When will this shit end?

[zahidf]

11 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

If I was offered AZ this morning I would take it without question.  I think the media are behaving really irresponsibly.  It's not news until a link is found.  It's just fear mongering until that point.

It's not just the media. Some of the 'experts' should also shut the hell up

 

[Zoo Music Girl]

1 minute ago, st dan said:

Yep definitely. It’s also their responsibility to raise any potential side effects, and then once the individual is aware of these then it is up to them to weigh up the risk vs reward. I do worry soon people will turn up to vaccination centres and start asking for ‘vaccine x’ rather than AZ, and the potential issues that may cause. 

Quite a few people asked me which one they would be getting when I was stewarding. Not sure if I imagined it but sure some looked a bit disappointed when I told them AZ! Have had people ask me where they can get Pfizer too - I don't know and they didn't leave when I couldn't tell them the answer- but it seems some people would have a preference already. To be honest, though, if I had a choice I'd also go for Pfizer as better efficacy so there's that.

It's a weird one though as I've had loads of other jabs in my lifetime and couldn't tell you the manufacturers or relative risks for any of them! We are all just saturated with info around this.

6 minutes ago, Simsy said:

Yeah, if the choice is blood clot or baby I'd go blood clot every time! But when people keep telling you if you're young and healthy you've got nothing to worry about from covid, you only need the jab to protect others it's not quite so simple.

I'm not anti vax and will definitely get it when offered, but it would be good to know why these extremely rare blood clots seem to be more likely in certain groups, and is there anything to reduce that risk (come off the pill, take a different jab if you've got family history of blood clots etc).

Yeah I agree with all this.

[Matt42]

My sister in the US has had her first jab today (early 30s).

She says the US has seriously upped its game- if you speak to your doctor and let them know that you want a vaccine they will book one in for you very quickly. Those with medical insurance through work have easy access too.

I really think the UK needs to make vaccines available to young people ASAP. That is what will take us out of COVID. Let the youth get the jab and you will seriously see the end of this virus.

[Ozanne]

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-first-dose-of-moderna-vaccine-given-in-uk-as-24-year-old-carer-elle-taylor-gets-jab-12268074
 

COVID-19: First dose of Moderna vaccine given in UK as 24-year-old carer Elle Taylor gets jab

[not worthy]

10 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

My sister in the US has had her first jab today (early 30s).

She says the US has seriously upped its game- if you speak to your doctor and let them know that you want a vaccine they will book one in for you very quickly. Those with medical insurance through work have easy access too.

I really think the UK needs to make vaccines available to young people ASAP. That is what will take us out of COVID. Let the youth get the jab and you will seriously see the end of this virus.

I think we are going as fast as we can when we have vaccines available and will be moving down through the lower age groups over the next couple of months however locally the mass vaccination centres closed last week until April 13th due to shortage of vaccines.

 

[st dan]

15 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

My sister in the US has had her first jab today (early 30s).

She says the US has seriously upped its game- if you speak to your doctor and let them know that you want a vaccine they will book one in for you very quickly. Those with medical insurance through work have easy access too.

I really think the UK needs to make vaccines available to young people ASAP. That is what will take us out of COVID. Let the youth get the jab and you will seriously see the end of this virus.

They’ve also had almost 1,500 deaths and 120,000 cases in the past two days alone. There is more to the vaccination rollout than just getting jabs in arms as fast as you can. Our clear and targeted approach has saved many lives, and I’m more than happy to wait longer for my turn given the supply issues we’re now experiencing, even if it would be nice to have access to it sooner. 

[Toilet Duck]

44 minutes ago, phimill said:

I've got a feeling that this is the case, some high risk "clotters" that are just about safe on the pill could have a more severe reaction, or speed up the clotting issue due to the OXAZ vaccine. Which also may happen naturally if they caught C-19, but due to the high levels on anti-bodies created via the vaccine the vaccine causes the more significant issue

 

@Toilet Duck- does that sound plausible at all?!

Howdy, it’s not really the same thing as clotting with the pill, nor is it the same as the clotting with Covid itself (both of which occur at a much higher rate and via a different mechanism), it’s a really rare, auto-immune response by the looks of it (which is why the platelet depletion is happening). Despite what some of the more aggressive posters on this thread think (who have no idea what they are on about and frankly some of their speculation is laughable!), it’s completely normal to investigate a signal like this in the roll out of any new medicinal product and to me, the chances of this being random now look slim (not impossible, but improbable...difficult to prove definitively though as it hard to control for, you mostly have to describe what you see in those it occurs in).

So, it looks like it’s a really really rare possibility and we need to account for that. Thankfully, we have other vaccines that use different technology that we can choose for those with a history (or family history) of auto-immune clotting events and now that we know it’s a really rare risk, we can add it to the information given to patients and watch out for it. If caught early, it can be treated and the nature of it dictates what the best treatment is (it looks like non-heparin anti-coagulants are the way to go, but we still need better information on what is happening in the patients this occurs in). The risk is not 30 in 18.1m though since it doesn’t happen in older people, the risk is 30 in however many of the at risk population in the UK were given AZ (so how many younger women got it...it’s still millions, and it’s still really rare, but despite what some here think, it’s not fear mongering, or anti-vax bollocks, it’s simply good science and good medicine to work this out and make sure we use all the available vaccines appropriately and safely).

[stuartbert two hats]

42 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

There's a link between covid and clotting.how often have you seen that discussed

It's a different kind of clot associated with the vaccine.

[Havors]

6 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

It's a different kind of clot associated with the vaccine.

Two quick points.

1) He doesn't say its the same clotting

2) Bold statement to make.  Have seen the data to suggest that covid patients have not had the same clotting? or vise versa

Edited April 7, 2021 by Havors

[Ommadawn]

10 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

Howdy, it’s not really the same thing as clotting with the pill, nor is it the same as the clotting with Covid itself (both of which occur at a much higher rate and via a different mechanism), it’s a really rare, auto-immune response by the looks of it (which is why the platelet depletion is happening). Despite what some of the more aggressive posters on this thread think (who have no idea what they are on about and frankly some of their speculation is laughable!), it’s completely normal to investigate a signal like this in the roll out of any new medicinal product and to me, the chances of this being random now look slim (not impossible, but improbable...difficult to prove definitively though as it hard to control for, you mostly have to describe what you see in those it occurs in).

So, it looks like it’s a really really rare possibility and we need to account for that. Thankfully, we have other vaccines that use different technology that we can choose for those with a history (or family history) of auto-immune clotting events and now that we know it’s a really rare risk, we can add it to the information given to patients and watch out for it. If caught early, it can be treated and the nature of it dictates what the best treatment is (it looks like non-heparin anti-coagulants are the way to go, but we still need better information on what is happening in the patients this occurs in). The risk is not 30 in 18.1m though since it doesn’t happen in older people, the risk is 30 in however many of the at risk population in the UK were given AZ (so how many younger women got it...it’s still millions, and it’s still really rare, but despite what some here think, it’s not fear mongering, or anti-vax bollocks, it’s simply good science and good medicine to work this out and make sure we use all the available vaccines appropriately and safely).

When I had my AV jab (about five weeks ago), I was asked if I was taking any anti blood clotting medication. Not sure if this is standard procedure or whether they were responding to early reports.

[Zoo Music Girl]

13 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

Howdy, it’s not really the same thing as clotting with the pill, nor is it the same as the clotting with Covid itself (both of which occur at a much higher rate and via a different mechanism), it’s a really rare, auto-immune response by the looks of it (which is why the platelet depletion is happening). Despite what some of the more aggressive posters on this thread think (who have no idea what they are on about and frankly some of their speculation is laughable!), it’s completely normal to investigate a signal like this in the roll out of any new medicinal product and to me, the chances of this being random now look slim (not impossible, but improbable...difficult to prove definitively though as it hard to control for, you mostly have to describe what you see in those it occurs in).

So, it looks like it’s a really really rare possibility and we need to account for that. Thankfully, we have other vaccines that use different technology that we can choose for those with a history (or family history) of auto-immune clotting events and now that we know it’s a really rare risk, we can add it to the information given to patients and watch out for it. If caught early, it can be treated and the nature of it dictates what the best treatment is (it looks like non-heparin anti-coagulants are the way to go, but we still need better information on what is happening in the patients this occurs in). The risk is not 30 in 18.1m though since it doesn’t happen in older people, the risk is 30 in however many of the at risk population in the UK were given AZ (so how many younger women got it...it’s still millions, and it’s still really rare, but despite what some here think, it’s not fear mongering, or anti-vax bollocks, it’s simply good science and good medicine to work this out and make sure we use all the available vaccines appropriately and safely).

Thanks for clarifying as ever!

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

6 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

When I had my AV jab (about five weeks ago), I was asked if I was taking any anti blood clotting medication. Not sure if this is standard procedure or whether they were responding to early reports.

I'm pretty sure this is one of the questions they ask even at the dentist or having a blood test. 

[eFestivals]

14 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

It's a different kind of clot associated with the vaccine.

No. The platelets thing is a normal clotting thing

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, Barry Fish said:

If I was offered AZ this morning I would take it without question.  I think the media are behaving really irresponsibly.  It's not news until a link is found.  It's just fear mongering until that point.

Rheres a. Lear link between covid and clotting just have a read about some of the longcocid stuff. 

[efcfanwirral]

 

10 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2021/04/06/children-have-lacked-discipline-order-lockdown-warns-gavin-williamson/

 

It's good that the massive issue inside our schools is being recognised.  Less good its being written  about by the very prick who has largely contributed to the issue and in a way that is putting blame everywhere but on himself.

Kids have hugely been let down and teachers are struggling like hell with the fall out. 

The kids aren't okay.  It's just not true when people say kids just adapt.  It's a lie 

 

10 hours ago, zahidf said:

Williamson can go fuck himself

When looking at things objectively and not through the lens of "well its just how things are", It still absolutely astounds me that a former fireplace salesman with no experience in education can be the minister for education. Same goes for any other ministers just put there for political reasons (I'm talking matt hancock there but I guess all of them) Do other countries operate like this? Or do they try to get experts in their fields to run these important parts of their country?

Edited April 7, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[DeanoL]

Have we actually tested everyone (or a large number of) people who have died of clots in the last year for COVID? Is that a thing we do?

[Havors]

12 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Have we actually tested everyone (or a large number of) people who have died of clots in the last year for COVID? Is that a thing we do?

Possibly? It would still be a covid death. There should be some record of comorbidity. Would be interesting to know. 

[Ozanne]

The important thing to remember as Toilet Duck says is that the MHRA investigating this issue with clotting in the AZ vaccine is perfectly normal and responsible for them to do. They need to investigate any potential issue just in case it’s anything more serious. 

[Euphoricape]

My wife had the az vaccine last week and is now panicking with all the blood clot talk on the news the last couple days. I've been reassuring her that the chances are so slim its not worth worrying about. She's 38 and healthy, surely if anything we're to happen it would happen in the next day or 2 following the jab? How do I convince her thats its safe to get the 2nd jab?! 

[Ozanne]

2 minutes ago, Euphoricape said:

My wife had the az vaccine last week and is now panicking with all the blood clot talk on the news the last couple days. I've been reassuring her that the chances are so slim its not worth worrying about. She's 38 and healthy, surely if anything we're to happen it would happen in the next day or 2 following the jab? How do I convince her thats its safe to get the 2nd jab?! 

To be honest there isn’t much you can do that it sounds like you aren’t doing already. Maybe highlight to her some of the articles that show the positives of the vaccine, the uptake of the vaccine against the amount of people that have had clots or both you of you speak to your GP about any concerns as they might be best placed from a medical perspective to advise. 

[Reckoner]

23 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

When looking at things objectively and not through the lens of "well its just how things are", It still absolutely astounds me that a former fireplace salesman with no experience in education can be the minister for education. Same goes for any other ministers just put there for political reasons (I'm talking matt hancock there but I guess all of them) Do other countries operate like this? Or do they try to get experts in their fields to run these important parts of their country?

We (Australia) have just moved our Attorney General to Science and Technology off the back of a historical rape situation (alleged, which he denies), and the Science and technology minister, a trained engineer has been shuffled to Home Affairs. Its an inherent flaw in the Westminster system that at least use to be offset by an independent civil/public service.

 

[gazzared]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

it's more than an ID card though, it's a biometric ID card...with your health records on there that can be used by private businesses to decide whether to serve you or not. Most people allowed in, but not all.

Iam sure they already know everything about me and I don't care if they do, just keep sending me the appropriate IPA Google adverts and I'll be happy 😊

[tigger123]

What happens to the young who’ve already had the one dose of AZ? Will they still be encouraged to get their second dose I wonder? 

[zahidf]

 

[Toilet Duck]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

No. The platelets thing is a normal clotting thing

Hi Neil, what’s apparently happening here is a bit different. Clotting with Covid has been recognised for a long time, many of the deaths have been as a result of disseminated intravascular coagulopathy, so much so that d-dimer tests are routinely used on admission to see if anti-coagulants are needed. However, the case reports of those that developed clotting issues post-vaccination point to an autoimmune cause (platelet depletion is not normal) and we are seeing an abundance of anti-platelet antibodies in these patients. This can happen in really rare cases when patients are treated with heparin and, more recently, non-heparin triggers have been identified. It’s entirely possible that as more cases are investigated that a different mechanism could be identified, but pathologically, it looks entirely different to the types of clotting issues seen in Covid patients themselves (which is exactly why regulators across Europe were worried when these cases started appearing). It’s still entirely manageable, but it does need to be managed. 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Toilet Duck
Typo!