badly for the party as a whole. 

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Johnson says there is 'very good chance of opening up totally' in England on 21 June

Boris Johnson has also said he thinks there is a good chance that England will be able to open up fully on 21 June. Speaking to reporters, he said:

As things stand I think we’ve got a very good chance of really opening up totally on 21 June.

But we’ve got to be cautious and go on the data not the dates.

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8 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Johnson says there is 'very good chance of opening up totally' in England on 21 June

Boris Johnson has also said he thinks there is a good chance that England will be able to open up fully on 21 June. Speaking to reporters, he said:

As things stand I think we’ve got a very good chance of really opening up totally on 21 June.

But we’ve got to be cautious and go on the data not the dates.

I sincerely hope this is true but the cynic in me can't help but think he'll / they'll (government comms) will be throwing out lots of BS in the hope it deflects away from his comments which have recently come to light...

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14 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Johnson says there is 'very good chance of opening up totally' in England on 21 June

Boris Johnson has also said he thinks there is a good chance that England will be able to open up fully on 21 June. Speaking to reporters, he said:

As things stand I think we’ve got a very good chance of really opening up totally on 21 June.

But we’ve got to be cautious and go on the data not the dates.

dead cat

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"Very good chance" is actually a bit of a climbdown from some of the other language we've seen suggesting that it's absolutely going to happen.

 

I'm very interested in the case numbers in the next 3-4 days. If we were going to see any pub-reopening jump, it should be starting to come through now. Still think indoor mixing on the 17th more likely to cause a rise than the 12th April changes.

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59 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

I sincerely hope this is true but the cynic in me can't help but think he'll / they'll (government comms) will be throwing out lots of BS in the hope it deflects away from his comments which have recently come to light...

Expect the positivity to last until 10pm on May 6th when the polls close, only after then I think will be able to actually judge whether Boris’ current positivity around all restrictions being eased holds 

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4 minutes ago, tigger123 said:

Expect the positivity to last until 10pm on May 6th when the polls close, only after then I think will be able to actually judge whether Boris’ current positivity around all restrictions being eased holds 

 

"All legal restrictions on social contact" was very carefully chosen wording, IMO.

 

A lot of people will be disappointed if 21 June rolls around and there are no longer any legal rules why you can't have a house party, but it's still strongly advised to meet in smaller groups and do so outside where possible, and that face coverings and 1m distancing remain in place in indoor public spaces. Which is entirely possible IMO.

 

I hope social distancing is binned where it belongs and never reintroduced.

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15 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

 

While this data is very encouraging, I'm questioning where these nearly 100 people that are still going to hospital with Covid are coming from.

 

Anti-vaxxers, unlucky youngsters, or the vaccine not working on an unlucky few?

Could they be people going into hospital for other things and testing postive, but with no covid symptoms ? Not sure, not close enough to how all this works, but a possibility ?

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4 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

 

"All legal restrictions on social contact" was very carefully chosen wording, IMO.

 

A lot of people will be disappointed if 21 June rolls around and there are no longer any legal rules why you can't have a house party, but it's still strongly advised to meet in smaller groups and do so outside where possible, and that face coverings and 1m distancing remain in place in indoor public spaces. Which is entirely possible IMO.

 

I hope social distancing is binned where it belongs and never reintroduced.

I see no reason why we can't follow the way israel is going which is getting rid of restrictions due to some sort of herd immunity. Why won't we be there in a few weeks. They can't keep restrictions to meaningful levels if no one is dying which will be the case soon enough.

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1 hour ago, zahidf said:

Johnson says there is 'very good chance of opening up totally' in England on 21 June

Boris Johnson has also said he thinks there is a good chance that England will be able to open up fully on 21 June. Speaking to reporters, he said:

As things stand I think we’ve got a very good chance of really opening up totally on 21 June.

But we’ve got to be cautious and go on the data not the dates.

I feel like this will end with things technically opening up on 21st but with some caveats and not feeling like BAU so Johnson can claim that we're totally opened up. 

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