When will this shit end?

[steviewevie]

I think we need to talk to these young people who are skeptical about taking the vaccine...put our virtual arms around them, talk to them like adults, listen to their concerns.....and then jab them..

[thewayiam]

1 minute ago, efcfanwirral said:

Well yes we have alternatives. That's the point- they aren't making a decision based on us not

Not technically no. But for everyone who can have it and refuses it, it then delays further the certification and thus large mass events/holidays taking place. So the general idea is. Thousands have died, thousands have had life stopped because of this and a vaccine followed by following the rules and certification goes to putting this right. So unless you have any medical reason not to have it, then do so in my book. I'm not going to call anyone who doesn't etc out for it. But the only person's holiday, outgoing festival trip etc etc you're delaying is your own.

[Mr.Tease]

1 hour ago, crazyfool1 said:

all my 40s friends are taking it .... and I dont actually know anyone who has chosen not to take it yet .... but it hasnt got down to the uni students yet ... and I work with quite a lot that age ... will be interesting to see the take-up ,  my concerns are over people  that are very vocal when they have had a jab reaction and that influencing some of the younger age not to take it ... hopefully they will take it based on some others their age having been floored by it ... 

My Aunt who's Egyptian had the chance of getting the vaccine there last week (wasn't expecting she'd get the chance to for ages), but got to the centre and decided not to have it- infuriating! but my family is notoriously stubborn, so it's pointless arguing! 

Seems to be a generational divide there- my cousins are all happy to have it (but unlikely to be offered it for a long long time) and want their parents to get it, but a) it's not readily available, and b) the parents are suspicious of it and think it's not safe (despite being in the high risk category on several fronts). To be fair there was a scandal in Egypt several decades ago whereby they re-used syringes during medical injections/treatments in the 50s-80s and ended up mass spreading Hepatitis C (it still has one of the highest prevalence rates of hep C in the world), so that's probably fuelling the suspicion among older people.

We're really fortunate here to have the choice and availability of the vaccines, a lot of countries are going to be waiting a long, long time, and likely will have a lot of waves of Covid plus economic devastation before then. Saps my empathy for people here who think having to wait a few more weeks to go to the pub is hardship.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Mr.Tease

[efcfanwirral]

1 minute ago, thewayiam said:

Not technically no. But for everyone who can have it and refuses it, it then delays further the certification and thus large mass events/holidays taking place. So the general idea is. Thousands have died, thousands have had life stopped because of this and a vaccine followed by following the rules and certification goes to putting this right. So unless you have any medical reason not to have it, then do so in my book. I'm not going to call anyone who doesn't etc out for it. But the only person's holiday, outgoing festival trip etc etc you're delaying is your own.

Sorry I meant the MHRA - I'll change that one! 

I think its OK to have worries as long as we just get it like you say 

[Suprefan]

 

[HalfAnIdiot]

18 minutes ago, JBarbour said:

So the young and healthy should just take the chance? Its unlikely/slim chance of long term side effects but we dont have a crystal ball, thats in the future. Do your own research, but there are consequences to your actions, so we'll peer-pressure you to have it in our time-frame for the "greater-good" and wider society.   

You see what I mean about being reluctant or scared of taking the vaccine but there is society wide peer pressure.   

You really can't get out of making an important choice here. Whichever way you go will have consequences. 

For me I chose to have the vaccine. It does hugely benefit society and is more likely to benefit me than to harm me. 

[stuartbert two hats]

18 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

So, there isn’t a straight answer to much of that! Personally, I don’t agree with mandatory vaccination for the most part (I do agree with mandatory vaccination in healthcare, but not with emergency use vaccines). I expect uptake to drop off significantly in younger age groups, however, if some form of health certification becomes required for international travel, it may change some minds. Is that coercion? Or is it countries protecting themselves from importing infection while they are still not fully protected? (I can’t answer that!).
 

The data on the longevity of immunity following natural infection suggests that in terms of picking up the virus, there’s probably some protection for 6-8 months and likely cellular immunity that would protect from more severe disease for a good bit longer than that. But the vaccines induce a far greater immune response with much stronger sterilising immunity. If we don’t vaccinate kids, then the virus stays with us, becomes a disease of early childhood and they probably catch it seasonally (with hopefully the same range of symptoms we currently see, ie not much). Should this also be the approach in under 30s? There’s certainly an argument in favour of it, and indeed, this cohort has already had a greater number of infections. One of the arguments against this is the emergence of variants, but I’ve yet to see a nightmare variant scenario. The other argument against this is that we now have solid evidence that the vaccines suppress transmission. So, if enough people are vaccinated, the virus could actually be eliminated. Not eradicated (ie gone forever), but gone most of the time with flare-ups here and there from time to time. This is a fairly desirable scenario and one that can’t be achieved by letting the virus seasonally circulate in extremely low risk populations. 
 

What we don’t know is how long the immunity from natural infection itself lasts or whether we will forever be chasing our tails if we do pursue elimination. My own expectation is that the virus will circulate seasonally, younger people will catch it and get a cold (or nothing) most of the time, older people will get regular vaccinations (maybe seasonally, maybe longer than that, we still don’t know). Until the world settles into this, I expect some form of vaccine cert, positive antibody test or negative antigen test to be required for travel (I think it’s almost pointless at this stage for much else, it was needed last year, not now, or at least, it has some merit in the short term til the vaccination campaign is completed, but after that, not so much)...

On the "emergency use" side of things, what's the bar the vaccines need to clear before they're no longer considered emergency use?  Is it just more time?  More detailed trials?  Something else?

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

26 minutes ago, scattered_screens said:

You and many others have no real grasp about the history of vaccines. The human body doesn't work like many think it does, 5 years wont pass and then people will start obtaining numerous illnesses or bodily function failures. This isn't the first nor last vaccination that's been rolled out, we've given out much more sceptical vaccines in a much less advanced society without any dodgy affects in the past. The first flu jab didn't mess anyone up for example.

Your right I don't, so why isn't anyone in any actual position of influence educating people who are uneasy about it? 

@Toilet Duck an actual scientist explains a lot and it's all good for thought bit he is still just a bloke on the internet, it's hardly a structure campaign from the science community - it shouldn't be Boris telling people to have a vaccine or not it should be knowledgeable folk. 

Not doing you down there @Toilet Duck your input is invaluable but the whole world isn't reading this thread there are millions with concerns. 

[sjseabass]

1 minute ago, JBarbour said:

I was using that as an example as a recent vaccine role out.

Yes, but you’re using 0.0006% for one thing and 1 in 55,000 for another, making it seem like the risks are different (conveniently in the direction that helps your argument) when they’re actually pretty similar.

[JBarbour]

Just now, theevilfridge said:

Yes, but you’re using 0.0006% for one thing and 1 in 55,000 for another, making it seem like the risks are different (conveniently in the direction that helps your argument) when they’re actually pretty similar.

I copied and paste "1 in 55,000" from an article, soz. 

[steviewevie]

Tory libtards not happy with boris.

 

[Leyrulion]

40 minutes ago, Billy Corgan's Ego said:

MHRA considering stopping AZ jab in younger people. Not great news is this transpires 

To be expected I think. 

Which, given this thread today and posts by @JBarbour I should point out is entirely reasonable and covers a lot of the concerns they've been talking about.

Vaccine is actively monitored and the risks looked at and the protocol adjusted accordingly. 

 

The MHRA do the risk monitoring which is why I think it's unhelpful for non experts to be populating that space with pseudo data analysis.

[steviewevie]

Just now, Leyrulion said:

To be expected I think. 

Which, given this thread today and posts by @JBarbour I should point out is entirely reasonable and covers a lot of the concerns they've been talking about.

Vaccine is actively monitored and the risks looked at and the protocol adjusted accordingly. 

 

The MHRA do the risk monitoring which is why I think it's unhelpful for non experts to be populating that space with pseudo data analysis.

MHRA playing catchup.

[JoeyT]

 

[efcfanwirral]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

MHRA playing catchup.

It'll be spun as EU's fault of course 

[sjseabass]

6 minutes ago, JBarbour said:

I copied and paste "1 in 55,000" from an article, soz. 

So does it affect your thinking, knowing that this side effect in another vaccine you keep bringing up isn’t much more likely than dying of Covid if you catch it?

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

 

depends if they want to see out their life on a ventilator I guess.

[Toilet Duck]

12 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

On the "emergency use" side of things, what's the bar the vaccines need to clear before they're no longer considered emergency use?  Is it just more time?  More detailed trials?  Something else?

Yep, just more data from wider use. Should be fully approved in about a year or so. 

[Toilet Duck]

13 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Your right I don't, so why isn't anyone in any actual position of influence educating people who are uneasy about it? 

@Toilet Duck an actual scientist explains a lot and it's all good for thought bit he is still just a bloke on the internet, it's hardly a structure campaign from the science community - it shouldn't be Boris telling people to have a vaccine or not it should be knowledgeable folk. 

Not doing you down there @Toilet Duck your input is invaluable but the whole world isn't reading this thread there are millions with concerns. 

No offence taken, I actually agree with you and broader communication from the scientific and medical community is required (not just about this, about everything we do!)...

[thewayiam]

11 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Sorry I meant the MHRA - I'll change that one! 

I think its OK to have worries as long as we just get it like you say 

It's kind of a case of you have it with caution or you don't have it and stay put where you are. Many countries are going to ask for it automatically and as said places to enter will do. Do we really want to be going on holiday and still providing a negative test within 24 hours etc rather than just having the document from the vaccine that says yes?

It holds the person up, it creates a period of unpaid leave from work etc depending where you work. It creates self isolate periods in places before you can enjoy/return isolation again unpaid. The drama caused by not having it is heavily outweighed in positives by having it.

[JBarbour]

Just now, theevilfridge said:

So does it affect your thinking, knowing that this side effect in another vaccine you keep bringing up isn’t much more likely than dying of Covid if you catch it?

No because the 1 in 55,000 got just 120k compensation and considering it impacts your work and enjoyment of life. Yes I know that's a different vaccine and different circumstances but it's not as if we can predict the future. 

My risk of getting covid is so slim, its a difficult decision for me to get a jab when there are unknowns. As I previously said I may get it when I'm offered it in a few months or I may need more time to feel comfortable with the decision. 

[efcfanwirral]

4 minutes ago, thewayiam said:

It's kind of a case of you have it with caution or you don't have it and stay put where you are. Many countries are going to ask for it automatically and as said places to enter will do. Do we really want to be going on holiday and still providing a negative test within 24 hours etc rather than just having the document from the vaccine that says yes?

It holds the person up, it creates a period of unpaid leave from work etc depending where you work. It creates self isolate periods in places before you can enjoy/return isolation again unpaid. The drama caused by not having it is heavily outweighed in positives by having it.

I'm taking it to get my life back and accepting the risks dont worry

[eFestivals]

33 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

True though could fall in the middle. Equally imagine what would happen if they did a few million under 40s with it and it was proved to be true whkke the rollout was ongoing 

Plesestfu you're making some of the worst posts in events history.and you have some serious competition on that.

[efcfanwirral]

1 minute ago, JBarbour said:

No because the 1 in 55,000 got just 120k compensation and considering it impacts your work and enjoyment of life. Yes I know that's a different vaccine and different circumstances but it's not as if we can predict the future. 

My risk of getting covid is so slim, its a difficult decision for me to get a jab when there are unknowns. As I previously said I may get it when I'm offered it in a few months or I may need more time to feel comfortable with the decision. 

You'll be coerced into it eventually. So we might as well just save that and just take it 

[thewayiam]

18 minutes ago, Suprefan said:

 

If this stays true and the lack of supply at the minute is concerning then that's 2021 gone. That's right before Reading weekend and then there is the 3 week settle period and I'm way above by over 10 years the standard age for most festivals that happen between early July and end of August. Going by omni now as well, my first dose has been delayed by up to 3.5 weeks and my 2nd a week to week and a half.