When will this shit end?

[Toilet Duck]

12 minutes ago, Radiochicken said:

What I don’t understand with the risk based approaches to stopping the vaccines out of caution, is surely in the time they are paused for >>>> will die as a result of not having had the vaccine than would ever die from a potential blood clot.

Like South Africa stopping J&J, that’s just mad to me.

Someone tell me I’m being too simplistic...

The pauses are primarily to update the information provided to medical professionals and to those at the vaccination sites so that they can accurately inform patients of what to look out for. It’s treatable if detected, so important to establish a link and then provide accurate guidance on the use of the vaccine so even this really rare risk can be mitigated. Now that a link has been established, it would be unethical (and indeed negligent) to continue to administer it without informing patients of the risk and key symptoms that mean they should seek medical attention. It won’t ultimately stop the use of the vaccines as in most cases, the benefits still vastly outweigh the risks (though it may shift the demographic they are used in...when that happens, it also means the vaccination programme needs to be altered a bit and that also takes some time to reorganise). 

[steviewevie]

1 hour ago, BobWillis2 said:

I know you’re not the sharpest troll in the box but even you can work out that’s not what I said. 
 

SPI-B hasn’t got nearly 50 members for them to sit around thinking of catchy slogans. 

so what point are you trying to make oh wise one?

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

1 hour ago, BobWillis2 said:

I know you’re not the sharpest troll in the box but even you can work out that’s not what I said. 
 

SPI-B hasn’t got nearly 50 members for them to sit around thinking of catchy slogans. 

Can't believe you didn't say sharpest troll under the bridge.

[BobWillis2]

2 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Can't believe you didn't say sharpest troll under the bridge.

I’ve never really liked RHCP. 

[zahidf]

Yup

[Ozanne]

 

[Ryan1984]

Am I right in thinking that when we move to the next stage in England (hopefully 17 May), we will be able to stay overnight at people’s places?

Would this be limited to two households or would rule of six apply here as well (so you could have three different households staying but no more than six people). Trying to organise a family gathering but don’t want to put anyone at unnecessary risk.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Ryan1984

[Radiochicken]

9 hours ago, Toilet Duck said:

The pauses are primarily to update the information provided to medical professionals and to those at the vaccination sites so that they can accurately inform patients of what to look out for. It’s treatable if detected, so important to establish a link and then provide accurate guidance on the use of the vaccine so even this really rare risk can be mitigated. Now that a link has been established, it would be unethical (and indeed negligent) to continue to administer it without informing patients of the risk and key symptoms that mean they should seek medical attention. It won’t ultimately stop the use of the vaccines as in most cases, the benefits still vastly outweigh the risks (though it may shift the demographic they are used in...when that happens, it also means the vaccination programme needs to be altered a bit and that also takes some time to reorganise). 

Thanks!

What do you think about Germany giving different second jabs to under 60s who’ve had a first of AZ? I know there is no scientific reason why that wouldn’t be a bad thing but they’re replacing a “known” small risk with a “unknown” small risk? Again weird to my simplistic analysis!

[Andre91]

5 minutes ago, Ryan1984 said:

Am I right in thinking that when we move to the next stage in England (17 May), we will be able to stay overnight at people’s places?

Would this be limited to two households or would rule of six apply here as well (so you could have three different households staying but no more than six people). Trying to organise a family gathering but don’t want to put anyone at unnecessary risk.

If six people are allowed to stay overnight in someone’s house, I don’t see how having a couple extra people round will make any difference, personally. If we are allowed up to 30 people in a garden by then, most of which will likely be going in and out to use the toilet, I don’t see why more than six people couldn’t stay round.
 

I personally wouldn’t have anywhere near 30 people round in my garden for a BBQ, for example, but if I had mates drive up to mine for the afternoon and there was seven, eight, nine of them, I wouldn’t be telling only six of them that they can stay round. 

[Ozanne]

37 minutes ago, Ryan1984 said:

Am I right in thinking that when we move to the next stage in England (hopefully 17 May), we will be able to stay overnight at people’s places?

Would this be limited to two households or would rule of six apply here as well (so you could have three different households staying but no more than six people). Trying to organise a family gathering but don’t want to put anyone at unnecessary risk.

I think the rule of 6 applies inside as you outline. But yeah those people can then stay overnight in your place too. 

[Toilet Duck]

27 minutes ago, Radiochicken said:

Thanks!

What do you think about Germany giving different second jabs to under 60s who’ve had a first of AZ? I know there is no scientific reason why that wouldn’t be a bad thing but they’re replacing a “known” small risk with a “unknown” small risk? Again weird to my simplistic analysis!

Yeah, I'm not sure about it either. If they had no response to the first one, it's unlikely that the second one will be any different (reactions so far have been after the 1st shot and there's a hypothesis that those that do get a reaction have already been primed for forming anti-platelet antibodies, possibly via a prior viral infection (not SARS-CoV-2, but a DNA virus at some other time) and the reaction here might be to the DNA in the adenovirus vector as the body thinks it's being infected again...they may be people who would have had this reaction had they been given heparin at some point later in life, but it's still early days on deciphering the exact aetiology of the condition, there's a bunch of possible reasons being suggested and investigated further, but it is something we can test for and something we can treat, which is good). I'd be more inclined to stick with the same vaccine to be honest, though they do all encode the same spike, so should be fine (indeed mixing might even provide better immunity, but it's not fully tested yet...Oxford are in the middle of that trial and they expect to have data from it in the summer, along with the pre-clinical data for their updated variant-specific vaccine). There's a few subtle differences between the various vaccines in use in terms of the nature of the spike they encode though. Pfizer and Moderna were engineered so that when the spike was made by our cells, it gets displayed on the surface of our cells in it's active (pre-fusion) form and it is stabilised so that it doesn't fall off our cells as easily. This means that the neutralising antibodies that are made should be blocking the virus just as it is ready to bind onto ACE2 and infect our cells (and this is at the heart of why it provides good protection from productive infection). The Chinese inactivated vaccine has it in the conformation it adopts after it binds to the receptor, so the neutralising antibodies recognise virus that is already latched on (part of the reason that vaccine might not be as efficacious in terms of stopping infection maybe?) and the Oxford and J&J vaccines didn't engineer the spike, they used the native conformation, but Oxford have recently submitted a paper showing that once expressed in our cells, it does adopt the active conformation, so should lead to the development of a similar antibody repertoire to the mRNA vaccines (hence, mixing these should be very similar...indeed the benefit in terms of immunity might be more pronounced if mixed with the inactivated vaccine, which I guess is why the Chinese are looking at it now)...

[mcshed]

21 hours ago, Quark said:

shifted to one flight a year

How do you get back?

[Quark]

34 minutes ago, mcshed said:

How do you get back?

[steviewevie]

Mix and match

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/14/uk-study-on-mixing-covid-vaccines-between-jabs-to-be-expanded

[guypjfreak]

First time out yesterday for a few pints.. 

Off to the forest Fri for 5 days 

Organised Camping a mates 50th following weekend 

 

My anxiety levels that have been quite OK have started to rise.. Its fucking horrible.... Do I want an end yes am I ready to go back to having panic attacks just to go out.. Nooooooooo

Anyone else feeling like this 

[efcfanwirral]

Screenshotted from sky news live page - a different world! Though I imagine certain cabinet members here wish this was the sort of behaviour they could get away with..

[Zoo Music Girl]

2 hours ago, Ryan1984 said:

Am I right in thinking that when we move to the next stage in England (hopefully 17 May), we will be able to stay overnight at people’s places?

Would this be limited to two households or would rule of six apply here as well (so you could have three different households staying but no more than six people). Trying to organise a family gathering but don’t want to put anyone at unnecessary risk.

From the government guidance for 17 May:

Indoors, the Rule of 6 or 2 households will apply - we will keep under review whether it is safe to increase this.

So it's the same as for outdoors now. Either two households of six people, whichever is bigger, is the max.

 

[Ozanne]

13 minutes ago, guypjfreak said:

First time out yesterday for a few pints.. 

Off to the forest Fri for 5 days 

Organised Camping a mates 50th following weekend 

 

My anxiety levels that have been quite OK have started to rise.. Its fucking horrible.... Do I want an end yes am I ready to go back to having panic attacks just to go out.. Nooooooooo

Anyone else feeling like this 

I felt it more after the first lockdown and I feel elements of it now. I wasn’t having panic attacks, just felt anxious going out. Not so much going back but elements of life that I’m happier with through the pandemic such as working at home.

I think it’s completely normal to be feeling how you are and you definitely aren’t going to be alone. Keeping talking to those around about how you feel and if things do feel like they getting too much don’t be afraid to take a step back. I hope you’ll be ok and have a great time camping!

[stuie]

29 minutes ago, guypjfreak said:

Anyone else feeling like this 

Yep! I’m not ready for the world yet. Might get one of these made! 
 

[gooner1990]

22 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

I had a day off work yesterday and took the kids to the Crocky Trial near Chester.  First time we have been out to an actual activity this year with other families.

It was alright but I had unexplainable anxiousness in me - annoying that people still can't or won't distance when queuing for stuff (even though I know it makes no difference in the open air) - no hope of keeping the kids distanced which you just have to accept but you know its technically wrong so it makes you anxious - people seem to also feeling the same so it all feels a little tense even though everyone is smiling (which is weird)

Its weird and its going to take a while for us to feel normal...

So no - you aren't on your own with this.

 

In my low 40s and I will feel a lot better once I have the vaccine (+3 weeks) - I feel the 40s are the forgotten bunch.  Not really at risk but not home free by any stretch.  Everything unlocking and I feel a little bit in no mans land - specially with young kids who are either doing stuff (and mixing) or locked up at home - there is no middle ground.

I'm normally a very social person and not a week goes by without going to a big football match or a gig and no summer without a couple of festivals or trips to a big city with my girlfriend.  

Even I'm a little bit apprehensive about everything opening up again, one because I'm not vaccinated (I'm 39) and secondly because like others I've not done much socially in the last 15 months or so. 

Got a couple of trips to the pub booked to ease me back in and hopefully I can do a few low key things in bigger crowds before I go to any Euro 2020 games or festivals later this summer. 🙂

[SophieBee]

My unblinding appointment tomorrow for the J&J trial has been postponed, which is not too surprising given the news. They are spending a couple of days going through the data, but expecting to start up again shortly afterwards - was looking forward to finding out whether I had the vaccine or placebo (and getting the single dose jab if it was the placebo), but a few more days to wait isn't the end of the world.

Ironically, as I'm 45 I can now book an NHS vaccine, which would probably be AZ with its similar risk. Oh well!

[efcfanwirral]

 

9 minutes ago, gooner1990 said:

I'm normally a very social person and not a week goes by without going to a big football match or a gig and no summer without a couple of festivals or trips to a big city with my girlfriend.  

Even I'm a little bit apprehensive about everything opening up again, one because I'm not vaccinated (I'm 39) and secondly because like others I've not done much socially in the last 15 months or so. 

Got a couple of trips to the pub booked to ease me back in and hopefully I can do a few low key things in bigger crowds before I go to any Euro 2020 games or festivals later this summer. 🙂

I'm fine with all outdoor stuff - no anxiety at all about beer gardens or meeting in people's gardens. I don't even know how I'll feel about the indoor side of things - if prevalence is low still at that time then I won't be too worried. I've got it in my head that I'm playing a long game anyway so for me there's the April easing then the June ones, and nothing will really change for me in between. I'll do the minimum between the mid May and mid June dates as my small contribution to not spreading the virus so if the good stuff gets delayed I'll at least feel like I did what I can. Obviously bad for businesses if everyone does that, but I'm not that bothered about what May brings so there's no point me doing stuff I wouldn't normally want to just because I can, whereas loads are really excited about the indoor stuff

Edited April 14, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[steviewevie]

24 minutes ago, stuie said:

Yep! I’m not ready for the world yet. Might get one of these made! 
 

we got one of those (border terrier, not some reflective space jacket thing)

[steviewevie]

I'm not bothered at all about going back out to crowded areas etc., infact looking forward to it....but my missus is.

[steviewevie]

Denmark giving up on AZ altogether.