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When will this shit end?

Chrisp1986

By Chrisp1986,
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jparx
jparx

I think on a music festival message board it’s a legitimate question to ask. It doesn’t suggest the OP doesn’t give a shit about anything else. Of course there are much bigger things to be worrie

Toilet Duck
Toilet Duck

So...OX/AZ, blood clots, suspension of vaccinations, politics, vaccine hesitancy, convoluted data, PR problems, Brexit, EU procurement naivety, poor logistics, national identity...there’s an awful lot

Lycra
Lycra

A while since I/we posted because just like everyone else we get fed up of this shit. So just like to say..... For the first time since last March we are free of covid patients 😊

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Ozanne Grand Master

Ozanne

Posted
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3 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Their deaths do seem to be on the way up:
image.thumb.png.45c251572ef7c133d957408e2cbd2fc1.png

They referenced Chile in one of the recent press briefings, they’ll be keeping an eye on the situation I’m sure as they’ll be concerned it could happen to us. 

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Avalon_Fields Veteran

Avalon_Fields

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22 minutes ago, Havors said:

Is it just me or is David missing the big picture about vaccines? Its the reduction in deaths or serious illness that is the main point. As far as I know Chile has no wave of new deaths. 

Interesting how he dwells on Chile but doesn't mention Israel. As ever, experts are driven by their own agenda. 

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efcfanwirral Veteran

efcfanwirral

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, st dan said:

I can’t believe there will be people who have waited for 3/4 months for pubs to reopen, and will order a Carling as their first pint. 

No idea what I'll be having on Friday - not a place I've been before. They have great food reviews so I'm assuming there will be better pints than Carling. I'll be choosing my first first pint since September carefully though that's for sure! 

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balti-pie Mentor

balti-pie

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3 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

No idea what I'll be having on Friday - not a place I've been before. They have great food reviews so I'm assuming there will be better pints than Carling. I'll be choosing my first first pint since September carefully though that's for sure! 

what would it be ideally? i REALLY fancy talking about pints 🤣

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Crazyfool01 Grand Master

Crazyfool01

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7 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

No idea what I'll be having on Friday - not a place I've been before. They have great food reviews so I'm assuming there will be better pints than Carling. I'll be choosing my first first pint since September carefully though that's for sure! 

I could give a shit what my first pint will be tbh ... likely to be cider of some kind , when /i go back it will be the sounds of laughter that pull me in rather than a particular type of alcohol or brand 

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balti-pie Mentor

balti-pie

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as you cant really have cask beer anywhere but in a pub, i have to have a pint of cask for my first one back. But a lovely ice cold pint of good lager (gamma ray, staropramen, etc etc) would go down a treat as well. I've had six beers so far this calendar year and while i certainly dont drink a lot any more, im going to make sure that when i do drink, its really good stuff - i'm not wasting my time on John Smiths or Greene King slop - i'd rather drink lemonade than drink crap. But seeing my mates in a beer garden is going to be lovely!

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DeanoL Mentor

DeanoL

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On 4/10/2021 at 2:36 PM, Barry Fish said:

If your sole aim is the reduce infections then lockdowns clearly work.

But then you have to consider the harms of a collapsed economy, inactivity. Mental health,  largely closed health system creating a future backlog of issues.

I wouldn’t be surprised when we look back in years to come we come to the conclusion they did more harm than good.

You have to also factor in when we lose a mother of three to undiagnosed cancer vs an 85 year old nearing their end of life, there is an issue...  and the toll in this regards will be huge over the coming years.

 

On 4/10/2021 at 11:11 PM, Barry Fish said:

We actively choose to use our finite resources to save the lives of 80+ year olds over the lives of 30 year olds.  Its the end out come of the last 12 months.

This leads to a crass conversation but it's a conversation we should of had and will be having for years.

I don't think we got the balance entirely right to be frank.  

It's not just a case of people not coming forward.  Lots of people's treatment was canceled.  Some of those people have now died and will go on to die.

It's not a binary thing.  It's dumb to think it is.  It's all about balance and no way did we get that perfect 

I am not saying we should of left all the old people to die.  That would be sick..  its about balance...  I am saying when we all but stopped all over treatment we got the balance wrong.  Lots of people went without their cancer treatment for example.

You make some really good and interesting points in both of these posts, in terms of looking at these secondary impacts, but one thing that you're missing, and that everyone seems to miss, is what the secondary impacts would be of doing things differently.

So you don't have a lockdown, but people are still more wary about going out, so have reduced demand across many sectors, and probably don't a furlough scheme propping things up then (as nowhere has to actually shut down). That also creates some economic problems, some arguably worse - cease trading + furlough is a better option than even 30% reduction in demand for a lot of industries.

In the meantime, more people get sick - what do you it does to someone's mental health if they get COVID when forced to go to work and pass it on to a relative who dies? What mental health impact do you think all the additional deaths would have? 

Same with the treatment balance on the NHS - I kind of agree with you, but I doubt for the same reasons. I think people would have been a lot more cautious about actually having contacts (regardless of the rules) if they couldn't be certain of getting treatment for it. Plus a deadly disease being out there affects people's mental health a lot - a deadly disease that you can't even get treatment for would be far worse. Plus of course, we have a parallel private health system so we would see a further disparity in the deaths between the rich and poor. 

These are just examples of what could have happened. I'm sure you might disagree on some of the specifics, but my fundamental point is it's easy to look at the unforeseen side effects of lockdown, or way the NHS was managed, and say "well if we did things differently, more people might of died of COVID, but we wouldn't have had side effects A, B and C"

But doing things differently would also create side effects D, E and F.

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efcfanwirral Veteran

efcfanwirral

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

I could give a shit what my first pint will be tbh ... likely to be cider of some kind , when /i go back it will be the sounds of laughter that pull me in rather than a particular type of alcohol or brand 

Not sure there'll be much sounds of laughter for me this Friday lunch time in this sleepy town but I get the sentiment! 😂

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DeanoL Mentor

DeanoL

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On 4/11/2021 at 10:22 AM, Fuzzy Afro said:


It’s because when we are in a lockdown, the NHS cancels all non-urgent care and prioritises covid patients over non-covid patients whereas when we are not in a lockdown, other care goes ahead as normal.

I think you have that backwards. The entire argument for lockdowns was "prevent the NHS from being overwhelmed". Lockdown happens because the NHS no longer have the resources to care for anyone except COVID and emergency patients, and are close to not having the resources to do even that, hence the need to take action to reduce the number of COVID patients.

It's not that the government announce lockdown and the NHS go "oh, we have to only treat COVID patients now".

Honestly that one post of yours explains so much - that you have something like that so fundamentally backwards.

21 hours ago, JoeyT said:

Cheers scientists for the fucking obvious that two vaccinated people meeting up is of tiny risk.

Funny thing is there will be people whose logic has defied them to the extent that they need a scientist to spell this out 🤦‍♂️

The risk *to the two people meeting up*. No-one has ever argued otherwise. Again, you're also fundamentally missing the point. Once an individual is vaccinated meeting another vaccinated individual will be as safe for them as it will ever be.

When people say there is a risk, what they mean is that there are still unvaccinated people out there, and vaccinated people will have contact with them. So vaccinated person A can safely meet vaccinated person B at nearly zero risk to either of them. However it is possible for vaccinated person A to still have COVID, and pass it on to vaccinated person B. It's less likely than two unvaccinated people meeting, but not loads less likely (40-80% depending on the vaccine). Person B could then take the COVID caught from person A and pass it on to someone unvaccinated in their family. 

And while the individual chances of that happening are still low, there's potential for millions such meetings over the course of a single day, countrywide, so so of those are going to actually cause transmission. And so transmission rates will go up.

Honestly I'm finding some of the conversation on here increasingly bizarre of recent days. It's genuinely starting to feel like people are willfully trying to spread misinformation to win points in arguments, because I genuinely don't think, based on their posting history, that they haven't already worked this very basic stuff out.

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